Discussion
theguvernor15 said:
I work with a lad who is pretty into his training.
Not bodybuilding but he was on 'the gear', clean eating etc.
He was in half decent shape, abs, triangular shape top half, tiny waist etc.
He said he's taken both oral/injected steroids & has said the former are horrible.
He also said they're very expensive (few hundred a month) & very addictive, he said addictive mentally, in the fact that he liked what he saw, not that his body craved them.
He also said that as well as his balls shrivelling up, he did get the 'roid rage'.
He lost almost 2 1/2 stone once he came off them & reckons his 1 rep max bench dropped by 20-30KG although he thinks thats partly placebo.
The reason he stopped taking them?
He got really ill with a liver/kidney infection & the Dr in very few words told him he would probably kill himself if he carried on.
Orals can be nasty, particularly if you run them too long- TBH sounds like he jumped in without the knowledge he needed, and the fact he was spending a few hundred a month means he was a)being ripped off or b)running fairly substantial doses. (unless he was taking growth too)Not bodybuilding but he was on 'the gear', clean eating etc.
He was in half decent shape, abs, triangular shape top half, tiny waist etc.
He said he's taken both oral/injected steroids & has said the former are horrible.
He also said they're very expensive (few hundred a month) & very addictive, he said addictive mentally, in the fact that he liked what he saw, not that his body craved them.
He also said that as well as his balls shrivelling up, he did get the 'roid rage'.
He lost almost 2 1/2 stone once he came off them & reckons his 1 rep max bench dropped by 20-30KG although he thinks thats partly placebo.
The reason he stopped taking them?
He got really ill with a liver/kidney infection & the Dr in very few words told him he would probably kill himself if he carried on.
For example- I can run a 10 week blast for £100 (currently what I'm doing), and then cruise the next 10 weeks for £22- that equates to £30.50/ month. If you up the dose, and add in orals, the price goes up. But most people take far more than they need, without learning what works for them first.
supercommuter said:
His jaw line has also gone a bit square....so you can kind of tell
Surely change in jaw shape is down to training hard, getting plenty of rest and eating your greens? How else would some rugby players have such a change in facial shape when they are tested so regularly?BarryGibb said:
Surely change in jaw shape is down to training hard, getting plenty of rest and eating your greens? How else would some rugby players have such a change in facial shape when they are tested so regularly?
HGH causes bone growth, not steroids. Not sure if it's tested for, likely not, but a lot of rugby players have huge hands, foreheads and jaws because of this.I expect the other jaw line squaring off in the other posters mention is due to lower body fat, rather than bone growth.
There's no need for guesswork or extrapolation from personal experience: there's plenty of science around this. Greg Nuckols (Stronger by Science) has a very intelligent piece on the likely effects of PEDs on hypertrophy.
It's fairly intuitive, though: we all remember how easy it was to put on muscle when we had very high testosterone levels! I can now (at 34) gain muscle at around the same pace I did at 20, but it takes intelligent programming and hard training. At 20, I gained significant muscle mass (several kilos per year) from whatever I did - martial arts training, ad hoc ego lifting, press ups! Everything worked and was easy. PEDs give you in a similar hormonal profile, so it's unsurprising that they make it much easier to gain muscle (especially once you've already put on quite a lot and so are limited by your natural hormone balance).
It's fairly intuitive, though: we all remember how easy it was to put on muscle when we had very high testosterone levels! I can now (at 34) gain muscle at around the same pace I did at 20, but it takes intelligent programming and hard training. At 20, I gained significant muscle mass (several kilos per year) from whatever I did - martial arts training, ad hoc ego lifting, press ups! Everything worked and was easy. PEDs give you in a similar hormonal profile, so it's unsurprising that they make it much easier to gain muscle (especially once you've already put on quite a lot and so are limited by your natural hormone balance).
The science also shows genetic differences to be modest for most people but huge for some. Most people have fairly similar abilities to put on muscle, but a small proportion are either extremely good or extremely bad at hypertrophy. If you are a genuine hard gainer (and some are - the studies include some participants that gain zero muscle mass from an intelligent programme), you probably know about it; the same goes for the genetically blessed. The rest of us cluster around the middle - roughly a normal distribution.
BarryGibb said:
Surely change in jaw shape is down to training hard, getting plenty of rest and eating your greens? How else would some rugby players have such a change in facial shape when they are tested so regularly?
One wrestler who took a lil too much HGH back in the day was Big John Studd, his eyes started to travel away from each other.I also heard of a guy whose elbows started to come out.
synthetic HGH really took off in the 80s. People reckon it was probably what Carl Lewis was on. You could just fast for 24 hours and get a 700-2,000 jump in HGH.
I wonder how much the press will use this weeks deaths of two very high profile bodybuilders to continue their attack on the sport/activity.
The Daily Mail will often run a headline of "Bodybuilder attacks girlfriend" followed by a picture of the fella in a vest, a back to front cap and arms like pipe cleaners.
Basically anyone who has a pic of them on Facebook lifting is called a bodybuilder when they commit a crime.
Both Rich and Dallas would've been on incredible amounts of gear and papers will use that as an excuse to say steroids kill. I wonder if there will be toxicology tests to determine what was in their system, might be a long list.
It annoys me.
The Daily Mail will often run a headline of "Bodybuilder attacks girlfriend" followed by a picture of the fella in a vest, a back to front cap and arms like pipe cleaners.
Basically anyone who has a pic of them on Facebook lifting is called a bodybuilder when they commit a crime.
Both Rich and Dallas would've been on incredible amounts of gear and papers will use that as an excuse to say steroids kill. I wonder if there will be toxicology tests to determine what was in their system, might be a long list.
It annoys me.
watwenwong said:
BarryGibb said:
Surely change in jaw shape is down to training hard, getting plenty of rest and eating your greens? How else would some rugby players have such a change in facial shape when they are tested so regularly?
HGH causes bone growth, not steroids. Not sure if it's tested for, likely not, but a lot of rugby players have huge hands, foreheads and jaws because of this.I expect the other jaw line squaring off in the other posters mention is due to lower body fat, rather than bone growth.
Fairly certain she was taking something, so striking the transformation, fairly certain looking back that a lot in there were, never been to a gym since with so many massive guys, the general kind of gyms (David Lloyd, Energie, Total Fitness) rarely have anyone like that, quite intimidating at first but generally very nice, but also lavishly flatulent, never encountered anywhere that constantly smelt of farts like that place
My wife said to me the other day I look different since I have been training, mainly as weight has come off but she said I looked more angular in the face, I reckon its down to all the grimacing from lifting weights, so I suppose its a side benefit.
Edited by J4CKO on Saturday 26th August 13:02
watwenwong said:
HGH causes bone growth, not steroids. Not sure if it's tested for, likely not, but a lot of rugby players have huge hands, foreheads and jaws because of this.
I expect the other jaw line squaring off in the other posters mention is due to lower body fat, rather than bone growth.
I expect the other jaw line squaring off in the other posters mention is due to lower body fat, rather than bone growth.
I had a few friends who turned into Neanderthal man when they made it to pro level.
Wobbegong said:
helix402 said:
Look, they work really well:
Some negative side effects are possible.
Pretty sure I remember him using synthol as well? Some negative side effects are possible.
Sad to hear he has died, but not surprised
Edited by chris watton on Saturday 26th August 21:51
Wobbegong said:
helix402 said:
Look, they work really well:
Some negative side effects are possible.
Pretty sure I remember him using synthol as well? Some negative side effects are possible.
Sad to hear he has died, but not surprised
Rich PIana vid
https://youtu.be/poBoIgyznHg
Rich Piana never does a front double bicep - WHY?
He did something.
https://youtu.be/poBoIgyznHg
Rich Piana never does a front double bicep - WHY?
He did something.
chris watton said:
I have contemplated taking steroids, but decided against it, too much risk at my age (50).
Hey Chris, this is interesting - can you tell me what you mean by too much risk at your age? And presumably you mean supraphysilogical levels rather than a 'top end of normal' "TRT" dose?The reason I ask is because I think 55-65 is the perfect time for men to start TRT level doses in an effort to help enable an amazing extra ~20 years of activity/ QoL. The only real risks for me would be knowing the quality of the injectable.
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