Discussion
mcelliott said:
Thankyou4calling said:
No amount of training, steroids, diet etc is going to make you look like a decent bodybuilder
Absolute rubbish.the percentile of genetic physiques that could attain a decent IFBB placing is very small, the percentage is tiny for an olympia stage.
there are loads of 'good' physiques out there, there's 2 or 3 'good' physiques in every gym but I can assure you that if you ever saw a world class physique alongside those 'good' physiques you'd understand the differences of genetics.
even ex olympia guys in their 50's without juice can make the instagram heroes look quite unbalanced tbh. (if they've kept training hard that is)
though saying that, I used to train alongside Jonny Fuller (ex olympia) and always wondered how on earth he got placing for olympia, awful genetics in my opinion, so there are the exceptions.
Hilts said:
vonuber said:
People who say they are safe for the average person to inject willy nilly are talking out of their arse.
So what's going to happen to the average person injecting steroids if it's not safe?
BRR said:
This is what I tell them, if you can't make serious gains from 17-25 without using steroids you're doing something wrong, then if they do want to start later on they will have a great base to work from
If only I could chat with myself at that age and get a modern training plan (for rugby mainly) done....I did manage to go from c70KG at 17 to c 95-100kg by 28 (ish). I went to around 105/110kg, but that was all lard addition, in fact I'd guess my muscle mass was higher at 95kg than at 105kg.I think a lot of my joints weren't built for it though, so had quite a few knee and ankle injuries playing.
I keep trying to start lifting again, but things keep breaking......I hate being old(ish)...
Halb said:
What made me ask was, without the full legality of a trade name and regulations to back it up, how can you be sure the stuff is safe to take?
Frstly there are accepted and trusted trade names. Steroids have been around for a very long time and are a seriously competitive business involving £millions. You sell crap, no one buys your product. Secondly only a complete donkey would purchase steroids from someone other than a completely trusted source.popeyewhite said:
You'd be better off with Igf for tendon repair. Friend of mine still had to do 3 courses though before his supraspinatus was good.
I know but I don't like needles 
And for mine you have to inject near the tendon I believe? In which case I've no idea where the thing is on the bicep!
smiffy180 said:
I know but I don't like needles
You generally use a short needle for pinning Igf.smiffy180 said:
And for mine you have to inject near the tendon I believe? In which case I've no idea where the thing is on the bicep!
Well, you can inject anywhere in the body, usually it's injected into a pinched roll of stomach fat. You can of course inject nearer the site if you're really serious - should be easy enough to find! There's really nothing else that speeds up the healing process. Deca will work with the odd strain and tear where inflammation is involved, but not with something as serious as your tendon.How's your recovery going?
Genetics can have a hand in how you respond. The same amount to person A can make dramatic gains compared to person B, all things being equal. In short, you never really know.
I've heard it loads of times where people think some big guy would be huge if he trained, it's just not the case, some IFBB pros have been 9st at 21yo (Porter Cottrell)
I've heard it loads of times where people think some big guy would be huge if he trained, it's just not the case, some IFBB pros have been 9st at 21yo (Porter Cottrell)
Edited by jimPH on Tuesday 26th September 07:05
popeyewhite said:
smiffy180 said:
Using them to help speed up healing process of tendon reattachment surgery.
You'd be better off with Igf for tendon repair. Friend of mine still had to do 3 courses though before his supraspinatus was good.Im 7 months post and the shoulder is no better, with a recent MRI showing nothing wrong (ie nothing coming undone so no idea why its frozen) and its starting to f
k me off as it was meant to be fixed nowlemmingjames said:
IM guessing this isnt an over the counter product? Which would be best for post tendon reattachment surgery, IGF or SARMS (can SARMS be taken orally or is it injection only)?
Im 7 months post and the shoulder is no better, with a recent MRI showing nothing wrong (ie nothing coming undone so no idea why its frozen) and its starting to fk me off as it was meant to be fixed now
BPC157 and TB500 may be worth a try, both injections using an insulin needleIm 7 months post and the shoulder is no better, with a recent MRI showing nothing wrong (ie nothing coming undone so no idea why its frozen) and its starting to f
k me off as it was meant to be fixed nowPvapour said:
though the risk of increasing any underlying conditions exists with all steroids, the injecting format is generally considered to be a safer form of administering, tablets do more damage as they pass through more delicate areas at a higher toxicity, apparently.
When I said that no amount of training will make you look like a bodybuilder unless you have the genetics perhaps I should clarify what I mean by a bodybuilder.I'm not talking about the guys who walk around in a muscle vest that everyone says are massive (when they aren't) I'm not talking about the guy the daily mail call a bodybuilder when really he is just a nutter who has battered his missus and pumps a few weights.
I'm referring to people who place in bodybuilding shows. people who live, eat, sleep and breath the sport/activity. People who can stand in a lineup and be judged for their physique.
Jonah Lomu (sadly departed) was one of the greatest Rugby players of all time. People would marvel at his size and physique. When he finished Rugby he actually trained as a bodybuilder and entered shows. I'm afraid to say that to me, he didn't look good. perhaps to others he did, google it and judge. There is an absolute chasm between looking good walking around or even in a gym and being what i call a bodybuilder.
That's an example of what i mean by genetics and please know I'm talking about PROPER bodybuilders. Most people have never met one because they are rare. As said, every gym has a few decent physiques but if most people saw an IFBB pro such as Big Ramy, Flex Lewis, Phil Heath etc (which is my definition of a bodybuilder they would do some serious re calibration.
Most peoples idea of a bodybuilder would belong in the dreamboys stage show.
Edited by Thankyou4calling on Tuesday 26th September 10:07
Edited by Thankyou4calling on Tuesday 26th September 10:23
Thankyou4calling said:
When I said that no amount of training will make you look like a bodybuilder unless you have the genetics perhaps I should clarify what I mean by a bodybuilder.
I'm not talking about the guys who walk around in a muscle vest that everyone says are massive (when they aren't) I'm not talking about the guy the daily mail call a bodybuilder when really he is just a nutter who has battered his missus and pumps a few weights.
I'm referring to people who place in bodybuilding shows. people who live, eat, sleep and breath the sport/activity. People who can stand in a lineup and be judged for their physique.
Jonah Lomu (sadly departed) was one of the greatest Rugby players of all time. People would marvel at his size and physique. When he finished Rugby he actually trained as a bodybuilder and entered shows. I'm afraid to say that to me, he didn't look good. perhaps to others he did, google it and judge. There is an absolute chasm between looking good walking around or even in a gym and being what i call a bodybuilder.
That's an example of what i mean by genetics and please know I'm talking about PROPER bodybuilders. Most people have never met one because they are rare. As said, every gym has a few decent physiques but if most people saw an IFBB pro such as Big Ramy, Flex Lewis, Phil Heath etc (which is my definition of a bodybuilder they would do some serious re calibration.
Most peoples idea of a bodybuilder would belong in the dreamboys stage show.
I Get your point but that's like saying only Messi, Ronaldo etc are footballers, you've picked an elite few and said that they're bodybuilders and i'm not sure what it is you're suggesting the rest are.I'm not talking about the guys who walk around in a muscle vest that everyone says are massive (when they aren't) I'm not talking about the guy the daily mail call a bodybuilder when really he is just a nutter who has battered his missus and pumps a few weights.
I'm referring to people who place in bodybuilding shows. people who live, eat, sleep and breath the sport/activity. People who can stand in a lineup and be judged for their physique.
Jonah Lomu (sadly departed) was one of the greatest Rugby players of all time. People would marvel at his size and physique. When he finished Rugby he actually trained as a bodybuilder and entered shows. I'm afraid to say that to me, he didn't look good. perhaps to others he did, google it and judge. There is an absolute chasm between looking good walking around or even in a gym and being what i call a bodybuilder.
That's an example of what i mean by genetics and please know I'm talking about PROPER bodybuilders. Most people have never met one because they are rare. As said, every gym has a few decent physiques but if most people saw an IFBB pro such as Big Ramy, Flex Lewis, Phil Heath etc (which is my definition of a bodybuilder they would do some serious re calibration.
Most peoples idea of a bodybuilder would belong in the dreamboys stage show.
Edited by Thankyou4calling on Tuesday 26th September 10:07
Edited by Thankyou4calling on Tuesday 26th September 10:23
IMO anybody that spends time focussing on building a muscular physique, especially to a point of being able to compete at whatever level is a bodybuilder, the same way somebody playing for Plymouth Argyle is a footballer
though I do agree that no amount of training, steroids, diet or whatever is enough to make somebody an elite competitor in any sport, you need all those things plus the genetics / natural talent
BRR said:
I Get your point but that's like saying only Messi, Ronaldo etc are footballers, you've picked an elite few and said that they're bodybuilders and i'm not sure what it is you're suggesting the rest are.
IMO anybody that spends time focussing on building a muscular physique, especially to a point of being able to compete at whatever level is a bodybuilder, the same way somebody playing for Plymouth Argyle is a footballer
though I do agree that no amount of training, steroids, diet or whatever is enough to make somebody an elite competitor in any sport, you need all those things plus the genetics / natural talent
Fair enough. I've named a few top guys but of course there are plenty not at this level who are still bodybuilders.IMO anybody that spends time focussing on building a muscular physique, especially to a point of being able to compete at whatever level is a bodybuilder, the same way somebody playing for Plymouth Argyle is a footballer
though I do agree that no amount of training, steroids, diet or whatever is enough to make somebody an elite competitor in any sport, you need all those things plus the genetics / natural talent
The distinction I'm trying to make is between the guy that most think is a bodybuilder and what i would call a competitive bodybuilder and there are plenty who go in shows that i wouldn't consider to be competitive.
The waters are further muddied with shows now for men in beach shorts. These guys have fantastic physiques, to most "the untrained eye" they are bodybuilders but to me they are gym guys in beach shorts. Not my definition of a bodybuilder at all.
Thankyou4calling said:
Pvapour said:
though the risk of increasing any underlying conditions exists with all steroids, the injecting format is generally considered to be a safer form of administering, tablets do more damage as they pass through more delicate areas at a higher toxicity, apparently.
When I said that no amount of training will make you look like a bodybuilder unless you have the genetics perhaps I should clarify what I mean by a bodybuilder.I'm not talking about the guys who walk around in a muscle vest that everyone says are massive (when they aren't) I'm not talking about the guy the daily mail call a bodybuilder when really he is just a nutter who has battered his missus and pumps a few weights.
I'm referring to people who place in bodybuilding shows. people who live, eat, sleep and breath the sport/activity. People who can stand in a lineup and be judged for their physique.
Jonah Lomu (sadly departed) was one of the greatest Rugby players of all time. People would marvel at his size and physique. When he finished Rugby he actually trained as a bodybuilder and entered shows. I'm afraid to say that to me, he didn't look good. perhaps to others he did, google it and judge. There is an absolute chasm between looking good walking around or even in a gym and being what i call a bodybuilder.
That's an example of what i mean by genetics and please know I'm talking about PROPER bodybuilders. Most people have never met one because they are rare. As said, every gym has a few decent physiques but if most people saw an IFBB pro such as Big Ramy, Flex Lewis, Phil Heath etc (which is my definition of a bodybuilder they would do some serious re calibration.
Most peoples idea of a bodybuilder would belong in the dreamboys stage show.
Edited by Thankyou4calling on Tuesday 26th September 10:07
Edited by Thankyou4calling on Tuesday 26th September 10:23
lemmingjames said:
IM guessing this isnt an over the counter product?
Yes and no. You can get it over the counter in your local bodybuilding gym, but it's unlikely Boots will supply it.
lemmingjames said:
Which would be best for post tendon reattachment surgery, IGF or SARMS (can SARMS be taken orally or is it injection only)?
Igf. SARMS won't make any difference and peptides may/not help but you'll need a long course (3-4 months).lemmingjames said:
Im 7 months post and the shoulder is no better, with a recent MRI showing nothing wrong (ie nothing coming undone so no idea why its frozen) and its starting to fk me off as it was meant to be fixed now
You have my sympathy. Shoulders are a nightmare.k me off as it was meant to be fixed now
popeyewhite said:
smiffy180 said:
I know but I don't like needles
You generally use a short needle for pinning Igf.smiffy180 said:
And for mine you have to inject near the tendon I believe? In which case I've no idea where the thing is on the bicep!
Well, you can inject anywhere in the body, usually it's injected into a pinched roll of stomach fat. You can of course inject nearer the site if you're really serious - should be easy enough to find! There's really nothing else that speeds up the healing process. Deca will work with the odd strain and tear where inflammation is involved, but not with something as serious as your tendon.How's your recovery going?
Is there any point in running Igf without running a proper course of anything else?
I've got MK-677 which is the growth secretive SARM, no idea how much it's helping.
Recovery is going well, it's just the mind games.
Operation was April 31st and I'm now using 25kg dumbbells for 5x10 flat press. Previously would have been around 45/50kg but I'm moving up slowly as I've nothing to follow time frame wise for recovery.
Hasn't tugged doing 90% lift on deadlifts so at Christmas I'm hoping to go that bit heavier all around and build back up for England's strongest man qualifiers in May.
Halb said:
Maybe, maybe not.
The 10,000 hour theory is interesting.
Ooooh Ericsson, interesting stuff but pretty easy to debunk as certain specific factors need to be met...not only physical but psychological. Never seen it applied to weightlifting injury rehab. Though why not? Might have made an interesting bit of research for someone!The 10,000 hour theory is interesting.
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