5x5

[V8mate]

PapaJohns said:

ORD said:

Deadlifts.
Loaded carries. Loaded carries are great for your traps.
You could also do olympic lifts and high pulls (a bit like the second pulling part of a clean).

I dont think any of those are a substitute for rows, though. We should all do more rowing motions.

Over head press ?

No. OHP is a shoulder exercise which is important as it improves your bench press (it trains the secondary/supporting muscles for the BP)

You may feel your lower back kicking in when you OHP... that means that either your form is off, you're not locking your core properly, or your shoulders (or core) are shot for that session. (So you should stop!)

[TameRacingDriver]

ORD said:

Deadlifts.
Loaded carries. Loaded carries are great for your traps.
You could also do olympic lifts and high pulls (a bit like the second pulling part of a clean).

I dont think any of those are a substitute for rows, though. We should all do more rowing motions.

Cheers, it was more of a supplement exercise rather than to replace.

Apologies if I've asked this before, but does anyone else do more than one set of deadlifts? Most of these routines recommend one set only. I do kind of feel like squats and deadlifts should be done on different days as they are both very taxing exercises, and both arguably work the legs.... which is the reason I'm asking as I could maybe fit an extra back exercise in there until I get good enough to do pull ups.

[ORD]

V8mate said:

PapaJohns said:

ORD said:

Deadlifts.
Loaded carries. Loaded carries are great for your traps.
You could also do olympic lifts and high pulls (a bit like the second pulling part of a clean).

I dont think any of those are a substitute for rows, though. We should all do more rowing motions.

Over head press ?

No. OHP is a shoulder exercise which is important as it improves your bench press (it trains the secondary/supporting muscles for the BP)

You may feel your lower back kicking in when you OHP... that means that either your form is off, you're not locking your core properly, or your shoulders (or core) are shot for that session. (So you should stop!)

It will hit your serratus and traps, but it is predominantly a shoulder exercise.

[PapaJohns]

ORD said:

It will hit your serratus and traps, but it is predominantly a shoulder exercise.

Good to know, it was only a suggestion ........ locked knees & clenched glutes

[PapaJohns]

TameRacingDriver said:

Cheers, it was more of a supplement exercise rather than to replace.

Apologies if I've asked this before, but does anyone else do more than one set of deadlifts? Most of these routines recommend one set only. I do kind of feel like squats and deadlifts should be done on different days as they are both very taxing exercises, and both arguably work the legs.... which is the reason I'm asking as I could maybe fit an extra back exercise in there until I get good enough to do pull ups.

For me with the weight only being 60kg,Iv took it upon myself to do 2x5 deadlifts,if only to practice form

[Desiato]

TameRacingDriver said:

Cheers, it was more of a supplement exercise rather than to replace.

Apologies if I've asked this before, but does anyone else do more than one set of deadlifts? Most of these routines recommend one set only. I do kind of feel like squats and deadlifts should be done on different days as they are both very taxing exercises, and both arguably work the legs.... which is the reason I'm asking as I could maybe fit an extra back exercise in there until I get good enough to do pull ups.

I go by how I feel, if I do the set of five and feel good I may try for single heavier Rep, or perhaps drop ten kg and do as many as possible keeping good form.

I also like adding farmers walk and pull ups. Love the feel of the walk/carry exercises.

[TameRacingDriver]

Looks like I may be getting a power rack after all. OH offered to buy one as she was watching me today and I slightly lost balance in the first rep of my squats tonight when she decided to watch me.

I should have got one originally but you live and learn... at least I will be able to push on with confidence once the weight starts to increase.

[ajcj]

Desiato said:

TameRacingDriver said:

Cheers, it was more of a supplement exercise rather than to replace.

Apologies if I've asked this before, but does anyone else do more than one set of deadlifts? Most of these routines recommend one set only. I do kind of feel like squats and deadlifts should be done on different days as they are both very taxing exercises, and both arguably work the legs.... which is the reason I'm asking as I could maybe fit an extra back exercise in there until I get good enough to do pull ups.

I go by how I feel, if I do the set of five and feel good I may try for single heavier Rep, or perhaps drop ten kg and do as many as possible keeping good form.

I also like adding farmers walk and pull ups. Love the feel of the walk/carry exercises.

I was doing more than one set as the weight built, because it felt easy, but rarely did more than two, instead slowing down the eccentric phase and concentrating on form. Now it's got heavy (by my standards, anyway) I do one set at top weight, but do a couple of warm-down sets as well. So my last session was:

10 x 20kg (empty bar)
5 x 50kg, no rest
5 x 70kg, no rest
5 x 90kg, no rest
5 x 110kg Then two/three minutes rest
5 x 125kg Then two minutes rest
5 x 110kg Then two minutes rest
5 x 90kg Then one minute rest
5 x 70kg

That's a lot of reps for one set of 5, if you see what I mean, but the first 25 up to 90kg are all about getting the movement right, and feeling that the muscles are warm. I added the sets with decreasing weight because I felt that stopping after the heaviest lift was making me stiff, and i wanted some kind of warm down. The whole thing doesn't take more than 15 minutes.

[ORD]

ajcj said:

I was doing more than one set as the weight built, because it felt easy, but rarely did more than two, instead slowing down the eccentric phase and concentrating on form. Now it's got heavy (by my standards, anyway) I do one set at top weight, but do a couple of warm-down sets as well. So my last session was:

10 x 20kg (empty bar)
5 x 50kg, no rest
5 x 70kg, no rest
5 x 90kg, no rest
5 x 110kg Then two/three minutes rest
5 x 125kg Then two minutes rest
5 x 110kg Then two minutes rest
5 x 90kg Then one minute rest
5 x 70kg

That's a lot of reps for one set of 5, if you see what I mean, but the first 25 up to 90kg are all about getting the movement right, and feeling that the muscles are warm. I added the sets with decreasing weight because I felt that stopping after the heaviest lift was making me stiff, and i wanted some kind of warm down. The whole thing doesn't take more than 15 minutes.

I think you're doing too many warm up sets. No obvious reason to do a set of 5 at just below your top weight. It will just hamper performance on that set (or cause you to take a long rest and get out of the groove). 2 reps to get the feel of the weight would be plenty.


I also don't really understand the big rests after your heavy set. The next 2 sets should be fairly easy, so 1 min rest would be plenty.

[ajcj]

ORD said:

ajcj said:

I was doing more than one set as the weight built, because it felt easy, but rarely did more than two, instead slowing down the eccentric phase and concentrating on form. Now it's got heavy (by my standards, anyway) I do one set at top weight, but do a couple of warm-down sets as well. So my last session was:

10 x 20kg (empty bar)
5 x 50kg, no rest
5 x 70kg, no rest
5 x 90kg, no rest
5 x 110kg Then two/three minutes rest
5 x 125kg Then two minutes rest
5 x 110kg Then two minutes rest
5 x 90kg Then one minute rest
5 x 70kg

That's a lot of reps for one set of 5, if you see what I mean, but the first 25 up to 90kg are all about getting the movement right, and feeling that the muscles are warm. I added the sets with decreasing weight because I felt that stopping after the heaviest lift was making me stiff, and i wanted some kind of warm down. The whole thing doesn't take more than 15 minutes.

I think you're doing too many warm up sets. No obvious reason to do a set of 5 at just below your top weight. It will just hamper performance on that set (or cause you to take a long rest and get out of the groove). 2 reps to get the feel of the weight would be plenty.


I also don't really understand the big rests after your heavy set. The next 2 sets should be fairly easy, so 1 min rest would be plenty.

You may have a point about the number of warm-up sets. I've worked the weight up from empty bars over eight or nine months, so I've kept the warm-ups I was doing when the weight was lighter and just added more on. I'll try fewer steps on the way up next time.

The big rest after my heavy set is to allow me to walk round the gym with my chest puffed out, looking like I've just smashed the Olympic record, but really waiting for my heart rate to get back down below 250, the flashing lights in front of my eyes to go away, and the feelings of nausea to subside.

[ORD]

Haha! Fair enough. I feel like I'm missing something with squats as I get a bit sweaty and sometimes a little bit breathless, but I've never really been strong enough to tax my conditioning as others seem to be able to do.

My legs and back seem to give up before I get knackered, at least when I am lifting with low to moderate reps. I feel sick as a pig if I go for 15 plus reps at bodyweight, but I think that's different from the effect lots of people get from a heavy 5 or 6 reps.

Probably just need to get stronger!

[Heathwood]

After a bit of a frustrating week due to some lower back pain and therefore skipping Wednesdays session, it all came good in the end.

I failed on OHP last time so was keen to nail it this time, plus squats were about to hit 100kg, which felt like a little bit of a landmark. All reps were hit at the following weight:

Squat - 100kg
OHP - 50kg
Deads - 115kg

OHP went surprisngly well. Thanks for the tips and support since failing to hit my reps last time. I tensed my legs and core more and squeezed my glutes like I was in a prison shower room. Seemed to help.

BW seems stagnant at 70kg so slightly worried that I'm just building up to my limits and will hit a brick wall, but for now I'm pleased with how things are going.

[PapaJohns]

Iv just finished week 3

Squat 60kg
Bench 50kg
Row 40kg
OHP 37.5kg
Deadlift 55kg

so far so good

[ORD]

Heathwood said:

After a bit of a frustrating week due to some lower back pain and therefore skipping Wednesdays session, it all came good in the end.

I failed on OHP last time so was keen to nail it this time, plus squats were about to hit 100kg, which felt like a little bit of a landmark. All reps were hit at the following weight:

Squat - 100kg
OHP - 50kg
Deads - 115kg

OHP went surprisngly well. Thanks for the tips and support since failing to hit my reps last time. I tensed my legs and core more and squeezed my glutes like I was in a prison shower room. Seemed to help.

BW seems stagnant at 70kg so slightly worried that I'm just building up to my limits and will hit a brick wall, but for now I'm pleased with how things are going.

I would guess that you have may plenty of progress still to make on the squats and deadlifts but will soon struggle to add weight to the OHP.

[Heathwood]

ORD said:

Heathwood said:

After a bit of a frustrating week due to some lower back pain and therefore skipping Wednesdays session, it all came good in the end.

I failed on OHP last time so was keen to nail it this time, plus squats were about to hit 100kg, which felt like a little bit of a landmark. All reps were hit at the following weight:

Squat - 100kg
OHP - 50kg
Deads - 115kg

OHP went surprisngly well. Thanks for the tips and support since failing to hit my reps last time. I tensed my legs and core more and squeezed my glutes like I was in a prison shower room. Seemed to help.

BW seems stagnant at 70kg so slightly worried that I'm just building up to my limits and will hit a brick wall, but for now I'm pleased with how things are going.

I would guess that you have may plenty of progress still to make on the squats and deadlifts but will soon struggle to add weight to the OHP.

Hmm, I don't know. Squats are getting quite heavy, another week or two and I might be struggling. OHP I'm definitely close to my limit and is the only lift I've failed in 8 weeks. Plenty left on deads; my 1rm PB is 150kg albeit with straps.

[ORD]

If I did 5 x 5 I would probably do something different on the Wednesday - loaded carries and bodyweight exercises. I struggle to see the bang for buck in going to the gym just to go through the motions on the big lifts.

[Heathwood]

Well, I've had a slight setback with my squats and in some respects I feel like I've been cheating a bit, although that certainly wasn't the intention.

I train in my home (garage) gym as I can't stand commercial gyms. The only way I've been able to squat heavy (for me at least) is to squat over my bench in its lowest decline position. When I sense my shorts just touching the bench I push back up. However, a couple of times of late I felt I didn't have much left and knew with the progression of 5x5 that sooner or later I'd not be able to get the bar back up and would be in a bit of a predicament.

So, I bought myself a squat rack. I tried it tonight and fk me it was tough. I didn't think I was getting any benefit whatsoever from having the bench beneath me but I think I must have been. Part of the problem I think is getting used to how deep to go (I took a video of a set and it was well below parallel. I feel like I need to readjust, maybe even relearn how to squat, without the physical or psychological benefit of something underneath me. I'm pretty gutted as I thought I was doing well. In fairness, I did complete 4 of the 5 sets (at 105kg) but it wasn't pretty and I couldn't get the bar back up on 1 occasion.

So, I'm thinking of taking a decent step back, maybe by as much as 20kg and build again from there to get my form and confidence back. Would this be wise do you think? I'm concerned I'll do myself a bit of a mischief otherwise.

[ORD]

Difficult to say without seeing the squats.

If you have been relaxing at the bottom (to get the depth) and then tightening again to push up, you should definitely work on your form at lower weight.

I see a lot of people who lose tension at the bottom (the worst place to do it for your spine) when they do box squats.

Concentrate on maintaining lots of full body and core tension to parallel for a few weeks and only then go lower if you can do so without any loss of tension.

[stargazer30]

ORD said:

Difficult to say without seeing the squats.

If you have been relaxing at the bottom (to get the depth) and then tightening again to push up, you should definitely work on your form at lower weight.

I see a lot of people who lose tension at the bottom (the worst place to do it for your spine) when they do box squats.

Concentrate on maintaining lots of full body and core tension to parallel for a few weeks and only then go lower if you can do so without any loss of tension.

I just saw a similar thing with the deadlift. My deadlift, I deload the weight to the floor after each rep, reset my back, breath in/brace and up we go. So about 1 sec between reps. Now using that method, I can do 130kg for 5 reps no bother. My PT showed me a better way where you go down slow touch the bar to the floor but don't deload, you go straight back up. I did 8 reps at 100kg and it was really tough on my lower back and grip.

PS - 100+KG squat for 5 sets of 5 for some one who weights 70kg is still very respectable. I am 85kg and 3 sets of 5 at 100kg and I'm done (well my back is)

[ORD]

stargazer30 said:

I just saw a similar thing with the deadlift. My deadlift, I deload the weight to the floor after each rep, reset my back, breath in/brace and up we go. So about 1 sec between reps. Now using that method, I can do 130kg for 5 reps no bother. My PT showed me a better way where you go down slow touch the bar to the floor but don't deload, you go straight back up. I did 8 reps at 100kg and it was really tough on my lower back and grip.

PS - 100+KG squat for 5 sets of 5 for some one who weights 70kg is still very respectable. I am 85kg and 3 sets of 5 at 100kg and I'm done (well my back is)

It is vastly safer to reset between reps for heavy deadlifts. If 100kg is very light to you, it's fine. But it gets risky once the weight is enough to pull you down and out of good pulling shape between reps. Better than bouncing reps, though, which I see a lot at my local gym. If you're going to let the weight fall, then reset!