What training are you doing/have you done today? (Vol.3)
Discussion
ORD said:
For what my view as a weakling is worth, I think your push press is technically a bit iffy. I would say you could improve it in two respects:
(1) Your dip is a little bit deep. It should be short and violent. I am not saying you are way off. It is marginal. Others may disagree, but I have seen shallower dips work well for big guys.
(2) Your dip is perhaps a bit "knee dominant". You can generate more power by using the slight knee bend to load the hips and then slam them through (a bit like the second pull on a power clean but smaller). I may be seeing this wrong because the view is from the front, but it looks very much down and up.
At a guess, I would say the efficiency of the initial push is a massive element in shifting very big weights for reps. If you can get an inch or so more from the legs / hips, your arms with stay fresher for much longer.
Oh I know it's not optimal!(1) Your dip is a little bit deep. It should be short and violent. I am not saying you are way off. It is marginal. Others may disagree, but I have seen shallower dips work well for big guys.
(2) Your dip is perhaps a bit "knee dominant". You can generate more power by using the slight knee bend to load the hips and then slam them through (a bit like the second pull on a power clean but smaller). I may be seeing this wrong because the view is from the front, but it looks very much down and up.
At a guess, I would say the efficiency of the initial push is a massive element in shifting very big weights for reps. If you can get an inch or so more from the legs / hips, your arms with stay fresher for much longer.
Every time I do it, it feels 'off'.
Problem is no one in the gym is able to show me the proper movement or break it down.
I need a session somewhere that can help but without breaking the bank either
I can see I'm not bending hips either.
I'll give it a go tonight, I'm sure I used to do it properly but not done them for so long I'm a bit rusty.
Edited by smiffy180 on Friday 18th May 13:21
smiffy180 said:
Oh I know it's not optimal!
Every time I do it, it feels 'off'.
Problem is no one in the gym is able to show me the proper movement or break it down.
I need a session somewhere that can help but without breaking the bank either
It is a real shame that there are so few good strength coaches around. I guess you would need an olympic lifting coach. Every time I do it, it feels 'off'.
Problem is no one in the gym is able to show me the proper movement or break it down.
I need a session somewhere that can help but without breaking the bank either
Starting Strength do the "Press 2.0" which, bizarrely in my view, starts with a forward hip movement and uses the return to neutral to bump the bar up. It looks damn weird to me and feels horrible as compared to shifting back first and using the forward pop to lift. But at least it pushes the bar back a little so helps with a good lockout position. Not sure why they dont just push press it, to be honest.
Maybe DD can offer some insight - I know he has a big press.
Most of my push press comes from my legs, though Smiffy's out lifted me I rekon.
I break at the knee, very closely followed by a slight break the hip, then 'jump' by violently squeezing my glutes and straightening my legs. It's the glutes that fire me up- if you stand hands by side, bend slightly at the knee, then break the hip- pause, then smash the hips through using the glutes, you should jump off the ground a couple of inches.
If you don't break at the knee first, you'll tip forward. If you only break at the knee, you'll not get power in to it from the hips. If you break to much at the hip- you'll push it forward as well as up.
I break at the knee, very closely followed by a slight break the hip, then 'jump' by violently squeezing my glutes and straightening my legs. It's the glutes that fire me up- if you stand hands by side, bend slightly at the knee, then break the hip- pause, then smash the hips through using the glutes, you should jump off the ground a couple of inches.
If you don't break at the knee first, you'll tip forward. If you only break at the knee, you'll not get power in to it from the hips. If you break to much at the hip- you'll push it forward as well as up.
Watching my 150x6 video from last year, there's definitely some hip bend and it's much more powerful.
I'll have to use YouTube/internet for tips and cues and see if I can get a better pattern drilled in.
I guess the advantage of daily maxing means it shouldn't take long to drill it in
I'll have to use YouTube/internet for tips and cues and see if I can get a better pattern drilled in.
I guess the advantage of daily maxing means it shouldn't take long to drill it in
smiffy180 said:
Watching my 150x6 video from last year, there's definitely some hip bend and it's much more powerful.
I'll have to use YouTube/internet for tips and cues and see if I can get a better pattern drilled in.
I guess the advantage of daily maxing means it shouldn't take long to drill it in
Watch good Olympic lifters- the first part is the same- dip and drive. And TBH, learn to jerk if you can- something too long neglected by most strongmen!I'll have to use YouTube/internet for tips and cues and see if I can get a better pattern drilled in.
I guess the advantage of daily maxing means it shouldn't take long to drill it in
stuff here - https://www.catalystathletics.com/articles/search/...
Edited by didelydoo on Friday 18th May 14:23
didelydoo said:
Watch good Olympic lifters- the first part is the same- dip and drive. And TBH, learn to jerk if you can- something too long neglected by most strongmen!
stuff here - https://www.catalystathletics.com/articles/search/...
I don't do jerk because I don't see it as a 'true test of strength'.stuff here - https://www.catalystathletics.com/articles/search/...
Edited by didelydoo on Friday 18th May 14:23
You have to be strong to put up the weight obviously, but you can jerk more than you can push although it means very little in competition other than saying it
It is something I probably should learn as a back up for max overhead tbh.
Cheers been having a read and watch on YouTube, going to try some stuff tonight, I think I've been leaning back which is stopping the break at the hips.
smiffy180 said:
I don't do jerk because I don't see it as a 'true test of strength'.
You have to be strong to put up the weight obviously, but you can jerk more than you can push although it means very little in competition other than saying it
Another issue strongmen suffer from- why not just get your strict up if you want a true test, sans belt, no straps on deads, stones with no tacky etc You have to be strong to put up the weight obviously, but you can jerk more than you can push although it means very little in competition other than saying it
170kg jerk by a technically proficient, but weaker person, always beats a 169kg strict/push press by a much stronger, but more stubborn person. And more points make you win comps. Potential game changer in a comp, and a very silly thing to neglect IMO, especially if it can add 20+kg to your overhead with a bit of practice.
didelydoo said:
Another issue strongmen suffer from- why not just get your strict up if you want a true test, sans belt, no straps on deads, stones with no tacky etc
170kg jerk by a technically proficient, but weaker person, always beats a 169kg strict/push press by a much stronger, but more stubborn person. And more points make you win comps. Potential game changer in a comp, and a very silly thing to neglect IMO, especially if it can add 20+kg to your overhead with a bit of practice.
Ego 170kg jerk by a technically proficient, but weaker person, always beats a 169kg strict/push press by a much stronger, but more stubborn person. And more points make you win comps. Potential game changer in a comp, and a very silly thing to neglect IMO, especially if it can add 20+kg to your overhead with a bit of practice.
It's a fair point though.
smiffy180 said:
Ego
It's a fair point though.
100%! The biggest jerk will ALWAYS be more than the biggest push press, by a big margin too:It's a fair point though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQZjC7cNbyE
didelydoo said:
100%! The biggest jerk will ALWAYS be more than the biggest push press, by a big margin too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQZjC7cNbyE
Yeah, but that leotard did look *awfully* tight!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQZjC7cNbyE
V8mate said:
This afternoon's training has mainly involved watching Rippetoe videos and eating liquorice allsorts
I genuinely don't see the point. If you want help over the first few inches, the push press will do that for you. If you want to strict press, strict press. I don't see any room for some weird and wholly unnatural reverse hip movement to get the bar moving. - amidoingthisright
The push press is quite technical but is at least slightly similar to athletic movements (like jumping). The press 2.0 is ungodly.
When do you ever use hip snap backwards? It is, to my mind, the result of creating a cheat that can be called a technique. Why not just layback and call that a technique? It would involve more muscle mass (the Rippetoe reason for the 2.0), and you would be able to lift a lot more weight. Another thought: the same people that will not do a push press will obsess about leg drive in the bench press...which is pretty much a very ineffectual version of the leg involvement in a push press! (I am just grumpy because I have zero leg drive in my bench press!)
ORD said:
V8mate said:
This afternoon's training has mainly involved watching Rippetoe videos and eating liquorice allsorts
I genuinely don't see the point. If you want help over the first few inches, the push press will do that for you. If you want to strict press, strict press. I don't see any room for some weird and wholly unnatural reverse hip movement to get the bar moving. - amidoingthisright
The push press is quite technical but is at least slightly similar to athletic movements (like jumping). The press 2.0 is ungodly.
When do you ever use hip snap backwards? It is, to my mind, the result of creating a cheat that can be called a technique. Why not just layback and call that a technique? It would involve more muscle mass (the Rippetoe reason for the 2.0), and you would be able to lift a lot more weight. Another thought: the same people that will not do a push press will obsess about leg drive in the bench press...which is pretty much a very ineffectual version of the leg involvement in a push press! (I am just grumpy because I have zero leg drive in my bench press!)
V8mate said:
The hip wasn't snapping backwards. It was snapping forward, if anything, with the upward bounce off the furthest part of the push. It comes back because you're locked tight from core to toes.
The idea as I understand it as that the bar is launched up by the return to neutral from the hips going forward (i.e. snapping back).Rippetoe says "rebound".But, to my eye, most of the people in that Youtube video are just doing a layback and using some more chest to initiate the movement. I don't see the hip snap doing much for most of them. Rippetoe himself uses the fact of hip movement to sneak in some knee break, too, so he is basically doing a kind of push press (with hips going the wrong direction). If you watch videos of the very strong Starting Strength guys pressing big weight, you're looking a big layback, basically. It looks a lot like the pressing that got the press dropped from the Olympics.
ORD said:
V8mate said:
The hip wasn't snapping backwards. It was snapping forward, if anything, with the upward bounce off the furthest part of the push. It comes back because you're locked tight from core to toes.
The idea as I understand it as that the bar is launched up by the return to neutral from the hips going forward (i.e. snapping back).Rippetoe says "rebound".But, to my eye, most of the people in that Youtube video are just doing a layback and using some more chest to initiate the movement. I don't see the hip snap doing much for most of them. Rippetoe himself uses the fact of hip movement to sneak in some knee break, too, so he is basically doing a kind of push press (with hips going the wrong direction). If you watch videos of the very strong Starting Strength guys pressing big weight, you're looking a big layback, basically. It looks a lot like the pressing that got the press dropped from the Olympics.
And I could certainly feel all those triggers as I practised along with the video (without a bar, but with my liquorice allsorts
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