Steroids ?

[chris watton]

Pvapour said:

Good answer, thanks

Eaxactly that, different perspctives, i dont see the enhanced progress as more as its fake and those latter years are more important to me but also completely understand they may never come.

Do you find your outlook on this stretches to all areas of your life?

For me..

Was never attracted to women who wore make up and my wife never does.
Dont adorne my body with anything; watches, necklaces, rings, tatoos etc absolutely nothing
Pretty much dont like anything that covers or dresses things up that detracts from its original state.

hate branding / labeling things, remove branding or id on cars when possible (doesn't massively bother me but prefer cleaner image of car itself and not their advertising)

I am in the minority i know but would’nt want to be any other way, you sound like you have quite a level headed approach to it and still think of your health, good to hear. But saying you do it for you doesnt really explain your objective / goal, you say you like to see your ‘progress’, what is it you are progressing to? The biggest you can be in the best condition within your perceived safe limits on steroids?

Reading that, that describes my preferences perfectly! No jewellery, no watches, hate branded/logo'd clothes, no tattoos (I always thought I was the odd one out with my friends, as they all have them, just variations of very similar, and silly themes - way to go for individuality)!

However, I have often wondered what my progress would look like, both physically and strength-wise if I had taken steroids. But if I had, no matter how big I got, that probably still wouldn't be enough. So I just do it naturally and workout and eat as best as I can - it's still fun, if slow progress after the first couple of years..

[otolith]

This is interesting, if somewhat academic. I have been trying to gain lean mass simply to increase the amount I can eat without getting fat again, but I would be lying if I said that I hadn’t noticed the change in appearance or that I don’t find it gratifying when others notice. I can definitely see how people might get sucked into something that would increase their gains. And some people you see in gyms - well, it’s pretty much the same as any other form of body modification I suppose. If they like it, good for them.

[mcelliott]

Pvapour said:

watwenwong said:

Pvapour said:

35 yrs natural and staying that way, sad to see lime light chasers shortening their lives but it is exactly that, their lives.

Like queen said ‘one year of love is better than a lifetime alone’

I think the population of this world is ever more crazed for attention as it becomes more and more shallow through human contact being driven toward mainly digital images.

I understand the sacrifice of the guys at the top of their sport (all) as their drive to see if they’re better than anyone else in the world is incredible and probably not something they can control tbh but recreational use is just so short sighted it’s difficult not to judge.

I duno, help me understand, the users on this thread seem intelligent and coherent in what they’re doing, can you give some insight into why you do it?

I guess there are some who do it who just have a scientific curiosity of what it will do to their body, is that it? Ie not that bothered about showing off visual results / differences.

Edited by Pvapour on Sunday 29th October 06:44

It's not lime light chasing, nor is it about attention, for me at least.

I do it because I want to, I do it because I enjoy seeing what happens as I progress, I also do it because it's a way of making constant progress. To be competitive in certain fields, it's a necessity. I do it for me, to get where I want to go- I don't compare myself to others. It's the process, rather than the outcome I like best, though the outcome is the aim.

I do it in as safe a way as possible- I don't run silly cycles, I don't blast for long periods, I eat healthy and stay fit- and the years that it may take off my life, are not likely to be the ones I'd like to keep anyway- rotting away to senility in a nursing home as I eat through my kids inheritance.

I've done, and do what I do fully aware of the possible consequences. Many of which are not even a certainty, never mind a risk. There are so many infinite ways to die, that I'll take my chances. (I've almost been killed in 3 incidents over the years- none related, in any way at all, to steroids)

You see, you can look at your situation in two ways- 35 years a natural, or 35 years where you could have progressed more. Neither is correct, as it all depends on perspective. You have yours, I have mine- both of which clash.

Like Queen said 'who want's to live forever'

Good answer, thanks

Eaxactly that, different perspctives, i dont see the enhanced progress as more as its fake and those latter years are more important to me but also completely understand they may never come.

Do you find your outlook on this stretches to all areas of your life?

For me..

Was never attracted to women who wore make up and my wife never does.
Dont adorne my body with anything; watches, necklaces, rings, tatoos etc absolutely nothing
Pretty much dont like anything that covers or dresses things up that detracts from its original state.

hate branding / labeling things, remove branding or id on cars when possible (doesn't massively bother me but prefer cleaner image of car itself and not their advertising)

I am in the minority i know but would’nt want to be any other way, you sound like you have quite a level headed approach to it and still think of your health, good to hear. But saying you do it for you doesnt really explain your objective / goal, you say you like to see your ‘progress’, what is it you are progressing to? The biggest you can be in the best condition within your perceived safe limits on steroids?

Which makes me completely different to you, which I think is a wonderful thing. Life would be boring if we were all the same. The one thing that binds us together is our love of exercise, and some people have got a different way/objectives to exercise. People do it for many many different reasons, it has literally kept me sane. As for steroids, I have nothing against anyone who decides to take them, their body their choice. I'm not here to judge.

[watwenwong]

Pvapour said:

Good answer, thanks

Eaxactly that, different perspctives, i dont see the enhanced progress as more as its fake and those latter years are more important to me but also completely understand they may never come.

Do you find your outlook on this stretches to all areas of your life?

For me..

Was never attracted to women who wore make up and my wife never does.
Dont adorne my body with anything; watches, necklaces, rings, tatoos etc absolutely nothing
Pretty much dont like anything that covers or dresses things up that detracts from its original state.

hate branding / labeling things, remove branding or id on cars when possible (doesn't massively bother me but prefer cleaner image of car itself and not their advertising)

I am in the minority i know but would’nt want to be any other way, you sound like you have quite a level headed approach to it and still think of your health, good to hear. But saying you do it for you doesnt really explain your objective / goal, you say you like to see your ‘progress’, what is it you are progressing to? The biggest you can be in the best condition within your perceived safe limits on steroids?

I don't want to die young, I'm not reckless in that regard. I'm also not one for material things- brands, expensive belongings, excess- these things hold no interest for me, and often bore me when people bring them up. I live a relatively simple life, I don't spend a lot of money on myself, as I save it for family things. I generally buy things when I need to, and will do without unless it's a necessity. I have money to spend, but trinkets and nice clothes aren't my thing. I do get some attention, as I'm a bigger guy, and I'll not lie and say I don't appreciate it- bit it's never been the aim or intention, more just a by-product.

I've perhaps not explained my goal because there isn't a solid one- I love the process- I will likely compete again, though in bodybuilding or the strength related arena I don't know. Or, I may never compete again, and just enjoy the journey.

My reasons for training aren't unique- I do it be cause I love it, and it's the love of it that makes me keep pushing forward. It also keeps me sane, and is like meditation/a break for me. Just me, pushing what I can do.

This may, or may not adequately explain. I'm never going to push the envelope drug wise, because it's not what I want. But a little can go a long way- that's a thing many who take just don't understand. I'm here for the long term, as I've no doubt I'll be training for a very long time to come.

[RJB_666]

popeyewhite said:

knk said:

Just to try to heal a chronic injury for me.

May be better going straight to HGH/LGF if it's tendon repair you're after. AFAIK ostarine's HGH release isn't much and the research only shows ostarine's ability to halt muscle wasting (and there's a bit of muscle growth) with ill, older patients.

I know an experienced bodybuilder in his mid 40's that injured his rotator cuff last year. Had a scan that showed the damage and had recomended surgery. He took a course of a peptide called TB500. Apparently the same surgeon looked at a scan after in disbelief. Might be worth a look?

[Pvapour]

watwenwong said:

Pvapour said:

Good answer, thanks

Eaxactly that, different perspctives, i dont see the enhanced progress as more as its fake and those latter years are more important to me but also completely understand they may never come.

Do you find your outlook on this stretches to all areas of your life?

For me..

Was never attracted to women who wore make up and my wife never does.
Dont adorne my body with anything; watches, necklaces, rings, tatoos etc absolutely nothing
Pretty much dont like anything that covers or dresses things up that detracts from its original state.

hate branding / labeling things, remove branding or id on cars when possible (doesn't massively bother me but prefer cleaner image of car itself and not their advertising)

I am in the minority i know but would’nt want to be any other way, you sound like you have quite a level headed approach to it and still think of your health, good to hear. But saying you do it for you doesnt really explain your objective / goal, you say you like to see your ‘progress’, what is it you are progressing to? The biggest you can be in the best condition within your perceived safe limits on steroids?

I don't want to die young, I'm not reckless in that regard. I'm also not one for material things- brands, expensive belongings, excess- these things hold no interest for me, and often bore me when people bring them up. I live a relatively simple life, I don't spend a lot of money on myself, as I save it for family things. I generally buy things when I need to, and will do without unless it's a necessity. I have money to spend, but trinkets and nice clothes aren't my thing. I do get some attention, as I'm a bigger guy, and I'll not lie and say I don't appreciate it- bit it's never been the aim or intention, more just a by-product.

I've perhaps not explained my goal because there isn't a solid one- I love the process- I will likely compete again, though in bodybuilding or the strength related arena I don't know. Or, I may never compete again, and just enjoy the journey.

My reasons for training aren't unique- I do it be cause I love it, and it's the love of it that makes me keep pushing forward. It also keeps me sane, and is like meditation/a break for me. Just me, pushing what I can do.

This may, or may not adequately explain. I'm never going to push the envelope drug wise, because it's not what I want. But a little can go a long way- that's a thing many who take just don't understand. I'm here for the long term, as I've no doubt I'll be training for a very long time to come.

i think it does explain tbh, not that different from me really, you're just willing to take more of a calculated risk on the health side, I'd say your goal is just to enjoy the journey which i respect, the daily hit of adrenalin maybe? does it for me

if you're enjoying your journey through life this way then all the power to you, not many find that, i see many who pretend they are and many who are open about the fact they don't, way too many £ chasers for the sake of bragging rights, the ones who don't have the dosh seem to turn to selfie chasing.

its interesting what you say about a fairly simple life as I'm the same, I do wander if years of the daily adrenalin hit in the gym leave us 'less wanting' as we get this drip feed as and when we want it? I removed other gym goers from my life about 5 years ago by creating my own pro gym that i train in alone, sometimes with my wife (where we met 30 years ago) but mainly on my own.

I only mention this because (like yourself) my training has always been for me, its never been important how others saw me, even when i was praised i would disagree, it was nice of them to say but 'm not a fan of the word nice i digress... training on my own has increased my intensity and high funnily enough and really suits me, very strange when i have to train in a public gym now (holidays etc) as you become very aware of how different you are, my wife and I find others body language very interesting especially from race to race.

anyways, thanks for the insight, stay healthy

[lemmingjames]

RJB_666 said:

I know an experienced bodybuilder in his mid 40's that injured his rotator cuff last year. Had a scan that showed the damage and had recomended surgery. He took a course of a peptide called TB500. Apparently the same surgeon looked at a scan after in disbelief. Might be worth a look?

Had a google of that, it appears that very little human study has occured but its used in race horse.

[popeyewhite]

Pvapour said:

.. sad to see lime light chasers shortening their lives but it is exactly that, their lives. Like queen said ‘one year of love is better than a lifetime alone’

watwenwong said:

I do it in as safe a way as possible- I don't run silly cycles, I don't blast for long periods, I eat healthy and stay fit- and the years that it may take off my life, are not likely to be the ones I'd like to keep anyway- rotting away to senility in a nursing home as I eat through my kids inheritance.
Like Queen said 'who want's to live forever'

The gold standard clinical test, the random controlled trial, or for that matter ANY kind of longitudinal trial has never been run as research into AAS. There are very obvious reasons for this. At the moment, there are NO research papers in existence that show a normal healthy male that takes a sensible, regulated amount of AASs will cause themselves any physical damage. Even the recent taken link between T and prostate problems in men with existing high prostate counts has been debunked, although a connection, if any, is not known. Psychological damage is harder to quantify, as psychometric tests are subjective and a clinical diagnosis (ie psychosis due to steroid abuse) only examines the present subject state (ie the subject may well have been psychotic before taking the AASs).

Personally I'm more than happy that people are wary of steroids - even if the majority of old wives tales surrounding them are just that - because as I've trained through my life in many different gyms I've also encountered a fair share of lifters who in my opinion either have fragile egos, or a personality that is already wayyyy to aggressive, or the brains of a gnat. For people like that there is the very real possibility of either mental issues or steroid abuse - either which may completely derail/shorten their lives. Steroids, even peptides, need to be treated with EVERY caution and complete respect.

[otolith]

In a few years, this might all seem a bit old fashioned...

https://www.fastcompany.com/40477808/genetic-modif...

[Halb]

I think mucking about with genes is hurtling towards us. Especially the super rich chasing the immortal button.

Pvapour said:

I only mention this because (like yourself) my training has always been for me, its never been important how others saw me, even when i was praised i would disagree, it was nice of them to say but 'm not a fan of the word nice i digress... training on my own has increased my intensity and high funnily enough and really suits me, very strange when i have to train in a public gym now (holidays etc) as you become very aware of how different you are, my wife and I find others body language very interesting especially from race to race.

Can you elucidate, PP?

[SpunkyGlory]

Pvapour said:

35 yrs natural and staying that way, sad to see lime light chasers shortening their lives but it is exactly that, their lives.

Genuine question - are there studies that show a correlation between steroid use and length of life?

[chris watton]

Actually, as the T-levels of Western males continues on its downward spiral, perhaps some kind of steroid is the answer!

[Halb]

chris watton said:

Actually, as the T-levels of Western males continues on its downward spiral, perhaps some kind of steroid is the answer!

Or a change in diet and environment.

[Pvapour]

Halb said:

I think mucking about with genes is hurtling towards us. Especially the super rich chasing the immortal button.

Pvapour said:

I only mention this because (like yourself) my training has always been for me, its never been important how others saw me, even when i was praised i would disagree, it was nice of them to say but 'm not a fan of the word nice i digress... training on my own has increased my intensity and high funnily enough and really suits me, very strange when i have to train in a public gym now (holidays etc) as you become very aware of how different you are, my wife and I find others body language very interesting especially from race to race.

Can you elucidate, PP?

can you

[ORD]

Halb said:

Or a change in diet and environment.

Not much chance of avoiding the relevant pollutants, unfortunately.

All anecdotal of course, but I'm pretty damn sure that the typical 25 year old man these days is carrying a lot less muscle than even 10 years ago. Back when I left university, men with noddles arms were noteworthy. Now it's utterly normal.

[Halb]

Pvapour said:

Halb said:

I think mucking about with genes is hurtling towards us. Especially the super rich chasing the immortal button.

Pvapour said:

I only mention this because (like yourself) my training has always been for me, its never been important how others saw me, even when i was praised i would disagree, it was nice of them to say but 'm not a fan of the word nice i digress... training on my own has increased my intensity and high funnily enough and really suits me, very strange when i have to train in a public gym now (holidays etc) as you become very aware of how different you are, my wife and I find others body language very interesting especially from race to race.

Can you elucidate, PP?

can you

ORD said:

Not much chance of avoiding the relevant pollutants, unfortunately.

All anecdotal of course, but I'm pretty damn sure that the typical 25 year old man these days is carrying a lot less muscle than even 10 years ago. Back when I left university, men with noddles arms were noteworthy. Now it's utterly normal.

Environment is tricky, but one can do one's best without being a swampy.

[popeyewhite]

SpunkyGlory said:

Pvapour said:

35 yrs natural and staying that way, sad to see lime light chasers shortening their lives but it is exactly that, their lives.

Genuine question - are there studies that show a correlation between steroid use and length of life?

Do you mind if I butt in?
The answer (and Ive tried to explain why) you're looking for is 'no'.

[chris watton]

ORD said:

Not much chance of avoiding the relevant pollutants, unfortunately.

All anecdotal of course, but I'm pretty damn sure that the typical 25 year old man these days is carrying a lot less muscle than even 10 years ago. Back when I left university, men with noddles arms were noteworthy. Now it's utterly normal.

It is n quite well known and studied that Western male T-levels (as well as sperm count) have been declining significantly over the last few decades.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/18/modern-li...

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/1206...

There are quite a few 'femen' around...

[mcelliott]

popeyewhite said:

SpunkyGlory said:

Pvapour said:

35 yrs natural and staying that way, sad to see lime light chasers shortening their lives but it is exactly that, their lives.

Genuine question - are there studies that show a correlation between steroid use and length of life?

Do you mind if I butt in?
The answer (and Ive tried to explain why) you're looking for is 'no'.

But what about all dem bodybuilders dropping dead bro

[ORD]

chris watton said:

It is n quite well known and studied that Western male T-levels (as well as sperm count) have been declining significantly over the last few decades.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/18/modern-li...

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/1206...

There are quite a few 'femen' around...

The second study is bad science, unfortunately, at least as reported. The authors suggest that low T levels in some of the subjects may have been caused by depression and/or obesity. But isn't it just as likely that the low T levels caused or contributed to those conditions? Causation probably runs in both directions.

I would be fairly relaxed at T supplements if I found out my levels had dropped off badly.