What training are you doing/have you done today? Vol.2
Discussion
Interesting about the isolation work and that is what I was doing, ok was bench pressing but was wary of squats, deadlifts etc and sort of didnt see the point, I think when starting out (which I still am) you think I want to make this specific muscle bigger and you see the experienced guys doing all these exercises, and it isnt that they arent applicable but they just arent quite as beneficial as doing the compound lifts.
I dont think I am going out on a limb here, but the consensus seems to be do those (Deads, Squats, Row, OHP and Bench) as the foundation and the rest is the add on, not the other way round, but it is tempting to do endless curls and flys etc, as what most blokes want is big chest and arm muscles, the compounds dont seem specific or targeted enough to achieve that when you are starting out.
So, you get newbies doing stuff that bodybuilders use to target specific muscles, usually with poor form, like the fairly slight chap I saw curling 20 kilo dumbells the other day who was swinging them like he was going to launch them, not sure what he was isolating.
The stronglifts thing is proving to be a bit of a revelation to me, scale weight has gone up a bit but jeans fitting the same/better, hmm, what could that be ?
I dont think I am going out on a limb here, but the consensus seems to be do those (Deads, Squats, Row, OHP and Bench) as the foundation and the rest is the add on, not the other way round, but it is tempting to do endless curls and flys etc, as what most blokes want is big chest and arm muscles, the compounds dont seem specific or targeted enough to achieve that when you are starting out.
So, you get newbies doing stuff that bodybuilders use to target specific muscles, usually with poor form, like the fairly slight chap I saw curling 20 kilo dumbells the other day who was swinging them like he was going to launch them, not sure what he was isolating.
The stronglifts thing is proving to be a bit of a revelation to me, scale weight has gone up a bit but jeans fitting the same/better, hmm, what could that be ?
Today>
Squat: 2x 240kg, 1,1 x 240kg
Bench: 3x3x 167.5kg
Dead: 1x 267.5kg
Felt ill all day yesterday, missed a few meals, and today was terrible......should have been 3x3 on the squat, and 3 singles on the dead. No confidence on the squat, and didn't even bother with the last two deadlifts. Everything felt very heavy, but oddly looked decent on playback- TBH, I could have got the reps, but I just didn't push, mostly because I simply just didn't want to.
Bench was good though.
And I'm up to 107kg, looking stacked
www.instagram.com/p/BZVVImOj0V7/?
Squat: 2x 240kg, 1,1 x 240kg
Bench: 3x3x 167.5kg
Dead: 1x 267.5kg
Felt ill all day yesterday, missed a few meals, and today was terrible......should have been 3x3 on the squat, and 3 singles on the dead. No confidence on the squat, and didn't even bother with the last two deadlifts. Everything felt very heavy, but oddly looked decent on playback- TBH, I could have got the reps, but I just didn't push, mostly because I simply just didn't want to.
Bench was good though.
And I'm up to 107kg, looking stacked
www.instagram.com/p/BZVVImOj0V7/?didelydoo said:
Today>
Squat: 2x 240kg, 1,1 x 240kg
Bench: 3x3x 167.5kg
Dead: 1x 267.5kg
Felt ill all day yesterday, missed a few meals, and today was terrible......should have been 3x3 on the squat, and 3 singles on the dead. No confidence on the squat, and didn't even bother with the last two deadlifts. Everything felt very heavy, but oddly looked decent on playback- TBH, I could have got the reps, but I just didn't push, mostly because I simply just didn't want to.
Bench was good though.
And I'm up to 107kg, looking stackedwww.instagram.com/p/BZVVImOj0V7/?
Looking great Ben. Some real 3D on the delts. When's the full on cut coming? Squat: 2x 240kg, 1,1 x 240kg
Bench: 3x3x 167.5kg
Dead: 1x 267.5kg
Felt ill all day yesterday, missed a few meals, and today was terrible......should have been 3x3 on the squat, and 3 singles on the dead. No confidence on the squat, and didn't even bother with the last two deadlifts. Everything felt very heavy, but oddly looked decent on playback- TBH, I could have got the reps, but I just didn't push, mostly because I simply just didn't want to.
Bench was good though.
And I'm up to 107kg, looking stacked
www.instagram.com/p/BZVVImOj0V7/?I feel guilty, skipped the gym yesterday, went out for lunch with 2 pints. Will have to smash it today
J4CKO said:
Interesting about the isolation work and that is what I was doing, ok was bench pressing but was wary of squats, deadlifts etc and sort of didnt see the point, I think when starting out (which I still am) you think I want to make this specific muscle bigger and you see the experienced guys doing all these exercises, and it isnt that they arent applicable but they just arent quite as beneficial as doing the compound lifts.
I dont think I am going out on a limb here, but the consensus seems to be do those (Deads, Squats, Row, OHP and Bench) as the foundation and the rest is the add on, not the other way round, but it is tempting to do endless curls and flys etc, as what most blokes want is big chest and arm muscles, the compounds dont seem specific or targeted enough to achieve that when you are starting out.
So, you get newbies doing stuff that bodybuilders use to target specific muscles, usually with poor form, like the fairly slight chap I saw curling 20 kilo dumbells the other day who was swinging them like he was going to launch them, not sure what he was isolating.
The stronglifts thing is proving to be a bit of a revelation to me, scale weight has gone up a bit but jeans fitting the same/better, hmm, what could that be ?
Good post, J4CKO! I dont think I am going out on a limb here, but the consensus seems to be do those (Deads, Squats, Row, OHP and Bench) as the foundation and the rest is the add on, not the other way round, but it is tempting to do endless curls and flys etc, as what most blokes want is big chest and arm muscles, the compounds dont seem specific or targeted enough to achieve that when you are starting out.
So, you get newbies doing stuff that bodybuilders use to target specific muscles, usually with poor form, like the fairly slight chap I saw curling 20 kilo dumbells the other day who was swinging them like he was going to launch them, not sure what he was isolating.
The stronglifts thing is proving to be a bit of a revelation to me, scale weight has gone up a bit but jeans fitting the same/better, hmm, what could that be ?
My biggest regret when starting down this road is not starting Deadlifts from day one, rather than starting them a year in to my training, thinking they would damage my spine. If done properly and with appropriate weight (and the all-important warm ups), I now realise they actually strengthen the back, making it less likely to have back problems. So I am a year behind in progress with Deads compared to other main lifts because I was an idiot.
It is funny when I go to a local gym and see the big guys doing compounds and the skinny (or overweight) guys doing endless curl variations, the very people who would benefit most from main compounds. But I guess isolations are much easier to do, a lot less stressful. I assume these people will eventually give up, thinking weight training did nothing for them. I also see PT's showing these guys how to train, but again, they are all pointless isolation stuff for biceps and triceps! I assume they do these because they are less likely to incur injury in this litigation happy society, I don't know..
I think the main compounds (and pull ups) should be the main meat of people's training, more so for beginners. I don't think anyone who has a great physique (like DD and Mcelliot) got there but doing endless curls, lat pulldowns and other easy machine stuff..
Burwood said:
Looking great Ben. Some real 3D on the delts. When's the full on cut coming?
I feel guilty, skipped the gym yesterday, went out for lunch with 2 pints. Will have to smash it today
Thanks I feel guilty, skipped the gym yesterday, went out for lunch with 2 pints. Will have to smash it today
No cut on the cards for the foreseeable- need to finish my powerlifting training cycle first.chris watton said:
J4CKO said:
Interesting about the isolation work and that is what I was doing, ok was bench pressing but was wary of squats, deadlifts etc and sort of didnt see the point, I think when starting out (which I still am) you think I want to make this specific muscle bigger and you see the experienced guys doing all these exercises, and it isnt that they arent applicable but they just arent quite as beneficial as doing the compound lifts.
I dont think I am going out on a limb here, but the consensus seems to be do those (Deads, Squats, Row, OHP and Bench) as the foundation and the rest is the add on, not the other way round, but it is tempting to do endless curls and flys etc, as what most blokes want is big chest and arm muscles, the compounds dont seem specific or targeted enough to achieve that when you are starting out.
So, you get newbies doing stuff that bodybuilders use to target specific muscles, usually with poor form, like the fairly slight chap I saw curling 20 kilo dumbells the other day who was swinging them like he was going to launch them, not sure what he was isolating.
The stronglifts thing is proving to be a bit of a revelation to me, scale weight has gone up a bit but jeans fitting the same/better, hmm, what could that be ?
Good post, J4CKO! I dont think I am going out on a limb here, but the consensus seems to be do those (Deads, Squats, Row, OHP and Bench) as the foundation and the rest is the add on, not the other way round, but it is tempting to do endless curls and flys etc, as what most blokes want is big chest and arm muscles, the compounds dont seem specific or targeted enough to achieve that when you are starting out.
So, you get newbies doing stuff that bodybuilders use to target specific muscles, usually with poor form, like the fairly slight chap I saw curling 20 kilo dumbells the other day who was swinging them like he was going to launch them, not sure what he was isolating.
The stronglifts thing is proving to be a bit of a revelation to me, scale weight has gone up a bit but jeans fitting the same/better, hmm, what could that be ?
My biggest regret when starting down this road is not starting Deadlifts from day one, rather than starting them a year in to my training, thinking they would damage my spine. If done properly and with appropriate weight (and the all-important warm ups), I now realise they actually strengthen the back, making it less likely to have back problems. So I am a year behind in progress with Deads compared to other main lifts because I was an idiot.
It is funny when I go to a local gym and see the big guys doing compounds and the skinny (or overweight) guys doing endless curl variations, the very people who would benefit most from main compounds. But I guess isolations are much easier to do, a lot less stressful. I assume these people will eventually give up, thinking weight training did nothing for them. I also see PT's showing these guys how to train, but again, they are all pointless isolation stuff for biceps and triceps! I assume they do these because they are less likely to incur injury in this litigation happy society, I don't know..
I think the main compounds (and pull ups) should be the main meat of people's training, more so for beginners. I don't think anyone who has a great physique (like DD and Mcelliot) got there but doing endless curls, lat pulldowns and other easy machine stuff..
chris watton said:
J4CKO said:
Interesting about the isolation work and that is what I was doing, ok was bench pressing but was wary of squats, deadlifts etc and sort of didnt see the point, I think when starting out (which I still am) you think I want to make this specific muscle bigger and you see the experienced guys doing all these exercises, and it isnt that they arent applicable but they just arent quite as beneficial as doing the compound lifts.
I dont think I am going out on a limb here, but the consensus seems to be do those (Deads, Squats, Row, OHP and Bench) as the foundation and the rest is the add on, not the other way round, but it is tempting to do endless curls and flys etc, as what most blokes want is big chest and arm muscles, the compounds dont seem specific or targeted enough to achieve that when you are starting out.
So, you get newbies doing stuff that bodybuilders use to target specific muscles, usually with poor form, like the fairly slight chap I saw curling 20 kilo dumbells the other day who was swinging them like he was going to launch them, not sure what he was isolating.
The stronglifts thing is proving to be a bit of a revelation to me, scale weight has gone up a bit but jeans fitting the same/better, hmm, what could that be ?
Good post, J4CKO! I dont think I am going out on a limb here, but the consensus seems to be do those (Deads, Squats, Row, OHP and Bench) as the foundation and the rest is the add on, not the other way round, but it is tempting to do endless curls and flys etc, as what most blokes want is big chest and arm muscles, the compounds dont seem specific or targeted enough to achieve that when you are starting out.
So, you get newbies doing stuff that bodybuilders use to target specific muscles, usually with poor form, like the fairly slight chap I saw curling 20 kilo dumbells the other day who was swinging them like he was going to launch them, not sure what he was isolating.
The stronglifts thing is proving to be a bit of a revelation to me, scale weight has gone up a bit but jeans fitting the same/better, hmm, what could that be ?
My biggest regret when starting down this road is not starting Deadlifts from day one, rather than starting them a year in to my training, thinking they would damage my spine. If done properly and with appropriate weight (and the all-important warm ups), I now realise they actually strengthen the back, making it less likely to have back problems. So I am a year behind in progress with Deads compared to other main lifts because I was an idiot.
It is funny when I go to a local gym and see the big guys doing compounds and the skinny (or overweight) guys doing endless curl variations, the very people who would benefit most from main compounds. But I guess isolations are much easier to do, a lot less stressful. I assume these people will eventually give up, thinking weight training did nothing for them. I also see PT's showing these guys how to train, but again, they are all pointless isolation stuff for biceps and triceps! I assume they do these because they are less likely to incur injury in this litigation happy society, I don't know..
I think the main compounds (and pull ups) should be the main meat of people's training, more so for beginners. I don't think anyone who has a great physique (like DD and Mcelliot) got there but doing endless curls, lat pulldowns and other easy machine stuff..
Big arms/chest/legs all come along at the same time as the whole body tends to grow as a single unit. A little extra focus on certain muscles can help, but I've noted that my arms have gotten bigger when I've gotten bigger, regardless of what I do to them.
Got out on MTB yesterday through the sugar cane plantations with a local. Him on a full sus carbon fibre dream machine me on a pig iron hotel rental bike that I'd skip if I owned it back home.
Fairly high avg for roughly 1hr 45mins with probably 60% off road and 40% 'on road' or what passes for roads! Really enjoyed it and worked up quite a sweat.
Didn't strava it as was worried about dropping my phone.
Looking at hiring a road bike in Dubai next week and doing a few circuits of the Nad Al Sheba track.
God it's good to see the sun again as well.
Fairly high avg for roughly 1hr 45mins with probably 60% off road and 40% 'on road' or what passes for roads! Really enjoyed it and worked up quite a sweat.
Didn't strava it as was worried about dropping my phone.
Looking at hiring a road bike in Dubai next week and doing a few circuits of the Nad Al Sheba track.
God it's good to see the sun again as well.
The strangest creature is heavy isolation work. The science supports the idea of light isolation work (focusing on the quality of the contraction, using a steady tempo, etc), but heavy isolation work really doesn't have much basis in theory. Yet it's what literally most gym bros do: really heavy curls and really heavy leg machine work.
Another thing is that the big compound lifts (if used in a sensible programme) don't have to make you less athletic, whereas heavy machine work seems to. I've got faster at sprinting since I started training more with weights, and I am more flexible too. That's not true at all of the gym bros that I know - they're all the classic 'muscle bound' stereotype.
Another thing is that the big compound lifts (if used in a sensible programme) don't have to make you less athletic, whereas heavy machine work seems to. I've got faster at sprinting since I started training more with weights, and I am more flexible too. That's not true at all of the gym bros that I know - they're all the classic 'muscle bound' stereotype.
ORD said:
The strangest creature is heavy isolation work. The science supports the idea of light isolation work (focusing on the quality of the contraction, using a steady tempo, etc), but heavy isolation work really doesn't have much basis in theory. Yet it's what literally most gym bros do: really heavy curls and really heavy leg machine work.
Another thing is that the big compound lifts (if used in a sensible programme) don't have to make you less athletic, whereas heavy machine work seems to. I've got faster at sprinting since I started training more with weights, and I am more flexible too. That's not true at all of the gym bros that I know - they're all the classic 'muscle bound' stereotype.
I'd say that heavy isolation work has as much support as any other heavy work. theory that applies to 1 muscle can apply to them all pretty much.Another thing is that the big compound lifts (if used in a sensible programme) don't have to make you less athletic, whereas heavy machine work seems to. I've got faster at sprinting since I started training more with weights, and I am more flexible too. That's not true at all of the gym bros that I know - they're all the classic 'muscle bound' stereotype.
Athleticism can be maintained whatever your size- I think it's just a case of actually maintaining it. Getting bigger often means dropping or sacrificing else to focus on the goal, but it's easy to get back when required. I'm still fairly quick, but I do need to warm up before I get in to full sprint mode- that may be because I'm older than I once was though
didelydoo said:
I'd say that heavy isolation work has as much support as any other heavy work. theory that applies to 1 muscle can apply to them all pretty much.
Athleticism can be maintained whatever your size- I think it's just a case of actually maintaining it. Getting bigger often means dropping or sacrificing else to focus on the goal, but it's easy to get back when required. I'm still fairly quick, but I do need to warm up before I get in to full sprint mode- that may be because I'm older than I once was though
It partly depends on what you define as isolation work, I suppose. Most of the heavy "isolation work" that people advocate involves a lot of contribution from other muscle groups: I would not call a cheat curl a true isolation exercise (because you are also using the lower back); the same goes for things like Kroc rows or cheat tricep push downs. I think it is hard to avoid cheating once the weight gets high enough relative to the strength of the muscle(s) you are trying to isolate. A strict Pendlay row, for example, becomes a lot less strict as you approach a 1RM.Athleticism can be maintained whatever your size- I think it's just a case of actually maintaining it. Getting bigger often means dropping or sacrificing else to focus on the goal, but it's easy to get back when required. I'm still fairly quick, but I do need to warm up before I get in to full sprint mode- that may be because I'm older than I once was though
On athleticism, I played football once with a guy who must have weighed about 95kg and who was fast as f
k. That was quite humbling. Not sure about "whatever your size" - physics does screw you at some point, and none of the guys on that Mr Olympia stage could play a game of football / soccer.ORD said:
On athleticism, I played football once with a guy who must have weighed about 95kg and who was fast as fk. That was quite humbling. Not sure about "whatever your size" - physics does screw you at some point, and none of the guys on that Mr Olympia stage could play a game of football / soccer.
Rugby players are good examples of big guys that can move.k. That was quite humbling. Not sure about "whatever your size" - physics does screw you at some point, and none of the guys on that Mr Olympia stage could play a game of football / soccer.And you may be surprised just how athletic some big bodybuilders are, even the O competitors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1-ygiI6_3M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLuZRpiufts
ORD said:
The strangest creature is heavy isolation work. The science supports the idea of light isolation work (focusing on the quality of the contraction, using a steady tempo, etc), but heavy isolation work really doesn't have much basis in theory.
What theory might that be? Reg Park was a particular advocate of very heavy calf raises. Do you think he was wrong?ORD said:
I would not call a cheat curl a true isolation exercise (because you are also using the lower back);
Compound lift = more than one joint, isolation = single joint. However compound is also taken to mean multiple muscle group involvement and isolation is taken to mean single muscle group involvement. I assume this is your angle here. This is impossible as there will always be synergists at work aiding the agonist. Forearm (brach + brad) muscles work to stabilise the elbow. Other muscles, (traps + front delts) work to stabilise the entire arm.There is no such thing as an isolation exercise from a muscle perspective, and whether you use your lower back or not is irrelevant.
Today, I did my same routine, but reversed the order of exercises! The first couple of exercises felt harder, as I hadn't completely warmed up like I usually have by the time I get to these (assuming the huge muscle potentiation I have after the heavy leg and chest stuff plays a part in making all remaining stuff relatively easy..)
Back Extensions - 1x30
Seated Pulley Row - 4x20-12 reps
BB BOR (reverse grip) - 4x12-8 reps
Wide grip Pull Ups - 4x12-8 reps
High Pull - 4x10-6 reps
Power Clean - 6x6-2 reps
BB Standing O/H Press - 5x12-5 reps (last couple of reps push press)
Bench Press - 5x12-2 reps
Leg Press - 5x20-8 reps
Back Extensions - 1x30
Seated Pulley Row - 4x20-12 reps
BB BOR (reverse grip) - 4x12-8 reps
Wide grip Pull Ups - 4x12-8 reps
High Pull - 4x10-6 reps
Power Clean - 6x6-2 reps
BB Standing O/H Press - 5x12-5 reps (last couple of reps push press)
Bench Press - 5x12-2 reps
Leg Press - 5x20-8 reps
chris watton said:
J4CKO said:
Interesting about the isolation work and that is what I was doing, ok was bench pressing but was wary of squats, deadlifts etc and sort of didnt see the point, I think when starting out (which I still am) you think I want to make this specific muscle bigger and you see the experienced guys doing all these exercises, and it isnt that they arent applicable but they just arent quite as beneficial as doing the compound lifts.
I dont think I am going out on a limb here, but the consensus seems to be do those (Deads, Squats, Row, OHP and Bench) as the foundation and the rest is the add on, not the other way round, but it is tempting to do endless curls and flys etc, as what most blokes want is big chest and arm muscles, the compounds dont seem specific or targeted enough to achieve that when you are starting out.
So, you get newbies doing stuff that bodybuilders use to target specific muscles, usually with poor form, like the fairly slight chap I saw curling 20 kilo dumbells the other day who was swinging them like he was going to launch them, not sure what he was isolating.
The stronglifts thing is proving to be a bit of a revelation to me, scale weight has gone up a bit but jeans fitting the same/better, hmm, what could that be ?
Good post, J4CKO! I dont think I am going out on a limb here, but the consensus seems to be do those (Deads, Squats, Row, OHP and Bench) as the foundation and the rest is the add on, not the other way round, but it is tempting to do endless curls and flys etc, as what most blokes want is big chest and arm muscles, the compounds dont seem specific or targeted enough to achieve that when you are starting out.
So, you get newbies doing stuff that bodybuilders use to target specific muscles, usually with poor form, like the fairly slight chap I saw curling 20 kilo dumbells the other day who was swinging them like he was going to launch them, not sure what he was isolating.
The stronglifts thing is proving to be a bit of a revelation to me, scale weight has gone up a bit but jeans fitting the same/better, hmm, what could that be ?
My biggest regret when starting down this road is not starting Deadlifts from day one, rather than starting them a year in to my training, thinking they would damage my spine. If done properly and with appropriate weight (and the all-important warm ups), I now realise they actually strengthen the back, making it less likely to have back problems. So I am a year behind in progress with Deads compared to other main lifts because I was an idiot.
It is funny when I go to a local gym and see the big guys doing compounds and the skinny (or overweight) guys doing endless curl variations, the very people who would benefit most from main compounds. But I guess isolations are much easier to do, a lot less stressful. I assume these people will eventually give up, thinking weight training did nothing for them. I also see PT's showing these guys how to train, but again, they are all pointless isolation stuff for biceps and triceps! I assume they do these because they are less likely to incur injury in this litigation happy society, I don't know..
I think the main compounds (and pull ups) should be the main meat of people's training, more so for beginners. I don't think anyone who has a great physique (like DD and Mcelliot) got there but doing endless curls, lat pulldowns and other easy machine stuff..
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