Effing cancer is an effing effer, frankly
Discussion
ScotHill said:
Skimming the last few pages has been very grounding. :-(
A relative died of lung cancer this year, had been detected a year or two ago, treated and it retreated, but then came back and didn't respond to treatment. Relative obviously didn't want to end his days connected to tubes in a hospital and ended his days at home, maybe suffered badly for 3-4 days but I think that was preferable to him than a long drawn out affair in an isolated environment, he'd been in hospital a few times before for a few weeks at a time and hated it even when he was still reasonably healthy.
His partner thinks that some of the treatment they did over the few years may have actually shortened his life (by as much as five years they thought, he was early 80s and still very present and mobile last year) by putting him in a much weaker position to fight against anything. Is that reasonable, could treatment actually make things much worse? Think it was chemo, not radiotherapy.
Early 80’s is a good age, and he chose his own way to go, which is more than many get.A relative died of lung cancer this year, had been detected a year or two ago, treated and it retreated, but then came back and didn't respond to treatment. Relative obviously didn't want to end his days connected to tubes in a hospital and ended his days at home, maybe suffered badly for 3-4 days but I think that was preferable to him than a long drawn out affair in an isolated environment, he'd been in hospital a few times before for a few weeks at a time and hated it even when he was still reasonably healthy.
His partner thinks that some of the treatment they did over the few years may have actually shortened his life (by as much as five years they thought, he was early 80s and still very present and mobile last year) by putting him in a much weaker position to fight against anything. Is that reasonable, could treatment actually make things much worse? Think it was chemo, not radiotherapy.
Treatment isn’t simple, and doesn’t work the same for everyone - is there really any gain in second guessing what might have been after his passing?
My dad died of prostate cancer. Do I wish he had been less in denial and had taken a more proactive approach to treatment - of course I do, but that was how the cards fell.
My dad (late 70's) is now receiving palliative care for his cancer and he now has care at home in place as he doesn't want to die in a hospice. He's bed bound and got no quality of life and even letting nature takes its course I'd be surprised if he sees in the new year. He's ready to go now and it's just tortuous for my mum seeing him get worse every day.
We've had a "just in case" prescription at home now, so if anyone has experience of this situation, if the out reach nurse has to administer pain killers / sedative to make him more comfortable, can they compassionately administer more than is strictly necessary. I know legally they can't, but what's the real world experience of this?
We've had a "just in case" prescription at home now, so if anyone has experience of this situation, if the out reach nurse has to administer pain killers / sedative to make him more comfortable, can they compassionately administer more than is strictly necessary. I know legally they can't, but what's the real world experience of this?
DE1975 said:
My dad (late 70's) is now receiving palliative care for his cancer and he now has care at home in place as he doesn't want to die in a hospice. He's bed bound and got no quality of life and even letting nature takes its course I'd be surprised if he sees in the new year. He's ready to go now and it's just tortuous for my mum seeing him get worse every day.
We've had a "just in case" prescription at home now, so if anyone has experience of this situation, if the out reach nurse has to administer pain killers / sedative to make him more comfortable, can they compassionately administer more than is strictly necessary. I know legally they can't, but what's the real world experience of this?
Sorry to hear you're in this situation, if the nursing team think hes needing frequent painkillers as its got to that point its likely they would arrange to have a driver inserted which would give a continuous dosing & need them to refill every 24 hours. I'm not sure what the process is for having a driver inserted (hospital/Drs house call/nursing team) as in my case they came home with it from the hospital. 6 years on this year We've had a "just in case" prescription at home now, so if anyone has experience of this situation, if the out reach nurse has to administer pain killers / sedative to make him more comfortable, can they compassionately administer more than is strictly necessary. I know legally they can't, but what's the real world experience of this?
DE1975 said:
My dad (late 70's) is now receiving palliative care for his cancer and he now has care at home in place as he doesn't want to die in a hospice. He's bed bound and got no quality of life and even letting nature takes its course I'd be surprised if he sees in the new year. He's ready to go now and it's just tortuous for my mum seeing him get worse every day.
We've had a "just in case" prescription at home now, so if anyone has experience of this situation, if the out reach nurse has to administer pain killers / sedative to make him more comfortable, can they compassionately administer more than is strictly necessary. I know legally they can't, but what's the real world experience of this?
After a very distressing couple of days, my dad was fitted with a morphine pump, and the nurse administered a dose to make him comfortable.We've had a "just in case" prescription at home now, so if anyone has experience of this situation, if the out reach nurse has to administer pain killers / sedative to make him more comfortable, can they compassionately administer more than is strictly necessary. I know legally they can't, but what's the real world experience of this?
He gave me a little wave and then fell asleep, and died a few hours later.
loafer123 said:
DE1975 said:
My dad (late 70's) is now receiving palliative care for his cancer and he now has care at home in place as he doesn't want to die in a hospice. He's bed bound and got no quality of life and even letting nature takes its course I'd be surprised if he sees in the new year. He's ready to go now and it's just tortuous for my mum seeing him get worse every day.
We've had a "just in case" prescription at home now, so if anyone has experience of this situation, if the out reach nurse has to administer pain killers / sedative to make him more comfortable, can they compassionately administer more than is strictly necessary. I know legally they can't, but what's the real world experience of this?
After a very distressing couple of days, my dad was fitted with a morphine pump, and the nurse administered a dose to make him comfortable.We've had a "just in case" prescription at home now, so if anyone has experience of this situation, if the out reach nurse has to administer pain killers / sedative to make him more comfortable, can they compassionately administer more than is strictly necessary. I know legally they can't, but what's the real world experience of this?
He gave me a little wave and then fell asleep, and died a few hours later.
He will have probably been comfortable, happy and pain-free as he passed.
Louis Balfour said:
Sorry to hear that.
He will have probably been comfortable, happy and pain-free as he passed.
Thanks, Paul.He will have probably been comfortable, happy and pain-free as he passed.
It was very distressing, but a few years ago now.
What used to be the Liverpool Care Pathway was, in my view, a great enabler to allow dignified death.
Even though it was abolished due to media pressure, I hope (and suspect) that it remains in use in effect by merciful medical professionals.
loafer123 said:
After a very distressing couple of days, my dad was fitted with a morphine pump, and the nurse administered a dose to make him comfortable.
He gave me a little wave and then fell asleep, and died a few hours later.
Thanks for posting this. My Mum is going through it at the moment and it is reassuring to read this. The unknown is horrible and the last thing anyone wants is for them to suffer.He gave me a little wave and then fell asleep, and died a few hours later.
I have experienced the same many years ago with my father, 12 years ago.
With my father the cancer got in his bones at the end and caused calcium in his blood which causes dehydration. This was noticeable immediately as he became tired and confussed very quick onset. He was taken to hopsital and given an IV which brought him round. But it was a mistake as it just made him more aware of his discomfort and scared. A choice was made to go home on his request. I regret the hospital visit and the IV.
We had a volunteer Marie Curie nurse at home, a doctor visited and prescribed what I think was morphine. She explained how it may shorten his life but make it more comfortable. He died the following morning.
The Marie Curie nurse was also there to call the coroner & funeral home. Its amazing what they do Marie Curie nurses, a retired old ex nurse. She also had the Doctor prescribe other drugs that help, drugs that stop the patient having spit build up as swallowing stops happening. She was so much help.
As DE1975 and loafer123 describes it is how I perceived it. I think it’s just not said openly or discussed publicly.
It not really something I have shared with others as unless you experience it, I doubt it something you could imagine. Its long after the patient is aware or able to request pain medication themselves.
Anyway, I have a monthly direct debit to Marie Curie for longer than any other direct debit, half my adult life it’s been running.
Really sorry for your loss loafer123.
Given the above I have in the last year also started the same journey with my mother. Stage 4 bowl cancer, very small in the bowl. Bowl tumour so small it can’t be seen on a CT, but large tumours in her liver. Unfortunately, on first CT they were mistaken for liver abscess, she endured an unnecessary week in hospital on direct to liver anti biotics before getting the correct diagnoses.
I think its worse as my father was the same secondaries in the liver, never found the primary. He didn’t make it very long.
My mother has just completed full treatment of chemo. Liver tumours halted growing, but lymph nodes around stomach area have grown. So starting immunotherapy for Baff mutation cancer markers. Its a new treatment drug combination I think, new in last two years.
She was very very ill when it started, lost weight and even had a fever. But she has responded well to chemo and felt a lot better. The cancer markers they test for in the blood for bowl cancer have dropped from 35 to 9 currently. I have read that under 10 is very good. But the hospital consider the chemo a failure because it hasn’t shrunk the liver tumours. I think there forgetting how bad she was when first diagnosed, they sent us home with the number for the hospice back then!
Sorry for the badly written essay & over share, I’ve been meaning to post in the thread a while as reading this thread has been helpful for me. I’m an only child and with my previous experience with my father, its been really hard as we know what’s coming and I’m on my own dealing with it. Ive had to move into my mums small flat, carer duty.
With my father the cancer got in his bones at the end and caused calcium in his blood which causes dehydration. This was noticeable immediately as he became tired and confussed very quick onset. He was taken to hopsital and given an IV which brought him round. But it was a mistake as it just made him more aware of his discomfort and scared. A choice was made to go home on his request. I regret the hospital visit and the IV.
We had a volunteer Marie Curie nurse at home, a doctor visited and prescribed what I think was morphine. She explained how it may shorten his life but make it more comfortable. He died the following morning.
The Marie Curie nurse was also there to call the coroner & funeral home. Its amazing what they do Marie Curie nurses, a retired old ex nurse. She also had the Doctor prescribe other drugs that help, drugs that stop the patient having spit build up as swallowing stops happening. She was so much help.
As DE1975 and loafer123 describes it is how I perceived it. I think it’s just not said openly or discussed publicly.
It not really something I have shared with others as unless you experience it, I doubt it something you could imagine. Its long after the patient is aware or able to request pain medication themselves.
Anyway, I have a monthly direct debit to Marie Curie for longer than any other direct debit, half my adult life it’s been running.
Really sorry for your loss loafer123.
Given the above I have in the last year also started the same journey with my mother. Stage 4 bowl cancer, very small in the bowl. Bowl tumour so small it can’t be seen on a CT, but large tumours in her liver. Unfortunately, on first CT they were mistaken for liver abscess, she endured an unnecessary week in hospital on direct to liver anti biotics before getting the correct diagnoses.
I think its worse as my father was the same secondaries in the liver, never found the primary. He didn’t make it very long.
My mother has just completed full treatment of chemo. Liver tumours halted growing, but lymph nodes around stomach area have grown. So starting immunotherapy for Baff mutation cancer markers. Its a new treatment drug combination I think, new in last two years.
She was very very ill when it started, lost weight and even had a fever. But she has responded well to chemo and felt a lot better. The cancer markers they test for in the blood for bowl cancer have dropped from 35 to 9 currently. I have read that under 10 is very good. But the hospital consider the chemo a failure because it hasn’t shrunk the liver tumours. I think there forgetting how bad she was when first diagnosed, they sent us home with the number for the hospice back then!
Sorry for the badly written essay & over share, I’ve been meaning to post in the thread a while as reading this thread has been helpful for me. I’m an only child and with my previous experience with my father, its been really hard as we know what’s coming and I’m on my own dealing with it. Ive had to move into my mums small flat, carer duty.
Edited by Mortgage_tom on Sunday 19th December 17:24
Armitage.Shanks said:
As I occasionally dip into the 'Finance' threads where the aim is to make as much money you can for the future (and I'll admit to being one of those in the past), my perspective has totally changed into trying to enjoy life as much as I can having retired early. The value is in the memories and experiences not how much money you leave in the bank. Sadly you can't 'buy' good health.
Couple of comments on this. A lot of people on the Finance threads are trying to make as much money as possible in order to retire early, just as you have done, and I have done. Also, regarding not being able to buy good health, I don't think that's true in the UK in 2021. Firstly, a two tier health system allows those with money to access care quicker. Also, there's a direct correlation between poverty and poor health/life expectancy. A man living in Kensington will live, on average, 30 years longer that a man living in Govan.
But of course, you need a bit of luck also. A wealthy friend of mine in his 50s is currently undergoing cancer treatment, and it's not going brilliantly.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Couple of comments on this. A lot of people on the Finance threads are trying to make as much money as possible in order to retire early, just as you have done, and I have done.
Also, regarding not being able to buy good health, I don't think that's true in the UK in 2021. Firstly, a two tier health system allows those with money to access care quicker. Also, there's a direct correlation between poverty and poor health/life expectancy. A man living in Kensington will live, on average, 30 years longer that a man living in Govan.
But of course, you need a bit of luck also. A wealthy friend of mine in his 50s is currently undergoing cancer treatment, and it's not going brilliantly.
That's a rather insensitive post for this thread I think, no amount of money or healthcare insurance will buy you better or even equal cancer treatment to that provided by the NHS in my opinion.Also, regarding not being able to buy good health, I don't think that's true in the UK in 2021. Firstly, a two tier health system allows those with money to access care quicker. Also, there's a direct correlation between poverty and poor health/life expectancy. A man living in Kensington will live, on average, 30 years longer that a man living in Govan.
But of course, you need a bit of luck also. A wealthy friend of mine in his 50s is currently undergoing cancer treatment, and it's not going brilliantly.
oakdale said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Couple of comments on this. A lot of people on the Finance threads are trying to make as much money as possible in order to retire early, just as you have done, and I have done.
Also, regarding not being able to buy good health, I don't think that's true in the UK in 2021. Firstly, a two tier health system allows those with money to access care quicker. Also, there's a direct correlation between poverty and poor health/life expectancy. A man living in Kensington will live, on average, 30 years longer that a man living in Govan.
But of course, you need a bit of luck also. A wealthy friend of mine in his 50s is currently undergoing cancer treatment, and it's not going brilliantly.
That's a rather insensitive post for this thread I think, no amount of money or healthcare insurance will buy you better or even equal cancer treatment to that provided by the NHS in my opinion.Also, regarding not being able to buy good health, I don't think that's true in the UK in 2021. Firstly, a two tier health system allows those with money to access care quicker. Also, there's a direct correlation between poverty and poor health/life expectancy. A man living in Kensington will live, on average, 30 years longer that a man living in Govan.
But of course, you need a bit of luck also. A wealthy friend of mine in his 50s is currently undergoing cancer treatment, and it's not going brilliantly.
Louis Balfour said:
oakdale said:
That's a rather insensitive post for this thread I think, no amount of money or healthcare insurance will buy you better or even equal cancer treatment to that provided by the NHS in my opinion.
That might be your opinion. It's wrong, however.I think that hits the nail on the head Twig. Treatment for cancer on the NHS is I think pretty fantastic.
However we had a friend earlier this year who found a lump in her breast. With her private cover she was seen ridiculously quickly, biopsy etc all completed. and sent on for chemo.
She started her treatment coincidentally on the same day that the NHS appointment would have been for initial investigations.
One of the many side effects of the whole covid situation I suspect.
However likely not the thread for ongoing discussions.
However we had a friend earlier this year who found a lump in her breast. With her private cover she was seen ridiculously quickly, biopsy etc all completed. and sent on for chemo.
She started her treatment coincidentally on the same day that the NHS appointment would have been for initial investigations.
One of the many side effects of the whole covid situation I suspect.
However likely not the thread for ongoing discussions.
Sadly seeing this thread pop up this morning has had a terrible coincidence.
Last night a good friend in work messaged me that he was urgently driving up to North Scotland from Wales as his Dad was very poorly (stage 4).
He’s just called he had a few hours with his Dad before he passed away. So so sad.
Last night a good friend in work messaged me that he was urgently driving up to North Scotland from Wales as his Dad was very poorly (stage 4).
He’s just called he had a few hours with his Dad before he passed away. So so sad.
Welshbeef said:
Sadly seeing this thread pop up this morning has had a terrible coincidence.
Last night a good friend in work messaged me that he was urgently driving up to North Scotland from Wales as his Dad was very poorly (stage 4).
He’s just called he had a few hours with his Dad before he passed away. So so sad.
Sorry to hear this . Last night a good friend in work messaged me that he was urgently driving up to North Scotland from Wales as his Dad was very poorly (stage 4).
He’s just called he had a few hours with his Dad before he passed away. So so sad.
Had his dad lived long from first diagnosis?
Lost a friend this year aged 51, was diagnosed 3 years back .
Hoping your friends dad wasn’t similar age ?
oakdale said:
That's a rather insensitive post for this thread I think, no amount of money or healthcare insurance will buy you better or even equal cancer treatment to that provided by the NHS in my opinion.
Treatment wise maybe not but especially now with all that’s going on you’ll get seen faster . I found I couldnt get my mum in for a CT any quicker by going private. Plenty of private CT's around, cost about £1k depending on area. NHS got us an appointment a day after I could have got one at a private facility. Even with the back log in the xray/CT scan departments brought on by covid.
Cancer is the one part of the NHS that moves very quickly once suspected.
I'd be intrested once Im a bit older getting an anual private scan, given my family history. Although I dont think its that simple as they need to know where to look.
Cancer is the one part of the NHS that moves very quickly once suspected.
I'd be intrested once Im a bit older getting an anual private scan, given my family history. Although I dont think its that simple as they need to know where to look.
GT3Manthey said:
Welshbeef said:
Sadly seeing this thread pop up this morning has had a terrible coincidence.
Last night a good friend in work messaged me that he was urgently driving up to North Scotland from Wales as his Dad was very poorly (stage 4).
He’s just called he had a few hours with his Dad before he passed away. So so sad.
Sorry to hear this . Last night a good friend in work messaged me that he was urgently driving up to North Scotland from Wales as his Dad was very poorly (stage 4).
He’s just called he had a few hours with his Dad before he passed away. So so sad.
Had his dad lived long from first diagnosis?
Lost a friend this year aged 51, was diagnosed 3 years back .
Hoping your friends dad wasn’t similar age ?
Apparently it was all looking good but then early autumn on a check up and unexpectedly for the family the news was it’s come back and is not treatable and to expect 6 months
. He was in his 70’s
Mortgage_tom said:
I found I couldnt get my mum in for a CT any quicker by going private. Plenty of private CT's around, cost about £1k depending on area. NHS got us an appointment a day after I could have got one at a private facility. Even with the back log in the xray/CT scan departments brought on by covid.
Cancer is the one part of the NHS that moves very quickly once suspected.
I'd be intrested once Im a bit older getting an anual private scan, given my family history. Although I dont think its that simple as they need to know where to look.
There are risks associated with CT scans, the main one being.........cancer.Cancer is the one part of the NHS that moves very quickly once suspected.
I'd be intrested once Im a bit older getting an anual private scan, given my family history. Although I dont think its that simple as they need to know where to look.
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