Steroids ?

[PBDirector]

just thinking about this risk thing - it's about trade offs, isn't it. IIRC the mortality stats are that if you suffer a fall aged 75 that snaps the neck of your femur, there's a 50% chance you'll be dead within a year.

If a 70 year old guy takes TRT doses that help him to get in the gym a few times a week and do lunges and split squats - do we think he's as likely to fall?

etc etc

[Thankyou4calling]

swerni said:

Because Dorian Yates and Tom Platz were entirely natural?

As mater if interest, did you know Les Horvath? He was competing when Dorian Yates first became famous and was involved when Tom Platz was over. It would have been later 80's or very early 90's

Yes I did know Les Horvath.

He was a protege of Bill Boyd and trained at Bills Gym in Stockton in the mid 80's.

I stayed with Bill and toured the North east with him.

Les had a good physique, Junior Britain winner i believe and Bill mentored him.

I remember Bill taking me to Paul Pattersons gym in I think Birtley or Stanley co. Durham, we went to a hardcore gym in Consett and up to Newcastle to see Charles Buchanan, John Citrone and many others.

Edited by Thankyou4calling on Sunday 27th August 13:47

[chris watton]

PBDirector said:

chris watton said:

I have contemplated taking steroids, but decided against it, too much risk at my age (50).

Hey Chris, this is interesting - can you tell me what you mean by too much risk at your age? And presumably you mean supraphysilogical levels rather than a 'top end of normal' "TRT" dose?

The reason I ask is because I think 55-65 is the perfect time for men to start TRT level doses in an effort to help enable an amazing extra ~20 years of activity/ QoL. The only real risks for me would be knowing the quality of the injectable.

I have read that they can enlarge the heart. I know the liver gets larger due to a higher intake of protein, but all studies seem to conclude there is no harm in this. I am not so sure what an enlarged heart would do to longevity, though.

I think my T levels are OK, as I concentrate on heavy compounds and force myself to my limits as often as my old bod will allow. I am sure I could almost double my size in a year with steroids, but at what price? I am fit, strong and healthy (relatively) now. I feel I would be risking throwing some of that away for vanity. Also, I am not as impatient as I once was. Just not worth the risk, perceived or not. In any case, I enjoy what I am doing and pushing myself as hard a I can naturally, I don't plan on entering any competition. Finally, I wonder what they would do to my joints and associated ligaments/tendons if I lifted much heavier than I do now. I am happy to try and chip away at my 140kg Bench 1RM at 73kg weight.

Perhaps I still have a couple of years to go before requiring TRT, I don't know.

One final point, for me at least, is that I am an 'all or nothing' type of person. I fear that if I did start to take them, I hate to think about where it would end..

[Halb]

chris watton said:

One final point, for me at least, is that I am an 'all or nothing' type of person. I fear that if I did start to take them, I hate to think about where it would end..

Same.


For those interested, look at stem cells, Bilzarian chats about them on a Joe Rogan podcast.

Also,for longevity, look at fasting.

[markcoznottz]

PBDirector said:

chris watton said:

I have contemplated taking steroids, but decided against it, too much risk at my age (50).

Hey Chris, this is interesting - can you tell me what you mean by too much risk at your age? And presumably you mean supraphysilogical levels rather than a 'top end of normal' "TRT" dose?

The reason I ask is because I think 55-65 is the perfect time for men to start TRT level doses in an effort to help enable an amazing extra ~20 years of activity/ QoL. The only real risks for me would be knowing the quality of the injectable.

At least Arnold and co knew what they were taking years ago, counterfeit just didn't exist.

[watwenwong]

markcoznottz said:

At least Arnold and co knew what they were taking years ago, counterfeit just didn't exist.

Quality can vary with UGL's (underground labs) and pharma gear is often faked too. But, if you find a good lab, the ugl stuff is pretty much as good as legit pharma. Some labs underdose, but generally that's as bad as it gets.

There's loads of feedback on labs available nowadays, so crap can be avoided pretty easily. You can also buy online with ease, if you do minimal homework.

To add- prescription pharma is always going to be the best test.

[J4CKO]

Wobbegong said:

Seems quite popular in certain parts of the world. I've seen a lot in the Middle East

Its a very distinct look, I think its one of those things that may fool people, but its a bit like having an MR2 "Ferrari", anyone who has a clue will most likely spot it, I guess it could be used to enhance someone who is already trained to address some deficiency but as the basis for an entire physique it really looks odd.

Is it permanent or does it eventually wear off ?

[mcelliott]

J4CKO said:

Wobbegong said:

Seems quite popular in certain parts of the world. I've seen a lot in the Middle East

Its a very distinct look, I think its one of those things that may fool people, but its a bit like having an MR2 "Ferrari", anyone who has a clue will most likely spot it, I guess it could be used to enhance someone who is already trained to address some deficiency but as the basis for an entire physique it really looks odd.

Is it permanent or does it eventually wear off ?

That ain't fooling anyone!

[Thankyou4calling]

swerni said:

Small world.
I trained there when I lived in Middlesbrough the late 80. His older brother was my training partner and still is a close personal friend.
We were trekking together last year in Burma.

Well there you go.

I visited and trained at Bills although I lived in London. He bought Tom Platz to the UK and I promoted the tour with him, Tom actually stayed at my parents house.

When I was with Bill he gave me some really good insights into the importance of diet and nutrition, chicken for breakfast, grilled, no skin.

Plus he pushed us hard, not always heavy but very intense.

Bought a lot of Panatta kit off Charles Buchanan and he is still a friend to this day.

I found Bill Boyd a bit full of himself though but I was 22 and impressionable.

[knk]

Anyone using SARMS? Pretty widely available , in fact I think someone who posts on here was selling them on their strongman training kit site.

Selective androgen receptor modulators or SARMs are a novel class of androgen receptor ligands. (The name follows the terminology currently used for similar molecules targeting the estrogen receptor, "selective estrogen receptor modulators," such as tamoxifen.) They are intended to have the same kind of effects as androgenic drugs like anabolic steroids but be much more selective in their action,[1] allowing them to be used for many more clinical indications than the relatively limited legitimate uses that anabolic steroids are currently approved for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_androgen_r...

[smiffy180]

knk said:

Anyone using SARMS? Pretty widely available , in fact I think someone who posts on here was selling them on their strongman training kit site.

Selective androgen receptor modulators or SARMs are a novel class of androgen receptor ligands. (The name follows the terminology currently used for similar molecules targeting the estrogen receptor, "selective estrogen receptor modulators," such as tamoxifen.) They are intended to have the same kind of effects as androgenic drugs like anabolic steroids but be much more selective in their action,[1] allowing them to be used for many more clinical indications than the relatively limited legitimate uses that anabolic steroids are currently approved for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_androgen_r...

Me and me hah.
Using them to help speed up healing process of tendon reattachment surgery.
Once I'm back to 100% I'll be using them for strength then assess whether or not gear is needed if I can manage to make it to WSM.

Loads of my customers swear by them for strength/size too, although I don't believe they've taken any gear before either so it's a big step up from creatine you could say.

[Hilts]

Thankyou4calling said:

Sorry.

Despite entering 12 Bodybuilding shows including 2 EFBB Britain finals, owning 5 gyms, being Divisional Director of 34, a training partner of Mr Olympia Dorian Yates, IFBB pros Selwyn Cotterill and Charles Clairmonte, promoting Tom Platz's seminar tour of the UK and being a NABBA judge I'm clueless.

Edited by Thankyou4calling on Thursday 24th August 17:17

What's your favourite steroid?

[Hilts]

smiffy180 said:

Me and me hah.
Using them to help speed up healing process of tendon reattachment surgery.
Once I'm back to 100% I'll be using them for strength then assess whether or not gear is needed if I can manage to make it to WSM.

Loads of my customers swear by them for strength/size too, although I don't believe they've taken any gear before either so it's a big step up from creatine you could say.

Which tendon did you tear?

I'm still recovering from a torn quad tendon.

[watwenwong]

Sarms have their place, but tbh the results are negligible.... I've tried Mk2866, and didn't notice much. Even low dose test blows it out of the water, by miles.

Plus they're largely untested, long term and a lot of the real Sarm formulas haven't been released, so you're buying an unknown, best guess mix.

[Halb]

watwenwong said:

Sarms have their place, but tbh the results are negligible.... I've tried Mk2866, and didn't notice much. Even low dose test blows it out of the water, by miles.

Plus they're largely untested, long term and a lot of the real Sarm formulas haven't been released, so you're buying an unknown, best guess mix.

Who manufactures the steroid you use?

[vonuber]

I'm on steroids due to side effect sof a brain tumour. I have to go to the hospital every 3 months for blood checks and monitoring to make sure I'm not going to have a stroke, heart attack etc. On average I have a cycle that peaks at around 35-40 nmol/l down to about 10, over the course of a week.
People who say they are safe for the average person to inject willy nilly are talking out of their arse.

[watwenwong]

Halb said:

Who manufactures the steroid you use?

I've tried a whole load of different labs, currently happy with the two I use, which I'll not name, as it's a source. Quality and reliability is spot on.

[Halb]

watwenwong said:

I've tried a whole load of different labs, currently happy with the two I use, which I'll not name, as it's a source. Quality and reliability is spot on.

What made me ask was, without the full legality of a trade name and regulations to back it up, how can you be sure the stuff is safe to take?

[Hilts]

vonuber said:

People who say they are safe for the average person to inject willy nilly are talking out of their arse.

So what's going to happen to the average person injecting steroids if it's not safe?

[watwenwong]

Halb said:

What made me ask was, without the full legality of a trade name and regulations to back it up, how can you be sure the stuff is safe to take?

Simple answer is you can't. Reputation rules with UGL's, you've got to do your research and go with that.

I've had bunk stuff before- gotta just write it off and avoid that lab/source next time.

Labs might underdose, or even use a cheaper alternative to what it says on the vial (this is why research is vital)- but it's not in their interest to kill you.