Keto diet - anyone else?
Discussion
grumbledoak said:
maxwellwd said:
Hi all, looking for some advice here. I have pretty high cholesterol whereby I have to take statins and have done for about 3/4 years
It is more of a genetic issue with me rather than diet & lifestyle. (38 years old) My question is, can a Keto diet help with Cholesterol? It is something I have vaguely looked at before and have followed this thread on and off for the last year, but keen to get contributors thoughts on this
Ideally I would rather take statins every other day as they do cause muscle stiffness/cramps but going to the gym and taking ZMA supplements alleviates this somewhat, would love to not have to keep taking them though
I've been on statins. The side effects caused me to read quite a lot about them. You might want to start here:It is more of a genetic issue with me rather than diet & lifestyle. (38 years old) My question is, can a Keto diet help with Cholesterol? It is something I have vaguely looked at before and have followed this thread on and off for the last year, but keen to get contributors thoughts on this
Ideally I would rather take statins every other day as they do cause muscle stiffness/cramps but going to the gym and taking ZMA supplements alleviates this somewhat, would love to not have to keep taking them though
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Cholesterol-Dr-Malc...
tl;dr - it turns out that total serum cholesterol, or the LDL component, are very poor predictors of coronary heart disease - the big fear of the day back in the 1950s. You heard about cholesterol because it was "bigged up", because the pharma companies knew of compounds that would reduce those readings. The numbers needed to treat (NNT) are high, and the side effects are worse than generally admitted. But they've made billions selling them! Ka-ching! We're only hearing the truth now they are falling out of patent, just in time for the next wonder drug, PCSK9s, but I digress.
A far better predictor of mortality is TG:HDL - that is the ratio of triglycerides to HDL cholesterol. High triglycerides being a "bad" sign and high HDL a "good" one. A ketogenic diet can help you here. Because triglycerides *are* driven by diet - dietary carbs in fact - and a keto diet will remove those carbs.
Obviously I don't know your readings, but maybe talk with your doctor about which readings are prompting the statins and ask about measuring your TG:HDL? Some doctors are much more open than others to lifestyle and diet change, or to the bad news about the wonder drug. But they might be interested in your blood work before and after three months of strict keto...
Best of luck.
I need to get the levels broken down, all I can recall is that he said my serum cholesterol was high
Really want to contain it without the medication, is there any other information out then around a Keto diet/lowering cholesterol? What I have read suggests lots of benefits for Keto but no evidence in aiding cholesterol levels
Back on Keto here... last did it in Oct/Nov where I lost 8.7kg. Im now going again for a few months in a bit to rediscover my long lost abs...
Started yesterday with a lovely Rib-eye, Creamy Stilton Sauce, Chorizo peppers and some rabbit food!
I love Keto - it just absolutely works with my body and I feel great whilst on it.
Started yesterday with a lovely Rib-eye, Creamy Stilton Sauce, Chorizo peppers and some rabbit food!
I love Keto - it just absolutely works with my body and I feel great whilst on it.
About 9 days into my first try of the Keto way of life and i am starting to feel like I’m over carb-withdrawl.
I did start back on the weights today, does anyone else life whilst on Keto and IF? I did my training at the end of my fast, but before eating and felt as strong as ever.
I’m worried I shouldn’t be lifting whilst fasting - I don’t want to risk injury.
I did start back on the weights today, does anyone else life whilst on Keto and IF? I did my training at the end of my fast, but before eating and felt as strong as ever.
I’m worried I shouldn’t be lifting whilst fasting - I don’t want to risk injury.
I've been s
t for the last couple of months.
A combination of visiting family who don't make concessions for what I'd normally eat which also encompassed Christmas.
And a week skiing in the Alps where, again, it's quite hard to be properly keto in Alpine restaurants. I decided, tho, that since Christmas had definitely knocked me out of ketosis, I might as well enjoy the tartiflette and croissants with a view to getting back on the wagon in the new year.
Need to get out and run more too. I had a minor op in September which meant I shouldn't/couldn't run till at least November but other stuff got in the way. Got a new head torch arriving today so will go out tonight and run in the dark. Just need to get off my arse and do it
t for the last couple of months.A combination of visiting family who don't make concessions for what I'd normally eat which also encompassed Christmas.
And a week skiing in the Alps where, again, it's quite hard to be properly keto in Alpine restaurants. I decided, tho, that since Christmas had definitely knocked me out of ketosis, I might as well enjoy the tartiflette and croissants with a view to getting back on the wagon in the new year.
Need to get out and run more too. I had a minor op in September which meant I shouldn't/couldn't run till at least November but other stuff got in the way. Got a new head torch arriving today so will go out tonight and run in the dark. Just need to get off my arse and do it
Stupeo said:
I don't - I am more worried about how low glycogen levels may impact performance/ability to lift safely. I guess I just need to make sure I de-load from my normal lifts and take it easier.
You might feel weak during the transition period, when your body doesn't have the fuel it is used to. After that, no real difference for most of us. Just don't warm up juggling 50kg kettle bells.
grumbledoak said:
Still ZC/carnivore, but not "Beef, salt, water". It was a bit trickier while travelling over Christmas but back on it now I'm home.
I've been a little lax, especially over the Christmas period - not veg or fruit but junk like sweets and chocolate, though I did have traditional xmas dinner including veggies.Last winter when I was proper full on carno I was fit as a flea, no colds or anything. This year I've had flu and a couple of colds in a couple of months. May be coincidence, but I don't think so.
Back to zero carb for me. Going to quit coffee too and stick to water.
Well having read a massive stack of data and expert opinions on both sides of the low carb debate, since i first asked the question on another now closed thread, it seems that Keto can be good for weight loss and, also, for endurance sport, since we can't store that much glucose but we have a lot of fat we can draw on for a long period.
The downsides highlighted by many doctors and dieticians/nutritionists include a limited food range difficult to keep to sufficiently over time to stay IN Ketosis.
The high risk of dangerous cholesterol levels if done for more than say 6 months.
The risk of becoming Glucose-intolerant, which could be a major worry.
The fact that lots of cheap meat (which many will buy) means lots of nasty ingredients.
The kidneys could also suffer because of the way the Ketosis-state body works with it.
The lack of fibre and calcium which, whilst can be artificially boosted, cannot be healthily reciprocated Vs a non Keto diet.
Keto Flu can last only 10 days but also 3 months, also known as the change over period. Many people don't want that. 10 days was more than enough for my partner.
My wife came off this diet after 10 days of sheer hell and has switched to a low calorie, moderate carb, moderate protein and low fat diet with smaller portions instead.
Within 2 days the light-headedness has gone and she is enjoying food again.
Bottom line is this. In the 2020 'best world 35 diets' as chosen by a panel of international related experts, the Med Diet came top for the 4th year running.
Keto 34th!!! It faired well for weight loss but very poorly for safety and other aspects. Oh and it was 34th last year too. Only the Dukan faired worse both years.
That's pretty tough to argue with but if those on Keto feel great then fine. But beware the long term risks.
The downsides highlighted by many doctors and dieticians/nutritionists include a limited food range difficult to keep to sufficiently over time to stay IN Ketosis.
The high risk of dangerous cholesterol levels if done for more than say 6 months.
The risk of becoming Glucose-intolerant, which could be a major worry.
The fact that lots of cheap meat (which many will buy) means lots of nasty ingredients.
The kidneys could also suffer because of the way the Ketosis-state body works with it.
The lack of fibre and calcium which, whilst can be artificially boosted, cannot be healthily reciprocated Vs a non Keto diet.
Keto Flu can last only 10 days but also 3 months, also known as the change over period. Many people don't want that. 10 days was more than enough for my partner.
My wife came off this diet after 10 days of sheer hell and has switched to a low calorie, moderate carb, moderate protein and low fat diet with smaller portions instead.
Within 2 days the light-headedness has gone and she is enjoying food again.
Bottom line is this. In the 2020 'best world 35 diets' as chosen by a panel of international related experts, the Med Diet came top for the 4th year running.
Keto 34th!!! It faired well for weight loss but very poorly for safety and other aspects. Oh and it was 34th last year too. Only the Dukan faired worse both years.
That's pretty tough to argue with but if those on Keto feel great then fine. But beware the long term risks.
Grindle said:
Well having read a massive stack of data and expert opinions on both sides of the low carb debate, since i first asked the question on another now closed thread, it seems that Keto can be good for weight loss and, also, for endurance sport, since we can't store that much glucose but we have a lot of fat we can draw on for a long period.
The downsides highlighted by many doctors and dieticians/nutritionists include a limited food range difficult to keep to sufficiently over time to stay IN Ketosis.
The high risk of dangerous cholesterol levels if done for more than say 6 months.
The risk of becoming Glucose-intolerant, which could be a major worry.
The fact that lots of cheap meat (which many will buy) means lots of nasty ingredients.
The kidneys could also suffer because of the way the Ketosis-state body works with it.
The lack of fibre and calcium which, whilst can be artificially boosted, cannot be healthily reciprocated Vs a non Keto diet.
Keto Flu can last only 10 days but also 3 months, also known as the change over period. Many people don't want that. 10 days was more than enough for my partner.
My wife came off this diet after 10 days of sheer hell and has switched to a low calorie, moderate carb, moderate protein and low fat diet with smaller portions instead.
Within 2 days the light-headedness has gone and she is enjoying food again.
Bottom line is this. In the 2020 'best world 35 diets' as chosen by a panel of international related experts, the Med Diet came top for the 4th year running.
Keto 34th!!! It faired well for weight loss but very poorly for safety and other aspects. Oh and it was 34th last year too. Only the Dukan faired worse both years.
That's pretty tough to argue with but if those on Keto feel great then fine. But beware the long term risks.
Love it. Knowing nothing to expert having not done it, not knowing anyone who even made it through the transition period but has read a few articles on the Web. The downsides highlighted by many doctors and dieticians/nutritionists include a limited food range difficult to keep to sufficiently over time to stay IN Ketosis.
The high risk of dangerous cholesterol levels if done for more than say 6 months.
The risk of becoming Glucose-intolerant, which could be a major worry.
The fact that lots of cheap meat (which many will buy) means lots of nasty ingredients.
The kidneys could also suffer because of the way the Ketosis-state body works with it.
The lack of fibre and calcium which, whilst can be artificially boosted, cannot be healthily reciprocated Vs a non Keto diet.
Keto Flu can last only 10 days but also 3 months, also known as the change over period. Many people don't want that. 10 days was more than enough for my partner.
My wife came off this diet after 10 days of sheer hell and has switched to a low calorie, moderate carb, moderate protein and low fat diet with smaller portions instead.
Within 2 days the light-headedness has gone and she is enjoying food again.
Bottom line is this. In the 2020 'best world 35 diets' as chosen by a panel of international related experts, the Med Diet came top for the 4th year running.
Keto 34th!!! It faired well for weight loss but very poorly for safety and other aspects. Oh and it was 34th last year too. Only the Dukan faired worse both years.
That's pretty tough to argue with but if those on Keto feel great then fine. But beware the long term risks.
I have been on a steep learning curve about Keto this week and have read an enormous amount from a variety of sources, experts and angles.
Even political angles! Claims are made that anti-Keto is all about the Vegan push and that Keto is all about saving the ailing meat industry. (Witness the meat counters closing at supermarkets all over the UK).
This is a complex subject, which, having also spoken to several people now who create the diet for serious cyclists and other sports people (i am almost 58 but still go sub 90 minutes half marathons), can be summarised as follows.
Imagine a car with 2 engines, one runs on diesel and the other petrol. It's usually on the petrol mode but you want to get rid of the diesel. So you switch the car to burn the diesel instead.
Most people who want to lose weight and have had no luck need to simply shift the fat which makes them heavy and big. It makes perfect sense for them to convert their body to burn fat when they are alseep, shopping, on the bicycle or down the gym. They are burning for their everyday fuel the very thing they are desperate to lose. Fat.
An extra bonus is that if you are on a normal diet you will need to refuel during tough or long exercise as we cannot store masses of energy, whereas the 23 stone guy will have endless fat to burn, as long as he keeps his body in a state of Ketosis, itself a challenging task for people used to getting sugar from the most unexpected sources.
If i was overweight i would certainly do it but only to achieve my weight goal then i would revert to a diet of small but regular meals, loads of water, low fat and low calorie food but rich in vitamins, fibre and protein.
Reason being that long-term the negatives and potential big problems down the line of Keto would tip the scales so to speak, to a Med diet. Or something similar.
Even political angles! Claims are made that anti-Keto is all about the Vegan push and that Keto is all about saving the ailing meat industry. (Witness the meat counters closing at supermarkets all over the UK).
This is a complex subject, which, having also spoken to several people now who create the diet for serious cyclists and other sports people (i am almost 58 but still go sub 90 minutes half marathons), can be summarised as follows.
Imagine a car with 2 engines, one runs on diesel and the other petrol. It's usually on the petrol mode but you want to get rid of the diesel. So you switch the car to burn the diesel instead.
Most people who want to lose weight and have had no luck need to simply shift the fat which makes them heavy and big. It makes perfect sense for them to convert their body to burn fat when they are alseep, shopping, on the bicycle or down the gym. They are burning for their everyday fuel the very thing they are desperate to lose. Fat.
An extra bonus is that if you are on a normal diet you will need to refuel during tough or long exercise as we cannot store masses of energy, whereas the 23 stone guy will have endless fat to burn, as long as he keeps his body in a state of Ketosis, itself a challenging task for people used to getting sugar from the most unexpected sources.
If i was overweight i would certainly do it but only to achieve my weight goal then i would revert to a diet of small but regular meals, loads of water, low fat and low calorie food but rich in vitamins, fibre and protein.
Reason being that long-term the negatives and potential big problems down the line of Keto would tip the scales so to speak, to a Med diet. Or something similar.
Edited by Grindle on Thursday 16th January 07:00
Jim on the hill said:
Grindle said:
Well having read a massive stack of data and expert opinions on both sides of the low carb debate, since i first asked the question on another now closed thread, it seems that Keto can be good for weight loss and, also, for endurance sport, since we can't store that much glucose but we have a lot of fat we can draw on for a long period.
The downsides highlighted by many doctors and dieticians/nutritionists include a limited food range difficult to keep to sufficiently over time to stay IN Ketosis.
The high risk of dangerous cholesterol levels if done for more than say 6 months.
The risk of becoming Glucose-intolerant, which could be a major worry.
The fact that lots of cheap meat (which many will buy) means lots of nasty ingredients.
The kidneys could also suffer because of the way the Ketosis-state body works with it.
The lack of fibre and calcium which, whilst can be artificially boosted, cannot be healthily reciprocated Vs a non Keto diet.
Keto Flu can last only 10 days but also 3 months, also known as the change over period. Many people don't want that. 10 days was more than enough for my partner.
My wife came off this diet after 10 days of sheer hell and has switched to a low calorie, moderate carb, moderate protein and low fat diet with smaller portions instead.
Within 2 days the light-headedness has gone and she is enjoying food again.
Bottom line is this. In the 2020 'best world 35 diets' as chosen by a panel of international related experts, the Med Diet came top for the 4th year running.
Keto 34th!!! It faired well for weight loss but very poorly for safety and other aspects. Oh and it was 34th last year too. Only the Dukan faired worse both years.
That's pretty tough to argue with but if those on Keto feel great then fine. But beware the long term risks.
Love it. Knowing nothing to expert having not done it, not knowing anyone who even made it through the transition period but has read a few articles on the Web. The downsides highlighted by many doctors and dieticians/nutritionists include a limited food range difficult to keep to sufficiently over time to stay IN Ketosis.
The high risk of dangerous cholesterol levels if done for more than say 6 months.
The risk of becoming Glucose-intolerant, which could be a major worry.
The fact that lots of cheap meat (which many will buy) means lots of nasty ingredients.
The kidneys could also suffer because of the way the Ketosis-state body works with it.
The lack of fibre and calcium which, whilst can be artificially boosted, cannot be healthily reciprocated Vs a non Keto diet.
Keto Flu can last only 10 days but also 3 months, also known as the change over period. Many people don't want that. 10 days was more than enough for my partner.
My wife came off this diet after 10 days of sheer hell and has switched to a low calorie, moderate carb, moderate protein and low fat diet with smaller portions instead.
Within 2 days the light-headedness has gone and she is enjoying food again.
Bottom line is this. In the 2020 'best world 35 diets' as chosen by a panel of international related experts, the Med Diet came top for the 4th year running.
Keto 34th!!! It faired well for weight loss but very poorly for safety and other aspects. Oh and it was 34th last year too. Only the Dukan faired worse both years.
That's pretty tough to argue with but if those on Keto feel great then fine. But beware the long term risks.
The people who ranked it 34th out of 35, for 2 years running (!), do this as their living, i have '''merely''' read probably 30 articles written by experts and yesterday spoke to several highly respected nutritionists.
But those people who ranked the diets ARE international experts, they DO know more than you do and have ranked all the diets through fact and experience.
I'm surprised you are that stupid that you would actually write that. RE-READ what i said.
The Med diet and several others are not only far safer for our bodies but are more sustainable and realistic for the average person and come with far fewer downsides.
But carry on thinking you know better than the experts who did the research and ranked the diets by all means. It just means you are the guy who thinks Charlton are the best team in the UK whilst the experts say they are 34th.
Edited by Grindle on Thursday 16th January 06:56
Would you say those experts have had a great success in their advice to the population on diet related matters over the last 30 years ? Look round the high street for a clue.
I off an alternate expert opinion
http://www.xperthealth.org.uk/Portals/0/Low%20Carb...
That said I would agree Keto may be ideal to get the pounds off , then revert to a Med type diet, it just seems for many people , me included those addictive carbs cravings take over and over time back to square one.
I off an alternate expert opinion
http://www.xperthealth.org.uk/Portals/0/Low%20Carb...
That said I would agree Keto may be ideal to get the pounds off , then revert to a Med type diet, it just seems for many people , me included those addictive carbs cravings take over and over time back to square one.
Grindle said:
Jim on the hill said:
Grindle said:
Well having read a massive stack of data and expert opinions on both sides of the low carb debate, since i first asked the question on another now closed thread, it seems that Keto can be good for weight loss and, also, for endurance sport, since we can't store that much glucose but we have a lot of fat we can draw on for a long period.
The downsides highlighted by many doctors and dieticians/nutritionists include a limited food range difficult to keep to sufficiently over time to stay IN Ketosis.
The high risk of dangerous cholesterol levels if done for more than say 6 months.
The risk of becoming Glucose-intolerant, which could be a major worry.
The fact that lots of cheap meat (which many will buy) means lots of nasty ingredients.
The kidneys could also suffer because of the way the Ketosis-state body works with it.
The lack of fibre and calcium which, whilst can be artificially boosted, cannot be healthily reciprocated Vs a non Keto diet.
Keto Flu can last only 10 days but also 3 months, also known as the change over period. Many people don't want that. 10 days was more than enough for my partner.
My wife came off this diet after 10 days of sheer hell and has switched to a low calorie, moderate carb, moderate protein and low fat diet with smaller portions instead.
Within 2 days the light-headedness has gone and she is enjoying food again.
Bottom line is this. In the 2020 'best world 35 diets' as chosen by a panel of international related experts, the Med Diet came top for the 4th year running.
Keto 34th!!! It faired well for weight loss but very poorly for safety and other aspects. Oh and it was 34th last year too. Only the Dukan faired worse both years.
That's pretty tough to argue with but if those on Keto feel great then fine. But beware the long term risks.
Love it. Knowing nothing to expert having not done it, not knowing anyone who even made it through the transition period but has read a few articles on the Web. The downsides highlighted by many doctors and dieticians/nutritionists include a limited food range difficult to keep to sufficiently over time to stay IN Ketosis.
The high risk of dangerous cholesterol levels if done for more than say 6 months.
The risk of becoming Glucose-intolerant, which could be a major worry.
The fact that lots of cheap meat (which many will buy) means lots of nasty ingredients.
The kidneys could also suffer because of the way the Ketosis-state body works with it.
The lack of fibre and calcium which, whilst can be artificially boosted, cannot be healthily reciprocated Vs a non Keto diet.
Keto Flu can last only 10 days but also 3 months, also known as the change over period. Many people don't want that. 10 days was more than enough for my partner.
My wife came off this diet after 10 days of sheer hell and has switched to a low calorie, moderate carb, moderate protein and low fat diet with smaller portions instead.
Within 2 days the light-headedness has gone and she is enjoying food again.
Bottom line is this. In the 2020 'best world 35 diets' as chosen by a panel of international related experts, the Med Diet came top for the 4th year running.
Keto 34th!!! It faired well for weight loss but very poorly for safety and other aspects. Oh and it was 34th last year too. Only the Dukan faired worse both years.
That's pretty tough to argue with but if those on Keto feel great then fine. But beware the long term risks.
The people who ranked it 34th out of 35, for 2 years running (!), do this as their living, i have '''merely''' read probably 30 articles written by experts and yesterday spoke to several highly respected nutritionists.
But those people who ranked the diets ARE international experts, they DO know more than you do and have ranked all the diets through fact and experience.
I'm surprised you are that stupid that you would actually write that. RE-READ what i said.
The Med diet and several others are not only far safer for our bodies but are more sustainable and realistic for the average person and come with far fewer downsides.
But carry on thinking you know better than the experts who did the research and ranked the diets by all means. It just means you are the guy who thinks Charlton are the best team in the UK whilst the experts say they are 34th.
Edited by Grindle on Thursday 16th January 06:56
Most people here know what it's about and any associated risks, most of which you have said have never been proven but I can't be bothered to comment on each rediculous thing.
If you and your wife don't have the willpower I'm sure there are lots of other threads for you to talk about Celery and being hungry.
Sorry but I couldn't resist
"i would revert to a diet of small but regular meals (keto) , loads of water (again keto) , low fat and low calorie food but rich in vitamins (keto) , fibre (keto) and protein (keto) ."
Funny you didn't mention carbs, even you don't list them in your ideal diet. So weird.
Edited by Jim on the hill on Thursday 16th January 07:46
Is the point not the difference between a diet and a full time lifestyle choice. For a diet for many the risk of being a fat git and needing to get the weight off benefits outweigh the possible risks.
This isn’t a forever thing. Going very low carb and very low sugar could be a long term thing and I genuinely don’t see the risk with that.
Full on hard core total Keto forever the majority of folk will not do - will they ????
This isn’t a forever thing. Going very low carb and very low sugar could be a long term thing and I genuinely don’t see the risk with that.
Full on hard core total Keto forever the majority of folk will not do - will they ????
David A said:
Is the point not the difference between a diet and a full time lifestyle choice. For a diet for many the risk of being a fat git and needing to get the weight off benefits outweigh the possible risks.
This isn’t a forever thing. Going very low carb and very low sugar could be a long term thing and I genuinely don’t see the risk with that.
Full on hard core total Keto forever the majority of folk will not do - will they ????
"Very low carb and very low sugar" is keto. What do you think "hard core total Keto" is?This isn’t a forever thing. Going very low carb and very low sugar could be a long term thing and I genuinely don’t see the risk with that.
Full on hard core total Keto forever the majority of folk will not do - will they ????
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