Help with elderly relatives - Parkinson's + Dementia issues?
Discussion
I'd be interested to know if there is any medication which triggers symptoms of dementia.
In several cases, one is that of a family member. The patient went into hospital feeling mentally well showing no symptoms for minor treatment such as stomach ulcer. Within a week or two of being in hospital they had turned into a shell. Diagnosed with dementia several weeks later and within a few months they couldn't remember the name of their closest family. Then it was all downhill.
It could be a cruel coincidence but just something tells me some medication can bring underlying symptoms to the surface.
In several cases, one is that of a family member. The patient went into hospital feeling mentally well showing no symptoms for minor treatment such as stomach ulcer. Within a week or two of being in hospital they had turned into a shell. Diagnosed with dementia several weeks later and within a few months they couldn't remember the name of their closest family. Then it was all downhill.
It could be a cruel coincidence but just something tells me some medication can bring underlying symptoms to the surface.
BlueHave said:
I'd be interested to know if there is any medication which triggers symptoms of dementia.
In several cases, one is that of a family member. The patient went into hospital feeling mentally well showing no symptoms for minor treatment such as stomach ulcer. Within a week or two of being in hospital they had turned into a shell. Diagnosed with dementia several weeks later and within a few months they couldn't remember the name of their closest family. Then it was all downhill.
It could be a cruel coincidence but just something tells me some medication can bring underlying symptoms to the surface.
A large part of it is just having the daily routine removed from them - the autopilot is all that's holding them up.In several cases, one is that of a family member. The patient went into hospital feeling mentally well showing no symptoms for minor treatment such as stomach ulcer. Within a week or two of being in hospital they had turned into a shell. Diagnosed with dementia several weeks later and within a few months they couldn't remember the name of their closest family. Then it was all downhill.
It could be a cruel coincidence but just something tells me some medication can bring underlying symptoms to the surface.
TooMany2cvs said:
BlueHave said:
I'd be interested to know if there is any medication which triggers symptoms of dementia.
In several cases, one is that of a family member. The patient went into hospital feeling mentally well showing no symptoms for minor treatment such as stomach ulcer. Within a week or two of being in hospital they had turned into a shell. Diagnosed with dementia several weeks later and within a few months they couldn't remember the name of their closest family. Then it was all downhill.
It could be a cruel coincidence but just something tells me some medication can bring underlying symptoms to the surface.
A large part of it is just having the daily routine removed from them - the autopilot is all that's holding them up.In several cases, one is that of a family member. The patient went into hospital feeling mentally well showing no symptoms for minor treatment such as stomach ulcer. Within a week or two of being in hospital they had turned into a shell. Diagnosed with dementia several weeks later and within a few months they couldn't remember the name of their closest family. Then it was all downhill.
It could be a cruel coincidence but just something tells me some medication can bring underlying symptoms to the surface.
And while unusual, the condition can be very slow at first with only small impact, and then get dramatically worsen in the space of a few months, which is what happened with my Mum.
She went from being able to get the bus to go shopping on her own, and being 'just a bit forgetful about a few things' to having to be put in full time dementia nursing care in the space of just 3 months. She died within 9 months of going into the home.
Yet, there were others in that home that had been in there for 6-7 years, and hadn't dramatically worsened since being admitted.
aeropilot said:
TooMany2cvs said:
BlueHave said:
I'd be interested to know if there is any medication which triggers symptoms of dementia.
In several cases, one is that of a family member. The patient went into hospital feeling mentally well showing no symptoms for minor treatment such as stomach ulcer. Within a week or two of being in hospital they had turned into a shell. Diagnosed with dementia several weeks later and within a few months they couldn't remember the name of their closest family. Then it was all downhill.
It could be a cruel coincidence but just something tells me some medication can bring underlying symptoms to the surface.
A large part of it is just having the daily routine removed from them - the autopilot is all that's holding them up.In several cases, one is that of a family member. The patient went into hospital feeling mentally well showing no symptoms for minor treatment such as stomach ulcer. Within a week or two of being in hospital they had turned into a shell. Diagnosed with dementia several weeks later and within a few months they couldn't remember the name of their closest family. Then it was all downhill.
It could be a cruel coincidence but just something tells me some medication can bring underlying symptoms to the surface.
And while unusual, the condition can be very slow at first with only small impact, and then get dramatically worsen in the space of a few months, which is what happened with my Mum.
She went from being able to get the bus to go shopping on her own, and being 'just a bit forgetful about a few things' to having to be put in full time dementia nursing care in the space of just 3 months. She died within 9 months of going into the home.
Yet, there were others in that home that had been in there for 6-7 years, and hadn't dramatically worsened since being admitted.
On the other hand if you have the money you can go private then you could potentially slow down the progress and have a few more precious years.
BlueHave said:
On the other hand if you have the money you can go private then you could potentially slow down the progress and have a few more precious years.
Even assuming it's "just" Alz, I wouldn't put too much faith in Aricept/donepezil...And that's IF the person remembers to take their pills and/or has somebody on hand to remind them.
Drugs work differently for everyone, with any condition / illness.
My MIL's on something that's meant to make her feel less agitated. It's clearly not working!
Convinced though she is that her prior usual routine would help her, MIL forgets every day that her husband died in November.
My wife, feeling guilty that her Mum's miserable in the (superb care) home, started looking at F/T live in carers and smaller houses for her Mum to move to - back in f
king Romsey!! I had to put my foot down that I'm not driving back to Romsey every few weeks to fix something, install something, or interview new carers because her Mum's pissed them off! I couldn't believe we took such a backward step. 
Financially, to save for daughters going to Uni, I really need my wife to go back to work full time - after 17 years at home - not to be fking off to the UK every few weeks to sort stuff for her Mum in a house or apartment her Mum couldn't deal with.
(Unless my wife wants to be the live in carer on £30k/p.a.?
)
FINALLY talked back to sense: sell the house, (some) stuff in storage - as little as possible - and a house clearer for the rest.
Money in the bank. JOB JOBBED!
My MIL's on something that's meant to make her feel less agitated. It's clearly not working!
Convinced though she is that her prior usual routine would help her, MIL forgets every day that her husband died in November.
My wife, feeling guilty that her Mum's miserable in the (superb care) home, started looking at F/T live in carers and smaller houses for her Mum to move to - back in f
king Romsey!! I had to put my foot down that I'm not driving back to Romsey every few weeks to fix something, install something, or interview new carers because her Mum's pissed them off! I couldn't believe we took such a backward step. Financially, to save for daughters going to Uni, I really need my wife to go back to work full time - after 17 years at home - not to be f
king off to the UK every few weeks to sort stuff for her Mum in a house or apartment her Mum couldn't deal with. (Unless my wife wants to be the live in carer on £30k/p.a.?
)FINALLY talked back to sense: sell the house, (some) stuff in storage - as little as possible - and a house clearer for the rest.
Money in the bank. JOB JOBBED!
RC1807 said:
Drugs work differently for everyone, with any condition / illness.
My MIL's on something that's meant to make her feel less agitated. It's clearly not working!
Convinced though she is that her prior usual routine would help her, MIL forgets every day that her husband died in November.
My wife, feeling guilty that her Mum's miserable in the (superb care) home, started looking at F/T live in carers and smaller houses for her Mum to move to - back in fking Romsey!! I had to put my foot down that I'm not driving back to Romsey every few weeks to fix something, install something, or interview new carers because her Mum's pissed them off! I couldn't believe we took such a backward step.
Financially, to save for daughters going to Uni, I really need my wife to go back to work full time - after 17 years at home - not to be fking off to the UK every few weeks to sort stuff for her Mum in a house or apartment her Mum couldn't deal with.
(Unless my wife wants to be the live in carer on £30k/p.a.? )
FINALLY talked back to sense: sell the house, (some) stuff in storage - as little as possible - and a house clearer for the rest.
Money in the bank. JOB JOBBED!
My MIL's on something that's meant to make her feel less agitated. It's clearly not working!
Convinced though she is that her prior usual routine would help her, MIL forgets every day that her husband died in November.
My wife, feeling guilty that her Mum's miserable in the (superb care) home, started looking at F/T live in carers and smaller houses for her Mum to move to - back in f
king Romsey!! I had to put my foot down that I'm not driving back to Romsey every few weeks to fix something, install something, or interview new carers because her Mum's pissed them off! I couldn't believe we took such a backward step. Financially, to save for daughters going to Uni, I really need my wife to go back to work full time - after 17 years at home - not to be f
king off to the UK every few weeks to sort stuff for her Mum in a house or apartment her Mum couldn't deal with. (Unless my wife wants to be the live in carer on £30k/p.a.?
)FINALLY talked back to sense: sell the house, (some) stuff in storage - as little as possible - and a house clearer for the rest.
Money in the bank. JOB JOBBED!
I hated having to put my Mum in a home, it will haunt me for the rest of my days, because I know she dreaded the thought when she was compos mentis........but, the reality of the situation was that he finances were tied up in a decaying property, and she couldn't have financed a live-in carer....actually you need two, as she needed 24/7 care, and they won't work 24/7 obviously.
That's not even considering the impact on my own life trying to split time looking after her property as well my own and hold down a job.
Other surviving members of her family were also more wary of the live-in carer situation than any issues with care homes, so I think in many cases it is the only practical option.
I hear you, aeropilot 
Yes, 2 carers needed. Suddenly, £1,000/week for a wonderful care home and limited stress (for us) doesn't seem quite so costly.
MIL still wants to head back to Romsey, but since FIL's gone now, there's NO reason for her to be there, hence why we moved her to that new home in Bormuff.
It's not as if my outlaws were in any way "social butterflies". When they retired, aside from a few holidays, they shut themselves away in their house and kept to themselves, only with "Hello" to their immediate neighbours. That's very unlike my Mum & stepdad who are always travelling, out and about with different activities and groups, big dinner parties every month, etc.
Yes, 2 carers needed. Suddenly, £1,000/week for a wonderful care home and limited stress (for us) doesn't seem quite so costly.
MIL still wants to head back to Romsey, but since FIL's gone now, there's NO reason for her to be there, hence why we moved her to that new home in Bormuff.
It's not as if my outlaws were in any way "social butterflies". When they retired, aside from a few holidays, they shut themselves away in their house and kept to themselves, only with "Hello" to their immediate neighbours. That's very unlike my Mum & stepdad who are always travelling, out and about with different activities and groups, big dinner parties every month, etc.
RC1807 said:
MIL still wants to head back to Romsey, but since FIL's gone now, there's NO reason for her to be there, hence why we moved her to that new home in Bormuff.
Just keep telling her she is in Romsey.She can't get out to find out she isn't, she won't remember as she can't remember her husband is gone etc.
Its about learning the art of deception....to make their life 'seem' to be what ever it needs to be in their head...........the truth or reality is meaningless to them now.
When I had two days to make a decision about which home of the 3 available to me, the one I chose was close to Heathrow airport and almost right under the flightpath. The home manager that showed me around was trying to play down the 747 that passed overhead when we were looking around the garden, but I said, actually, that might help, as I told her my Mum's house was under the old now unused cross runway at Heathrow, and she loved watching the aircraft overhead, and it might jog her distant memory and make her think she is still living at home, not in a home.
The manager said, that things like that are sometimes a big help in settling people in, and it did indeed turn out that way, often Mum used to mention the aircraft overhead and clearly her mind made that connection to home, rather than the fact that she was now in an area she really wouldn't have know when she was compos mentis.
As I said, its all about smoke and mirrors now with your MiL, not reality.
We're still at the stage of trying to convince my mother, who's 72, that she needs to get more time in from carers to help look after my dad who has Lewy Bodies. Sometimes he seems fine but other times he suffers from hallucinations and doesn't have a clue what's going one. He's needed pretty much full time care since before Christmas, and I while can see why my mother doesn't really want other people looking after him when she can do it, it means she's now pretty much tied to the house except for half a day every fortnight.
She feels it's crazy forking out £75 for a carer so she can go to her book club evening for example, but we're convinced she needs a bit of time to herself. I think she's coming round to the idea though and thanks to an old family friend who lives locally she's now planning to look at homes that will do a few days/nights respite care to see how well he copes with it. She feels bad evening thinking about putting him in a home though
She feels it's crazy forking out £75 for a carer so she can go to her book club evening for example, but we're convinced she needs a bit of time to herself. I think she's coming round to the idea though and thanks to an old family friend who lives locally she's now planning to look at homes that will do a few days/nights respite care to see how well he copes with it. She feels bad evening thinking about putting him in a home though
Rizzo, In relation to a carer to help your Mum, My mother looked after Dad with our help for about 6 years after a FTL Dementia diagnosis, we moved them around the corner to help (we were unable to move) with instructions to call, anytime day or night, after initial reluctance this happened once, then twice, then more frequently until she was no-longer 'ashamed' of having to ask for help. Things deteriated , and started to have implications for mum, we got her respite for a week a few times, and it helped a bit. In the end it was a hospital stay for dad due to pneumonia (weather was about 30 degrees so hot) that we had to say we were unsure of how long this could continue, she was having a couple of hours sleep a night due to his confusion. The biggest issue was feeding and drinking as asperating into his lungs causing repeated bouts of infection. The Docs took mum aside and said that unfortunately he needed full time medical care.When we moved them we knew we had one of the best nursing homes around the corner and had ensured dad could be 'accomodated'.
Mum took years to get over the fact she was unable to cope to the end. Ironically we have had to do the same for my wifes father as its one of the few with a secure area. Mum passed away there after a fight against cancer a couple of months ago (she was there just under a week having spent the last 6 months with us.) The effects of being a full time carer can not be underestimated, it controls your every move and thought, with constant thoughts are you doing enough, all you can. It has efects on your body also as you have to 'live with' ailments as you dont have time to do anything or have the time to ensure a recovery. I would suggest its time to start looking so you dont have to make decisions in an emergency situation which you may be forced into.
Mum took years to get over the fact she was unable to cope to the end. Ironically we have had to do the same for my wifes father as its one of the few with a secure area. Mum passed away there after a fight against cancer a couple of months ago (she was there just under a week having spent the last 6 months with us.) The effects of being a full time carer can not be underestimated, it controls your every move and thought, with constant thoughts are you doing enough, all you can. It has efects on your body also as you have to 'live with' ailments as you dont have time to do anything or have the time to ensure a recovery. I would suggest its time to start looking so you dont have to make decisions in an emergency situation which you may be forced into.
Ozzie Dave said:
The effects of being a full time carer can not be underestimated, it controls your every move and thought, with constant thoughts are you doing enough, all you can. It has effects on your body also as you have to 'live with' ailments as you don't have time to do anything or have the time to ensure a recovery. I would suggest its time to start looking so you dont have to make decisions in an emergency situation which you may be forced into.
I honestly hadn't realised how much effort it was for her until just recently. He had a bit of a turn after Christmas that meant he wasn't really safe to use the stairs any more, so was more or less confined upstairs for a couple of weeks until they got the stair lift fitted. He's now able to get up and down again so she's got a bit more freedom too. Lewy Bodies apparently means his situation changes rapidly, I was over yesterday and he seemed really well, and able to hold a conversation, until he got tired and started to get confused They're going to look at a place offering respite care this week, and I think she's coming round to the idea that she should either use that, or a live in carer (she's currently got someone doing an hour 3 times a week to help him get up and showered, and a half day once a fortnight at the moment) for a night or two occasionally to start getting him used to it.
Trouble is my sister lives about 2.5 hours away and I'm 45 mins away most weekends but abroad all week. They moved a few years ago and are now close to the area they were both from, so have a lot of friends around, although most of them are 70 or so now too.
Rizzo: live in carers have their uses, certainly, but you also have to be comfortable that your mum's getting the right help / all the help she needs. Of course, you'll need 1 carers as they split the 24h. Good luck. Interested to know how that works out, please.
DoL now in place for MIL. She remains miserable at the care home, not helped that her sister keeps trying to justify everything when she calls, and that sets the MIL off again.
The carers are having to use deflection now as she regularly forgets where John is, so it's now played down.
FIL's Will still being worked on. Some of his annuity providers (right term?) requested proof of Probate, so have stopped payments until that's provided. Fortunately there's enough £ in the bank to payu the care home in the meantime.
Does anyone have any insight into carehome fee annuities?
Good, bad?
Trusted/used providers?
(Mrs RC seems set on sorting something out for her Mum; I'm not sure it will be needed given the pension income passed on from FIL and the potential (slow) drain on resources already in the bank and what my MIL will have when her house is sold, but I'm not to be involved )
DoL now in place for MIL. She remains miserable at the care home, not helped that her sister keeps trying to justify everything when she calls, and that sets the MIL off again.
The carers are having to use deflection now as she regularly forgets where John is, so it's now played down.
FIL's Will still being worked on. Some of his annuity providers (right term?) requested proof of Probate, so have stopped payments until that's provided. Fortunately there's enough £ in the bank to payu the care home in the meantime.
Does anyone have any insight into carehome fee annuities?
Good, bad?
Trusted/used providers?
(Mrs RC seems set on sorting something out for her Mum; I'm not sure it will be needed given the pension income passed on from FIL and the potential (slow) drain on resources already in the bank and what my MIL will have when her house is sold, but I'm not to be involved
)RC1807 said:
Does anyone have any insight into carehome fee annuities?
Good, bad?
Trusted/used providers?
(Mrs RC seems set on sorting something out for her Mum; I'm not sure it will be needed given the pension income passed on from FIL and the potential (slow) drain on resources already in the bank and what my MIL will have when her house is sold, but I'm not to be involved )
If you're not to be involved, it may well be best to take heed...Good, bad?
Trusted/used providers?
(Mrs RC seems set on sorting something out for her Mum; I'm not sure it will be needed given the pension income passed on from FIL and the potential (slow) drain on resources already in the bank and what my MIL will have when her house is sold, but I'm not to be involved
)I'm with you on the scepticism. Anything like this is, of course, a gamble on the part of the provider. They take an educated guess as to how long your MiL is going to last, figure what that'll cost, add a chunk on, and that's what you pay. You are gambling that she lasts substantially longer than they think...
Think of it as a second-hand Gran warranty.
TooMany2cvs said:
If you're not to be involved, it may well be best to take heed...
I'm with you on the scepticism. Anything like this is, of course, a gamble on the part of the provider. They take an educated guess as to how long your MiL is going to last, figure what that'll cost, add a chunk on, and that's what you pay. You are gambling that she lasts substantially longer than they think...
Think of it as a second-hand Gran warranty.
Thanks. I'm not alone! I'm with you on the scepticism. Anything like this is, of course, a gamble on the part of the provider. They take an educated guess as to how long your MiL is going to last, figure what that'll cost, add a chunk on, and that's what you pay. You are gambling that she lasts substantially longer than they think...
Think of it as a second-hand Gran warranty.
I think putting, say, £250k into an annuity that might pay 3% p.a. = £7.5k income is rather pointless if the £250k would be gone in the event of her death. That might be in 10 years. It might be in 10 months. You simply can't tell.
Even after 10 years, £250k paid out has only generated £75k income, so you're effectively down £175k!
RC1807 said:
Does anyone have any insight into carehome fee annuities?
Good, bad?
Trusted/used providers?
(Mrs RC seems set on sorting something out for her Mum; I'm not sure it will be needed given the pension income passed on from FIL and the potential (slow) drain on resources already in the bank and what my MIL will have when her house is sold, but I'm not to be involved )
I sort of looked at it, as similar situation when my Mum went in the home, but, like you I dismissed it as well for the same reasons you have.Good, bad?
Trusted/used providers?
(Mrs RC seems set on sorting something out for her Mum; I'm not sure it will be needed given the pension income passed on from FIL and the potential (slow) drain on resources already in the bank and what my MIL will have when her house is sold, but I'm not to be involved
)But, as you're not involved
you can file the issue under "I told you so" for later on......
RC1807 said:
I think putting, say, £250k into an annuity that might pay 3% p.a. = £7.5k income is rather pointless if the £250k would be gone in the event of her death. That might be in 10 years. It might be in 10 months. You simply can't tell.
Even after 10 years, £250k paid out has only generated £75k income, so you're effectively down £175k!
The annuity doesn't simply "spend the income", though - it gets through the capital, too. Think of the sums as very similar to an amortising loan or mortgage.Even after 10 years, £250k paid out has only generated £75k income, so you're effectively down £175k!
They'll say something along the (massively simplified) lines of "We expect her to need the fees paying for five years @ £25k/yr, so £125k payout. Add on 20% margin, so £150k premium."
Ignore the margin - that covers their costs/profit.
If she lasts 3yrs, then they've paid out £75k, so they're quids in by £50k.
If she lasts the predicted 5yrs, then they've paid out £125k, so they've broken even.
If she lasts 7yrs, then they've paid out £175k, so they've lost out by £50k.
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