5x5

[chris watton]

V8mate said:

V8covin said:

After about a year of training but not really knowing what I was doing I tried SL 5x5.
I did make some strength gains but it had no impact on my muscle size.If anything they got smaller lol.After 2 months I've switched to a 3x8 routine and am noticing small gains in size after just a few weeks. My diet has been the same throughout.
5x5 is not for me

The clue's in the name? 5x5 is strength training.

You need muscle atrophy to build muscle mass, generally at least 8 reps per set, and with 15, 12, 8 drop sets and super-setting exercises being the killer builders.

I am not so sure. I made some of my biggest gains with heavy 5x5 stuff

[LordGrover]

V8mate said:

The clue's in the name? 5x5 is strength training.

You need muscle atrophy hypertrophy to build muscle mass, generally at least 8 reps per set, and with 15, 12, 8 drop sets and super-setting exercises being the killer builders.

Atrophy is rather the opposite.

[Mr. H]

I had a few weeks off here and there over the summer period which meant that I kept dropping down the weight then building up again. I have another week off in October so I'll probably drop at least 5 Kg on each exercise when I start back. My stats now are as follows:

Height 5' 10"
Weight: 66 Kg
Squat: 87.5 Kg
Bench Press: 60 Kg
Bent over Row: 45 Kg
Overhead Press: 32.5 Kg
Deadlift: 80 Kg

I'm most happy with my squat as I didn't think I'd be able to get to this weight as quick as I have done (133% of bodyweight). I still remember putting the spot bars out when I was doing my bodyweight squat a couple of months back. My goal is to hit 100 Kg squat before Christmas. I know that if I can add 2.5 Kg per week I'll be there in no time at all.

Bench press at 60 Kg was really difficult and I had someone close by to spot but thankfully didn't need them. OHP was on the absolute edge of failure but I got all my reps with good form.

[V8mate]

LordGrover said:

V8mate said:

The clue's in the name? 5x5 is strength training.

You need muscle atrophy hypertrophy to build muscle mass, generally at least 8 reps per set, and with 15, 12, 8 drop sets and super-setting exercises being the killer builders.

Atrophy is rather the opposite.

Doh! Correct, thanks

I was typing under the duress of a colleague shouting 'come on, come on, we're going to be late for the meeting!'

[V8covin]

V8mate said:

The clue's in the name? 5x5 is strength training.

You need muscle atrophy to build muscle mass, generally at least 8 reps per set, and with 15, 12, 8 drop sets and super-setting exercises being the killer builders.

Which is exactly why I've switched

[V8mate]

Decode the colours?

[V8mate]

olly22n said:

V8mate said:

Decode the colours?

ah yes.

Green - Deadlift
Blue - Squat
Grey - Bench
Orange - Row
Purple - OHP

That's good progress!

Your OHP looks pretty good compared to your bench. You're definitely keeping legs locked; not using any leg spring to push the weight up?

[V8mate]

olly22n said:

V8mate said:

That's good progress!

Your OHP looks pretty good compared to your bench. You're definitely keeping legs locked; not using any leg spring to push the weight up?

My OHP is the weakest of the lot, and yes legs are locked out.

If your OHP form is correct, I'd suggest your bench press is your weakest lift. Maybe add some tricep-building accessory exercises into your week?

For example, superset 15 body-weight chair dips with 15 press-ups?

[V8mate]

olly22n said:

V8mate said:

olly22n said:

V8mate said:

That's good progress!

Your OHP looks pretty good compared to your bench. You're definitely keeping legs locked; not using any leg spring to push the weight up?

My OHP is the weakest of the lot, and yes legs are locked out.

If your OHP form is correct, I'd suggest your bench press is your weakest lift. Maybe add some tricep-building accessory exercises into your week?

For example, superset 15 body-weight chair dips with 15 press-ups?

My bench is weak at the moment due to the cracked ribs, this is the first week i haven't been in pain when lifting. I would rate my bench my second weakest after ohp.

The other three I feel strong at, while ohp and bench I feel I am already very near my threshold

OHP will always be (relatively) weak as it's the biggest struggle for the body.

Looking at your relative performance across all lifts, I think your bench should be higher, and the fact that you say you're plateauing tends to back that up. Some part of your chest and tris is your weak point and you should seek to address it to enable you to succeed across the range.

IMHO, etc.

[ORD]

Almost everyone has a weak OHP because people do not usually train it enough.

It should be substantially less than bench, though. The 'intermediate' lifting standard for my weight (80kg) gives 1RM of 98kg for bench (122% bw) and 67kg for OHP (84% bw).

I have the opposite issue - my bench is vastly better to my OHP. I would struggle to get 5 reps at 50kg on the OHP but can comfortably bench 92.5kg for 5 reps. I think my 1RM for OHP is probably below 55kg, whereas my bench is around 110kg or maybe even 115kg.

A lot depends on which lifts you enjoy and feel confident doing. I've started to like single dumbbell rows recently, and my 8 RM in those has gone through the roof in about a month.

[Mr. H]

As expected after I posted yesterday I completely failed after 2 reps on 62.5 Kg Bench Press and my form wasn't great on 47.5 Kg Bent Over Row. I repeated the 87.5 Kg squat as I didn't think my form was perfect last time and I wasn't dipping far enough on all reps.

The problem with 5x5 is that you aren't hitting the muscles with different movements so it feels restricted when you fail an exercise. If I was doing a chest day then at least I know I would be building up muscle with other exercises even after failing on the bench press.

[V8mate]

Mr. H said:

As expected after I posted yesterday I completely failed after 2 reps on 62.5 Kg Bench Press and my form wasn't great on 47.5 Kg Bent Over Row. I repeated the 87.5 Kg squat as I didn't think my form was perfect last time and I wasn't dipping far enough on all reps.

The problem with 5x5 is that you aren't hitting the muscles with different movements so it feels restricted when you fail an exercise. If I was doing a chest day then at least I know I would be building up muscle with other exercises even after failing on the bench press.

5x5 doesn't exclude accessory lifts. If you've got the time and inclination to add some dumbbell presses or some tricep-focussed exercises, either with weights or using body-weight as I suggested to Olly^^, you should definitely do them!

[chris watton]

You could substitute the overhead press for clean and press. After doing 5x5 of those, you'll feel like you were winging it with just the simple press.

Pull ups, especially wide grip variants are a great inclusion at the end of a 5x5 routine (or any routine for that matter). I have found that these widen your lats more than any other exercise.

[ORD]

Not sure why I don't do clean and press. If you keep the press strict, you're getting the same benefit as from the OHP and the clean is just a bonus.

Not done cleans for years, but can't imagine I can OHP more than I can clean.

[TurboHatchback]

The relative strengths of your lifts will depend a lot on your skeletal shape as well as your training. I am tall with long limbs and a flat chest but quite a wide back and shoulders so my pressing is weak as are my squats but my pulling is strong. For reference:

• Squat - 1RM 110kg (maybe 120, haven't tried). 5x5 probably around 90kg
• Deadlift - 1RM 180kg (on a good day), 5x5 probably 150kg
• Bent over row - 1RM don't know, 5x5 probably 90kg
• Bench press - 1RM not sure, probably ~105kg, 5x5 ~85-90kg
• Overhead press - 1RM around 60kg, 5x5 ~50kg

The majority of guys I see are shorter and thicker and hence better at pressing but often worse at pulling. I wouldn't worry about trying to achieve some ideal ratio, just get as strong as you can in every lift.

[ORD]

The same bent over row as bench press would be utterly exceptional, I would have thought!

[stargazer30]

ORD said:

The same bent over row as bench press would be utterly exceptional, I would have thought!

Agree, my rows typically lag about 10kg behind my bench weight.

[didelydoo]

stargazer30 said:

ORD said:

The same bent over row as bench press would be utterly exceptional, I would have thought!

Agree, my rows typically lag about 10kg behind my bench weight.

I can row loads more than I can bench.

[chris watton]

didelydoo said:

stargazer30 said:

ORD said:

The same bent over row as bench press would be utterly exceptional, I would have thought!

Agree, my rows typically lag about 10kg behind my bench weight.

I can row loads more than I can bench.

Yeah, but you're a monster!

[stargazer30]

Well I've come off strong lifts 5x5 recently. I've kept the concept and designed a 3 day routine that keeps the same compound lifts but mitigates some of the problems that ultimately stopped strong lifts working for me.

I managed about 5 months of SL before it got too much. Made good gains. Start to Closing stats;

Squats 50kg > 105kg
Bench 40kg > 75kg
OHP 25kg > 45kg
DeadLift 60kg > 120kg
Row 30kg > 65kg

The main probs I had were;
Squats! They were wiping me out, back and knee pain and so exhausted even after dropping to 3 sets my other lifts were failing to progress. The back and knee pain I traced down to me coming too far forward at the bottom of the squat onto my toes. Can't fix it though as its a hip flexibility problem for me. Only way I could get around it was squat low bar but my arms and wrists are not flexible enough for that either.

Bench Press. I have no spotter or spotter rails so going to failure was just not safe or possible on a regular basis. Got pinned twice by the bar over the months I did SL. On my new routine I use a 5 to 8 reps per set range. So I only add weight once I get full sets of 8 reps. The next time with the heavier weight, I won't push much past 5 reps if it feels like I'm going to fail.

New routine seems to be working okay so far. My legs have come on great, so much that other stuff is screwing me over. I did a 125kg DL today and could have gone 130kg but my grip strength failed. Left hand can't keep shut, bar is pulling out of it.

Bench is improving again. After my compound bench press, I use higher rep sets on the pec fly and converging chest press machines to make sure I really hammer my chest muscles in a safe way.

I just wish I could keep the squats. My legs can go over 105kg easy but my form is stopping me. Only thing I can think of is using the smith machine to force my hips back without leaning forward at the bottom. Currently I am only doing light Squats and going heavy on the leg press instead.