Help with elderly relatives - Parkinson's + Dementia issues?

[RC1807]

MIL and FIL were yesterday telling the staff at Soton General that they wanted him home and didn't need any carers or support. Thankfully they'd taken note of the MIL's memory issues and called my wife at home...wife told them there's no way they can go home without support, based on what we'd experienced at the weekend. FIL is retained in the geriatric unit until post-release care can be sorted.

0130 today, the phone rings. Oh. st.
Wife answers and it's the police. st. st!
They explain they'd been called to the inlaws' as my MIL was confused as to where her husband was.....hear her in the background repeating, "Where's my husband? Where's my husband?" The police had already worked out from the contents of my MIL's handbag that he's in hospital and had called Soton General and spoken to the duty nurse to check he was ok. (We don't know how this confusion or 999 police call came about as the MIL wasn't making any sense on the phone.)

MIL is put on the phone and my wife had to explain to her, a few times, that he was ok and in hospital, having been there since Sunday - "you were with him in the ambulance, Mum, remember?..." Finally she calms down and seems to recall, but the questions continue whilst the police are back on the phone to my wife....

Police suggest they get an ambulance out to check MIL for any infections - okaaaaay.... Not sure why that comes into effect, but this police officer seems to be keeping the MIL calm and may have dealt with this stuff before.

An hour or so later the phone rings again. Ambulance crew did a test for a urine infection and the MIL has one, so she's off to Soton General - where her husband is!
FFS, we're home in Lux - 500 miles away.
At least my MIL isn't home alone, and we are grateful to the police and the Soton Ambulance crew a once again for their help!

My wife will call the hospital later updates on them both, and it's now abundantly clear my FIL can not return home without the care support.


(My wife's brother, meanwhile, isn't having to deal with any of this stress, although he only lives on the Isle of Wight, about 40 miles away. He doesn't bother staying in touch with my wife or his parents, and hasn't visited the parent for 2 years. We've not seen him for 16 years! Let's see if this latest news can rouse the lazy . )

[TooMany2cvs]

RC1807 said:

Police suggest they get an ambulance out to check MIL for any infections - okaaaaay.... Not sure why that comes into effect, but this police officer seems to be keeping the MIL calm and may have dealt with this stuff before.

An hour or so later the phone rings again. Ambulance crew did a test for a urine infection and the MIL has one

Not a great surprise - dehydration and UTIs do cause and exacerbate memory problems. Old, vulnerable people forget to drink, or don't want to because going for a pee is too much hassle...

[aeropilot]

TooMany2cvs said:

RC1807 said:

Police suggest they get an ambulance out to check MIL for any infections - okaaaaay.... Not sure why that comes into effect, but this police officer seems to be keeping the MIL calm and may have dealt with this stuff before.

An hour or so later the phone rings again. Ambulance crew did a test for a urine infection and the MIL has one

Not a great surprise - dehydration and UTIs do cause and exacerbate memory problems. Old, vulnerable people forget to drink, or don't want to because going for a pee is too much hassle...

Its what put my late Mum in such a poor state that she became so delusional she ended up setting fire to her house, which put her hospital, from there to a specialist dementia care home, never to go 'home' again.

I suspect, that your inlaws assessment will mean, like my Mum, the only choices will be 24/7 live in carers in their home, or both going into a care home. The problem with the former, will be live-in carers won't 'look after' the house, so, as they can't, and clearly you can't, someone will have to be paid to, such as a property services company. Sadly, I suspect in the situation, the best course of action, will be care home placement and selling the house to fund it. With no POA, that will be a drawn out affair.

I've been there, and its a stressful enough situation, even when relatively near to hand, not easy to deal with when so far away.

[RC1807]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the repsonses. Hadn't thought of the dehydration issue.

I need to keep an eye on my wife too, making sure she's OK. She's handling this remarkably well and clamly - at the moment. I'm at work and the home phone's engaged, so I'm sure she's calling Soton General to find out the latest before we take the next steps...

My wife & I discussed the POA topic together only on Saturday evening, right before Sunday morning's events, so we will have to move ahead on that now in the current circumstances. My FIL understands everything that's going on, so I hope we can get some conclusion on this bit, at least.

Having a live in carer isn't an issue; there's space. Having a cleaner and/or housekeeper too, again, isn't an issue financially, it's getting it all organised. We can go over every couple of weeks now my business travel's over until September.

Edited by RC1807 on Wednesday 7th June 09:40

[aeropilot]

RC1807 said:

Having a live in carer isn't an issue; there's space. Having a cleaner and/or housekeeper too, again, isn't an issue financially, it's getting it all organised.

If its deemed they need 24/7 care (often the case with dementia) you have to allow for 2 x carers as one person can't do 24/7 (they need time off as well!) which does tend to add a level of complication.
Cleaner/housekeeper will need to be OK with additional duties such as shopping for food etc., and I suspect you'll need to have a 'contract' in place with a property services company so housekeeper/cleaner has an immediate point of contact to deal with any issues with house that require fixing (plumbing/electrics etc) otherwise you'll be having to try and sort this yourself from France which isn't going to be easy in emergency situations.

Lots of things to be put in place.

[RC1807]

Thanks - all very useful to know, and greatly appreciated.

Russell

[TooMany2cvs]

aeropilot said:

and I suspect you'll need to have a 'contract' in place with a property services company so housekeeper/cleaner has an immediate point of contact to deal with any issues with house that require fixing (plumbing/electrics etc) otherwise you'll be having to try and sort this yourself from France which isn't going to be easy in emergency situations.

That shouldn't be too hard - talk to the (reputable) local property lettings agencies, and find out who they use.

[RC1807]

Just posted an update and it disappeared....

OK, a quick re-type

My wife's flying back to the UK today for the weekend. She needs to get stuff from her parents' home so they've clean clothes, etc., at hospital. There's no-one useful or with access to the house locally. (She's going this weekend as (a) it's needed, and (b) she doesn't want me to miss Le Mans next weekend. She's fking ace, my wife. )

Soton General have been great. They've really helped in ensuring my wife's kept updated and informed. That's a real stress reducer for her. MIL is being kept in hospital until the post-release care can be arranged as they agree there are dementia issues at play - not scored well in even some basic tests. We await the CT scan results. She will be moved to the geriatric ward with her husband as soon as there's a bed available.

I've been in a bit of a daze at work this week, where this is playing more on my mind than I thought it could/would.
(That's not very good for me as we're dealing with a lot of regulatory changes at work, so I've been reviewing supplier contracts together with my legal team. Let's hope I haven't fked something up! )

[aeropilot]

RC1807 said:

MIL is being kept in hospital until the post-release care can be arranged as they agree there are dementia issues at play - not scored well in even some basic tests.

If she's not scored well in basic test this early (as my Mum did) then the chances of her going home are reducing.......I think its best that you and your missus don't take it for granted that a 'care in the home' solution will be the outcome.

She will get worse and you need to look forward and make the best long term decision for both of them.

Hopefully, the social services team will help you make that decision, but, in my recent experience you have to accept that, that whatever decision you make will be a 'dammed if you do, dammed if you don't' scenario.
As you FiL is the one that is compos mentis so to speak, you need to focus on whats best for him, and talk it through wit him.
My Mum's sister and husband were both put in a home together in Scotland a few years before my Mum's dementia took hold, as her sister had dementia and her husband being in his late 80's couldn't cope anymore, so they both went into the same home. That gave him a few more years than it looked like he was going to get, as the weight of responsibility was suddenly removed from his shoulders, and he was able to have his own room and come and go from the home as he pleased, yet still be close to my Aunt, who being in her own little world, was really oblivious to what was really going on, and was looked after in a separate area in the home (with coded access as deprivation of liberty was in effect as per my Mum)

Its going to be a tough time for you and your family in the coming months/years, but trust your instincts, and you'll make the right decisions.

[CinnamonFan]

TooMany2cvs said:

RC1807 said:

Police suggest they get an ambulance out to check MIL for any infections - okaaaaay.... Not sure why that comes into effect, but this police officer seems to be keeping the MIL calm and may have dealt with this stuff before.

An hour or so later the phone rings again. Ambulance crew did a test for a urine infection and the MIL has one

Not a great surprise - dehydration and UTIs do cause and exacerbate memory problems. Old, vulnerable people forget to drink, or don't want to because going for a pee is too much hassle...

Or peeing hurts due to the infection!

Its very common in older generations, especially women.

[RC1807]

Hospital didn't find any urinary infection, so that's a bit of a confusing one on its own.



My wife's went to see her parents yesterday. MIL was visiting her husband's ward, so that made it easier.

MIL couldn't recall why she's at the hospital, so my wife explained it to her in front of her dad - the confusion, the 999 call, etc. As my MIL went to the loo, my FIL told my wife that he didn't realise her memory issues were so bad, and he now understands why she's still in hospital, and as much as he wants to go home, he simply can't.

That understanding is pivotal to getting them to accept carers are needed.

Social services, I think, now have a set of house keys so they can go in and make an assessment of what's needed in the house - bed, showering facilities, stairlift, etc., all of which my in laws can easily afford, and they now desperately need so my FIL can be clean and get to/from bed.

The Lasting PoAs (medical and financial) is a discussion for today.

[aeropilot]

RC1807 said:

Hospital didn't find any urinary infection, so that's a bit of a confusing one on its own.

It might mean she's further down the dementia route that you realise - sadly.

Have the psychiatric dept finished doing all the dementia tests, or have they still got some more to do?

They should give you a report. This can be a quite distressing thing to read depending on how bad the condition has got to, so be prepared.

They will need to have them finished so the social services team can make the correct assessmement of their home, as it maybe that they'll need to fit key code entry/exit system on the doosr if its deemed she is liable to wander off and then not know where she is etc.

[TooMany2cvs]

RC1807 said:

The Lasting PoAs (medical and financial) is a discussion for today.

Good luck. Sounds like you're in time for FiL, at least. Hopefully, MiL is still capable of wrapping her head around the concept and giving consent.

[RC1807]

FIL said he put an LPA in place about a year ago, in readiness, but he can't remember where he put the document...I think he meant he's changed the executor of their Wills, so my wife needs to check with their solicitor and IFA.

[TooMany2cvs]

RC1807 said:

FIL said he put an LPA in place about a year ago, in readiness, but he can't remember where he put the document...I think he meant he's changed the executor of their Wills, so my wife needs to check with their solicitor and IFA.

Also check with the OPG. If it exists, you can order a copy.

[aeropilot]

RC1807 said:

FIL said he put an LPA in place about a year ago, in readiness, but he can't remember where he put the document...I think he meant he's changed the executor of their Wills, so my wife needs to check with their solicitor and IFA.

LPA doesn't work like that, as the person(s) that are nominated as LPA will receive a letter from the OPG etc once forms are processed (which would likely have been your wife and/or her brother), so yes, I suspect he is thinking about will executor as you say.

[RC1807]

Thanks both
No letters received, so ulikely it's any PoA

[aeropilot]

RC1807 said:

Thanks both
No letters received, so ulikely it's any PoA

Not unless he/they gave PoA to the executor of the will - rather than your wife/her brother?
That's not really something anyone would do though unless you had no children/direct/immediate family.....?

[TooMany2cvs]

aeropilot said:

Not unless he/they gave PoA to the executor of the will - rather than your wife/her brother?
That's not really something anyone would do though unless you had no children/direct/immediate family.....?

The executor might be somebody who also has PoA, but PoA ceases the moment of death.

[aeropilot]

TooMany2cvs said:

aeropilot said:

Not unless he/they gave PoA to the executor of the will - rather than your wife/her brother?
That's not really something anyone would do though unless you had no children/direct/immediate family.....?

The executor might be somebody who also has PoA, but PoA ceases the moment of death.

Indeed, I was merely pointing out it would be a strange thing to do, unless your children were estranged (doesn't seem to be the case with respect to OP's wife) or their weren't any etc.