Pull ups and press ups: how many can you do?

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bing said:

So age 42 weight about 74kgs

Pulls ups 20-25 neutral grip OR about 10-12 weighted pulls ups with a 20kg plate hanging from a belt
Push ups 50-60 OR about 25 weighted push ups with 30kgs on my back (20+10 plate)

Not read the entire thread or the above is good or not.


but then I do these regularly as part of my chest and back routine

20-25 is awesome.I have never seen anyone hit 20 good reps in the flesh.

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J4CKO said:

Its funny, I am sure most of the population see films and see the hero hoik themselves up easily from a ledge or other precarious situation, but most, if left hanging would be utterly screwed and could not pull themselves up, including me, but I think a lot do believe they could, if it was called for.

Amazing how different capability can be between people, even at the same age/gender/weight.

I bet they could, just once, but it would involve tearing some muscle. If you put a gun to my head, I would be able to do that 15th rep, I am certain!

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I blame you all for my very sore lats after going for a 15th rep and failing last night. Stuck at 14 but that was using my home pull up bar, which is terrible because I cannot stretch out my legs and do them "hollow core" (because my legs hit the ground) or even arch back much and do them to my chest (not sure why on that one - it just feels uncomfortable on that bar but not others). Those are my excuses.

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J4CKO said:

Taught Ladies plenty though....well, not really

I think we forget, over time as we get older, weaker, heavier and more sedentary how we cant do stuff we used to, remember hanging off the monkey bars at school ? quite happily hanging and going between each rung on the ladder, think we have it in our mind we could probably still do it, but as grown ups we never try it and if we do its a bit of a shock.

Like seeing that obstacle course thing on the telly, I wonder how many are thinking they could do it up and down the land, bet most would get a shock, in the animal kingdom, if you lose your capability you either end up as something elses lunch or cant catch your own, we are unique as a species in that we dont need to keep active to survive.

I worked at the Police for years, I was civilian but the coppers, some were a mess, they obviously met the standard when they got in back in 1980 but had let it go and didnt seem to be any incentive or requirement to keep on top of things.

No doubt about that. The average bloke thinks he could run a few kms at a good pace, give a good account of himself in a boxing ring and perform well in a gym. Nothing could be further from the truth. The average bloke would struggle to run a decent pace for even 200 metres, would be gassed after 30 seconds of boxing and cannot do a single decent pull up. I am very conscious that I'm a mess apart from at weightlifting and sprint rowing!

I am frankly amazed how weak most men are in the gym I attend, especially the young guys. A bodyweight bench press is a rare sight from anyone under 30, as is a respectable squat or deadlift or pull up. I saw some guys in their early twenties the other day half-squatting 40kg. And they've been going to the gym for months and months.

A lot of it is terrible programming and ego lifting, but there does seem to be something weird going on with young men. Too much screen time in their teens? Not enough sport in schools? Following some silly diet that prevents muscle growth?

No idea, really, but I am sure that most guys I knew in my early 20s were nothing like as weak as most of the guys I see these days. I remember one of my friends being very weak when he first went to the gym, but that was very much an exception.

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15 seems to be a real threshold. You don't see many who can do 16,17,18 or 19! I wonder whether it's that it takes serious training to get over 15, and, once there, 20 is the obvious target.
Diddlydoo making 20 wide arm pull ups at his weight is utterly insane. Film it, big man!

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garylythgoe said:

TheJimi said:

No idea what my max pullups is, as I've never actually made a point of trying. My usual rep range for pullups and chins is between 2-12 reps, depending on whether I'm doing them weighted or not (so far max weight is +50kg - target is to get +70kg)

Wait, you have added 50kg in additional weight to your 70-74kg? As in 50kg in iron/weight plates?

Absurdly strong. You would expect a 135kg+ bench press (nearly double bodyweight) from someone with a 125kg 2RM pull up at a bodyweight of 75kg.

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I decided to try some weighted pull ups yesterday after my 5 x 5 wide arm pull ups (super-setted with a 5 rep bodyweight bench). I dont think my back was tired, although I had also done squats, which do seem to hit me in the lats.

I found it very hard to do 5 reps with an added 16 kg (held between my feet so I could maintain good posture).

I thought that was pathetic until I considered relative to my bench press. My 5RM bench press is about 105kg (on a good day), and adding 16kg to my bodyweight gives about 97kg for a 5RM pull up. Not too far apart at all. I am quite pleased with that given that bench press is my strongest lift. A bit more work and my pull ups should catch up and overtake.

One point to consider for anyone doing pull ups and concerned about not getting much better - if you are doing a decent programme, your lower body will be getting quite a lot heavier. I have gained about 6kg of muscle in the last year or so. If half to two thirds of that is on my lower body, I have added 4kg of dead weight to my pull up, so I might have got quite a lot stronger without it showing in my max reps.

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He's a right nobhead, isn't he?

It's bad enough being so much weaker than the big strongmen types. But having a bicycle boy outlift you by a mile is just too much

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I wonder if there's a lesson to be taken from Marcus, though. He can do so much quality lifting because his CV fitness is insanely high, allowing him to recover fast between sets and between workouts.

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popeyewhite said:

Also Marcus weighs fk all and practices pullups like an obsession Sorry, someone had to say it. I reckon if you're > 90kg and get anything above 15 decent widegrip pullups you're in the top 2% of gymgoers. That's very good going. Another thing is many lifters do pullups as their last back exercise precisely so they don't have to go beyond 8/10 reps. Reasons are 1. Pullups can exacerbate any shoulder or chest injury and bicep injury, so doing them last makes sense when you're not going to get many reps, and 2. Because the shoulder joint rotates into a weak position on a pullup it's very easy to injure it and the long head of the bicep tendon if you start putting heavy weights on a belt and pulling them as well. CV fitness will help with multiple high rep sets undoubtedly.

I would be surprised if 1 in 500 big guys can get 15 decent wide arm pull ups...if we are talking about full ROM. As I have said before, a lot of very big guys do very jerky and short ROM pull ups (understandably given how much they weigh!)

The risks posed by pull ups and chins can be reduced greatly by using a bit of care at the top and bottom of the ROM - keeping the shoulders down at the bottom of the rep and not over-pulling at the top (i.e. do not take the chest to the bar). I use too much ROM at the top, for example, and am going to try to shorten it a bit by keeping my chest 2-3 inches below the bar.

I expect most guys that can do 15 or so pull ups would do themselves a lot of favours by doing really strict and fairly slow sets of 5-8 rather than going for lots of reps.

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popeyewhite said:

It's not an advantage to weigh less when doing bodyweight pullups?

Trade off between upper body strength (where additional muscle mass is a plus) and weight lifted (where all additional mass is a negative).

I imagine that a complex formula could give us the optimum weight at a given height.

My best guess is that it would be quite low. I think I could be quite a lot weaker and still do more pull ups if I was 10kg lighter.

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But there is no doubt that the guys banging out loads of pull ups (20 plus) are almost all very light. 70kgs or so.

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Halb said:

withered geriatric husks compared to real men....

Shouldn't you be off somewhere eating or doing a crossfit workout?

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Another factor is resilience to intensive training.

If I did thousands of pull ups in a month, my shoulders and elbows would disintegrate.

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TheJimi said:

Heh!

I reckon Hal wins.

Where's the Smiffster? Assuming an uninjured state, wonder how many he could do?

Yo Smiffster!

He can do them with 150kg, which is not quite bodyweight, unfortunately.

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It was a very bad joke at his expense, suggesting he weighs more than 150kg so cannot do any.

I'll get my coat.

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Pete102 said:

Out of interest, those who are achieving high reps / additional weight - what are your deadlift numbers? and also what accessory work would you recommend (assuming lat pull downs - anything else?)

As a heavier guy (95kg) I like to think my DL is reasonable (although it will pale into insignificance compared to others) it's just making that performance translate into pull ups etc.

For starters my max DL is 227.5kg. Recently I've lost 15kg in bodyweight which has knocked that number down to 215kg but obviously helped with the pullups!

My deadlift is very average.

I weigh 83kg and have a 1RM of 165kg. But that is limited by grip (as I don't use a mixed grip or straps). Legs and back could probably go a little heavier.

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RTB said:

I'm 78kg body weight and my 1RM for deadlift is ~170kg. To be honest the best thing for pullups is to lose bodyweight.

My weighted pullups (78kgs + 27.5kgs) is 105kgs, your weighted pullups are about the same given you're a lot heavier than me.

I'm not sure how a good deadlift would help you pullups, if anything a good bent over row weight would probably be more beneficial.

Depends how you do your pull-ups.

If you do Gironda pull-ups (pulling to sternum and arched back), bent over row would help a lot. You get a more horizontal line of pull.

If you do hollow body pull ups, the line of pull is probably more vertical and a bit more like a deadlift.

I did some sternum pulls ups yesterday and have re-injured the buggered up disc in my neck. No pull ups for me for some time.

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I agree.

You have to bear in mind that most people have huge improvements to be made from efficiency of movement and coordination, so practice at the target exercise will usually give the best results.

I don't entirely buy all the 'bringing up weak links' chat, at least not for beginner and intermediate guys. I'm sure that it becomes important once you are getting close to your limits, but I don't think most of us are near that.

One exception to that is maybe where you have so big an imbalance between different muscles that the stronger ones do all the work and so leave the weak ones under stimulated. I can just about believe that this may be true even for relatively weak people.