Keto diet - anyone else?

[FocusRS3]

So said:

There are naturally occurring hormones in meat and dairy. I am no vegan warrior by the way, I eat lots of animals. But I am wary about a diet high in animal products as a middle-aged man. I believe there is some evidence of a link between a high animal product diet and prostate problems.

I'm 50 and i'm also aware i need to pay more attention with this.

Less red meat, more chicken and fish and more salad to replace the spuds !

[So]

FocusRS3 said:

I'm 50 and i'm also aware i need to pay more attention with this.

Less red meat, more chicken and fish and more salad to replace the spuds !

You mentioned your missus by the way. Is she in her 50s too? I said that I find that keto makes ME look haggard, but that may be because I am in my 50s, male, quite a lot of partying behind me and during summer my body fat is low teens.

[FocusRS3]

So said:

You mentioned your missus by the way. Is she in her 50s too? I said that I find that keto makes ME look haggard, but that may be because I am in my 50s, male, quite a lot of partying behind me and during summer my body fat is low teens.

Yes she's literally just turns 50 but doesn't look it especially with all the slap on ! In fact she looks bloody amazing.

She has gone from 10.6 to 9.6.

What amazes me the most is that she cooks us all food then does herself something different to stick to the routine whereas i would pick at the kids food too.

So far today i've had a small soup from pret and two small bags of cashews. Tonight i may go meat heavy but will try and replace the potatoes with extra salad and strictly water.

I rarely have breakfast unless im hung over so i can go from 7pm till 12am the following day without eating.

I'm 50, 6ft 1 and 13 st 4LBS as of this morning

[grumbledoak]

FocusRS3 said:

I'm trying to re educate myself with choosing food as im a lazy bugger that takes the easy option.

I'm going to the Bike Shed tonight in London and rather than just order Burger/fries or Steak/fries with Mac and Cheese etc im taking a look at the menu now.

I'll try the Steak salad and replace the Potatoes with coleslaw but have some of the sides such as ribs and chicken wings. The goats cheese in Bread crumbs sound good too !

Sounds better.

Breadcrumbs are surprisingly high in carbs because they are toasted - no water weight means it's all carbs.

Coleslaw can be high in carbs too.

[FocusRS3]

grumbledoak said:

Sounds better.

Breadcrumbs are surprisingly high in carbs because they are toasted - no water weight means it's all carbs.

Coleslaw can be high in carbs too.

Bugger back to the menu again :-)

The Coleslaw was replacing the sauteed spuds.......

Edited by FocusRS3 on Monday 11th February 14:38

[grumbledoak]

So said:

There are naturally occurring hormones in meat and dairy. I am no vegan warrior by the way, I eat lots of animals. But I am wary about a diet high in animal products as a middle-aged man. I believe there is some evidence of a link between a high animal product diet and prostate problems.

I would be looking at sugar and sugary drinks for prostate problems, in a long list of things I suspect it causes. The industry has spent decades getting everything else blamed, but that might be coming to an end.

[Lemming Train]

FocusRS3 said:

Bugger back to the menu again :-)

The Coleslaw was replacing the sauteed spuds.......

Edited by FocusRS3 on Monday 11th February 14:38

You'll struggle to find anything 'keto' in most eateries. If you're having a main meal then a (meat) mixed grill is probably your best bet. When I was working away and doing an Atkins diet many years ago I would head to the nearest 'spoons and order a mixed grill. If you're really stuck then KFC is doable but you'll need strong willpower to resist the fries and only eat the actual chicken.

[So]

grumbledoak said:

So said:

There are naturally occurring hormones in meat and dairy. I am no vegan warrior by the way, I eat lots of animals. But I am wary about a diet high in animal products as a middle-aged man. I believe there is some evidence of a link between a high animal product diet and prostate problems.

I would be looking at sugar and sugary drinks for prostate problems, in a long list of things I suspect it causes. The industry has spent decades getting everything else blamed, but that might be coming to an end.

I haven't made a detailed study of it, but I think there is a fair amount of research pointing to dairy as high risk for prostate cancer. I think I have seen similar for red meat.

[FocusRS3]

Lemming Train said:

You'll struggle to find anything 'keto' in most eateries. If you're having a main meal then a (meat) mixed grill is probably your best bet. When I was working away and doing an Atkins diet many years ago I would head to the nearest 'spoons and order a mixed grill. If you're really stuck then KFC is doable but you'll need strong willpower to resist the fries and only eat the actual chicken.

So having just reviewed the menu again im going steak salad that comes with Mushrooms but just ordering extra mushrooms. There are nibbles to start with such as ribs and wings so ill go with them .
Water only too

[Mothersruin]

No problem in KFC, Maccy Dees however would be a far sterner test - best fries evah!

Anyway, first day. Black tea & coffee to lose the milk. Haven't been for a shop yet so using up what's knocking about and need to get some cream. morning snack of chicken slices and mayo, lunch of smoked salmon, scrambled eggs and broccoli.

[Lemming Train]

A question for Ian and Paul (or anyone else clued up on keto diet matters) : any tips on what to do when you suddenly stop losing weight and 'plateau'? I have dropped 112 to 104 but been stuck here for 2 weeks and can't break 104 unless I go on a full day fast of liquids only. I have been strict on the carnivore diet (+ cheese) since the start of the year and have kept up a good 1.5 kg loss per week until this month then come to a halt. Not had any 'treats' or anything carby. My meal sizes have dropped right down and I generally only have 1 per day and it's a small enough amount to fit on a side plate. Only feeling very slightly hungry so I would like to eat a little more but I can easily get through the day without eating which is what I've done yesterday and today to try to get my weight loss moving again. I do 30+ mins intense cardio most days but the rest of the time I'm not moving much. Is this plateau simply because the small amount I'm eating is the exact amount my body needs for fuel to function through the day hence not losing anything now? Any way to get it dropping again without even more exercise?

When I did Atkins diets years and years ago I easily lost 3 stone in 3 months by sticking rigidly to it but I was moving a lot more then as I was out on the road.

[LordGrover]

grumbledoak said:

I would be looking at sugar and sugary drinks for prostate problems, in a long list of things I suspect it causes. The industry has spent decades getting everything else blamed, but that might be coming to an end.

Indeed. The Warburg hypothesis is being recognised at long last - only taken a century.

[So]

Lemming Train said:

A question for Ian and Paul (or anyone else clued up on keto diet matters) : any tips on what to do when you suddenly stop losing weight and 'plateau'? I have dropped 112 to 104 but been stuck here for 2 weeks and can't break 104 unless I go on a full day fast of liquids only. I have been strict on the carnivore diet (+ cheese) since the start of the year and have kept up a good 1.5 kg loss per week until this month then come to a halt. Not had any 'treats' or anything carby. My meal sizes have dropped right down and I generally only have 1 per day and it's a small enough amount to fit on a side plate. Only feeling very slightly hungry so I would like to eat a little more but I can easily get through the day without eating which is what I've done yesterday and today to try to get my weight loss moving again. I do 30+ mins intense cardio most days but the rest of the time I'm not moving much. Is this plateau simply because the small amount I'm eating is the exact amount my body needs for fuel to function through the day hence not losing anything now? Any way to get it dropping again without even more exercise?

When I did Atkins diets years and years ago I easily lost 3 stone in 3 months by sticking rigidly to it but I was moving a lot more then as I was out on the road.

In the past when that has happened I've had a carb feast and then gone back to a low-carb diet. It has usually started things going again. If you don't fancy that, you could first try one bigger meal and see if that kick starts things again.

[grumbledoak]

So said:

I haven't made a detailed study of it, but I think there is a fair amount of research pointing to dairy as high risk for prostate cancer. I think I have seen similar for red meat.

The evidence against meat and dairy is very weak. So is the evidence against saturated fat, cholesterol, and salt. Huge industries prefer these as explanations to their own products taking the blame. And for decades they have held sway, and it has all become embedded in dietary guidelines. And obesity and diabetes and cancer just seem to go up and up and up.

I think the other theories should be considered.

[So]

grumbledoak said:

So said:

I haven't made a detailed study of it, but I think there is a fair amount of research pointing to dairy as high risk for prostate cancer. I think I have seen similar for red meat.

The evidence against meat and dairy is very weak. So is the evidence against saturated fat, cholesterol, and salt. Huge industries prefer these as explanations to their own products taking the blame. And for decades they have held sway, and it has all become embedded in dietary guidelines. And obesity and diabetes and cancer just seem to go up and up and up.

I think the other theories should be considered.

You may have done far more reading than I have, but 30 seconds of Googling produced:

https://prostate.net/articles/do-meat-and-dairy-fo...
"Results of research from Australia indicate that meat and dairy foods fuel prostate cancer, and the reason may be the presence of an amino acid. "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC27817...
"In conclusion, we found that consumption of red and processed meat was associated with increased risks of total and advanced prostate cancer. "

[liner33]

Plateaus are normal just keep doing what you know works

[LordGrover]

Lemming Train said:

A question for Ian and Paul (or anyone else clued up on keto diet matters) : any tips on what to do when you suddenly stop losing weight and 'plateau'? I have dropped 112 to 104 but been stuck here for 2 weeks and can't break 104 unless I go on a full day fast of liquids only. I have been strict on the carnivore diet (+ cheese) since the start of the year and have kept up a good 1.5 kg loss per week until this month then come to a halt. Not had any 'treats' or anything carby. My meal sizes have dropped right down and I generally only have 1 per day and it's a small enough amount to fit on a side plate. Only feeling very slightly hungry so I would like to eat a little more but I can easily get through the day without eating which is what I've done yesterday and today to try to get my weight loss moving again. I do 30+ mins intense cardio most days but the rest of the time I'm not moving much. Is this plateau simply because the small amount I'm eating is the exact amount my body needs for fuel to function through the day hence not losing anything now? Any way to get it dropping again without even more exercise?

When I did Atkins diets years and years ago I easily lost 3 stone in 3 months by sticking rigidly to it but I was moving a lot more then as I was out on the road.

I'm probably not a lot of help, as I'm low carb for health rather than fat loss. I am down about 10 kgs over the last year with which I'm pretty happy, but it's not been a linear loss. Over the course of the year or so I've been 'low carb', ketogenic and carnivore - all this after a 14 month experiment eating strictly vegan. After that, the only way was up - not weight-wise, but every other way imaginable.
Eating strictly carnivore I found the same as you - after a month or two my appetite reduced significantly. This has happened both times I went zero carb. My guess is once that happened, my metabolism slowed to match the reduced intake - hence a 'new' homeostasis or body set-point.
I'm not far from my 'ideal' body composition at 186 cm, 73 kgs and 80cm waist (6'1", 160 lbs, 31"). The numbers are good, but I still have a little paunch that my vanity would prefer were gone, but I'm 56 years old so can't really expect to have the physique of a twenty year old.
I'd suggest you stick with it (plateaux are common and expected), or change one thing as an experiment - if you change many things at once you wont know what worked. Maybe try re-introducing some properly prepared starchy carbs for a day or two? Steam/boil/bake some taters, allow them to cool and refrigerate before eating.
Best of luck anyway.

[Lemming Train]

liner33 said:

Plateaus are normal just keep doing what you know works

How do you get past them? What is the 'trigger'? Should I do as 'So' suggests and have a carb feast to see if that kickstarts it? Tempting as it is I'm acutely aware of how quickly weight piles back on when you switch back to carbs and I fear I'll be back where I started at the turn of the year and have to do it all over again .

[grumbledoak]

Lemming Train said:

How do you get past them? What is the 'trigger'? Should I do as 'So' suggests and have a carb feast to see if that kickstarts it? Tempting as it is I'm acutely aware of how quickly weight piles back on when you switch back to carbs and I fear I'll be back where I started at the turn of the year and have to do it all over again .

I wouldn't. I would wait it out.

Edit, sorry, you are ZC! I would have a check on calories and make sure you aren't eating too few.

Edited by grumbledoak on Monday 11th February 18:48

[liner33]

Lemming Train said:

How do you get past them? What is the 'trigger'? Should I do as 'So' suggests and have a carb feast to see if that kickstarts it? Tempting as it is I'm acutely aware of how quickly weight piles back on when you switch back to carbs and I fear I'll be back where I started at the turn of the year and have to do it all over again .

As long as you aren't eating too much then the weight will come off , plateaus are normal on every diet there is nothing you can do to kickstart it , there is absolutely no logic to eating more WTF ???