What training are you doing/have you done today? (Vol.3)

[didelydoo]

V8mate said:

Hey - thanks for the response. And absolutely agree that it's a back exercise - walk into any High St gym and there are more people doing back exercises with their arms, shoulders, chest etc, than not!

For me, the key part of the ROM is touching the belly button. I got the tip from a Mark Rippetoe tutorial, where he reinforced the importance of the bar making proper contact with the belly button, i.e. not just brushing the front of your vest etc.

I made a point of pulling the elbows just that little bit further back so that there was proper belly contact, and I really felt the lat activation. The weight you use >respect< seems to stop you getting that contact, and I was just wondering whether you'd improve your results if you could lift it that bit higher?

Hands-up though: you have a physique most of us can't even aspire to, so you must be doing something right!

I probably could pull a little further in to my hips at the top- but I'd not take it to the bellybutton, as that's not the line of my pull. However-It'd be a trade off with something else- less weight, less reps - so whether it'd be worth it is questionable. I'll give it a go though, as nothing ventured, nothing gained!

[V8mate]

Just been playing with the broom...

From a gravity-hang start, it's a straight, vertical 8" lift to my belly button.

[didelydoo]

V8mate said:

Just been playing with the broom...

From a gravity-hang start, it's a straight, vertical 8" lift to my belly button.

My preference is to pull the bar back- into the hips- to get more lat engagement. So up, and in to the hips, rather than just up- you feel the lats more this way IMO.

[V8mate]

didelydoo said:

My preference is to pull the bar back- into the hips- to get more lat engagement. So up, and in to the hips, rather than just up- you feel the lats more this way IMO.

I'll give that a go then!

[ORD]

V8mate said:

Just been playing with the broom...

From a gravity-hang start, it's a straight, vertical 8" lift to my belly button.

A vertical pull will likely involve your upper back quite a lot more than your lats. This is why Pendlay Rows are better for the upper back than they are for lats.

[Halb]

didelydoo said:

Crossfitters love a proper bit of strength training
I alternate T-bar with bent over BB rows- stops each going stale- last pull session was BOR, this one T-bar's. They feel very, very different in what they offer, so I like to have both in there. I'll probably add in DB rows next time too, just a pain as you've got to do both arms and the second one is always more tired....
BB rows are my fave, because I'm good at them, but T-bars are great too.
The rotation of main exercises keeps strength climbing and avoids stagnation, generally.

Not done t-bar for years, but I get the inand back thing, I do the same on my pullups. The fighter poullup by Pavel.
I like the idea of DC rotation. Do you alternate two for the big movement of each PPL day?

[ORD]

Upper body today. I've changed from Wednesday being horizontal pulling and pushing to vertical pulling and pushing, with some horizontal stuff on Monday and Friday.

OHP: 8 x 40 kg; 5 x 50 kg; 3 x 60 kg
S/S with pull ups: 5 x 20kg; 8 x 10 kg; 10 bodyweight (supposed to be 12 but I had nothing in the tank)

Landmine press: 12 x 40 kg; 8 x 50 kg; 5 x 55 kg
S/S with landmine row: 2 x 8 @ 45 kg

Lots of conditioning bumf and curls to finish.
I am so awful at curls that it surprises me every time - weak as a kitten. It makes no sense given that I am not bad at weighted pull ups and have weak lats - what the hell is moving my weight? It certainly is not my biceps.

[TheJimi]

Easy. Your lats are strong and your bi's are weak.

I bet you don't do much curl work do you? If not, there's your reason.

There's no way your lats are weak if you can do what you do pull-up wise.

Edit: I'm in the same boat as you. I can pull up with +50kg on me (71kg BW) yet I'm pish at curl stuff - and I do curls!

Edited by TheJimi on Wednesday 27th June 17:40

[ORD]

TheJimi said:

Easy. Your lats are strong and your bi's are weak.

I bet you don't do much curl work do you? If not, there's your reason.

There's no way your lats are weak if you can do what you do pull-up wise.

Edit: I'm in the same boat as you. I can pull up with +50kg on me (71kg BW) yet I'm pish at curl stuff - and I do curls!

Edited by TheJimi on Wednesday 27th June 17:40

That must be right, but I find it hard to believe that I am using my lats much in pull ups because (1) weighted pull ups are supposed be a great biceps exercise and (2) I never feel pull ups in my lats - I feel them in my upper back. All that said, I am pretty good at dumbbell rows, and I do feel those in my lats.

[Burwood]

My 2p worth. I've historically had a hard time engaging the lats/back. I now imagine i'm chinning when doing lat pull downs. I'd always get bicep fatigue before my back was being hit. But over the past 6 months I've been really hammering it and focussing. It's growing for sure. I can feel the extra muscle/fibres when i flex etc. On DD and his 'form'. We all have our own range and going through their motion. The sheer massive weight being used will hit the back no problem. Try bending over with 100kg and you'll see just what I mean when i say everything is engaged. The results speak for themselves, no?

[TheJimi]

ORD said:

TheJimi said:

Easy. Your lats are strong and your bi's are weak.

I bet you don't do much curl work do you? If not, there's your reason.

There's no way your lats are weak if you can do what you do pull-up wise.

Edit: I'm in the same boat as you. I can pull up with +50kg on me (71kg BW) yet I'm pish at curl stuff - and I do curls!

Edited by TheJimi on Wednesday 27th June 17:40

That must be right, but I find it hard to believe that I am using my lats much in pull ups because (1) weighted pull ups are supposed be a great biceps exercise and (2) I never feel pull ups in my lats - I feel them in my upper back. All that said, I am pretty good at dumbbell rows, and I do feel those in my lats.

Dude, just to get clear - pull-ups or chins?

[ORD]

TheJimi said:

Dude, just to get clear - pull-ups or chins?

I do both. I don’t bother much about the distinction because they are practically identical in terms of muscle recruitment. My favourite grip is the slanted one that’s not quite neutral, but I cycle them within a workout and over time.

My view is that the various types of pull up grips are so similar that the only real question is which gives you the least trouble in terms of overuse problems. I do more neutrals than chins and pulls because they are kindest to my knackered shoulders.

[didelydoo]

Halb said:

Not done t-bar for years, but I get the inand back thing, I do the same on my pullups. The fighter poullup by Pavel.
I like the idea of DC rotation. Do you alternate two for the big movement of each PPL day?

Generally I alternate 2 or 3 for the big movement on PPL. I also alternate the other stuff, but not quite as strictly. I aim to PB every session on something, and I usually do. I use rest/pause for the excercises it works well on, and to failure over a few sets on reppier stuff.

DC based, but tweaked to suit- I like to cover every possible growth path, neglecting reppier isolation stuff because it doesn’t ‘fit’ the ethos of DC seems silly. But rotation, general view and excercise choice is heavily based on DC

[didelydoo]

Heavy, rest pause dumbbell preachers work great for bi’s, and heavy DB hammer curls- that’s my go too’s. Reppy stuff never did it for me.

But generally, getting bigger over all is the best way! Mine grow slow as hell.

To add- heavy rows hammer your bi’s!

[ORD]

didelydoo said:

Heavy, rest pause dumbbell preachers work great for bi’s, and heavy DB hammer curls- that’s my go too’s. Reppy stuff never did it for me.

But generally, getting bigger over all is the best way! Mine grow slow as hell.

To add- heavy rows hammer your bi’s!

Interesting. Thanks. I don’t think I’ve ever seen any biceps growth that wasn’t simply correlated with gaining weight. I’ve never felt a row in my biceps, ever!

[TheJimi]

ORD said:

TheJimi said:

Dude, just to get clear - pull-ups or chins?

I do both. I don’t bother much about the distinction because they are practically identical in terms of muscle recruitment. My favourite grip is the slanted one that’s not quite neutral, but I cycle them within a workout and over time.

My view is that the various types of pull up grips are so similar that the only real question is which gives you the least trouble in terms of overuse problems. I do more neutrals than chins and pulls because they are kindest to my knackered shoulders.

I disagree there dude, the distinction between the types is pretty big, imo.

The amount of people I see who really struggle with pull-ups but who can do chins reasonably well.

There's definitely a big difference for most people. I'm strong enough for the variations to not mean a great deal to me other than the ability to change the focus. I suspect you're probably the same.

For most people tho? Big difference, in my experience of spending time in gyms.

[V8mate]

ORD said:

Interesting. Thanks. I don’t think I’ve ever seen any biceps growth that wasn’t simply correlated with gaining weight. I’ve never felt a row in my biceps, ever!

Switch the grip to underhand on a barbell row and you'll get a very flattering secondary kick to the biceps.

[ORD]

TheJimi said:

I disagree there dude, the distinction between the types is pretty big, imo.

The amount of people I see who really struggle with pull-ups but who can do chins reasonably well.

There's definitely a big difference for most people. I'm strong enough for the variations to not mean a great deal to me other than the ability to change the focus. I suspect you're probably the same.

For most people tho? Big difference, in my experience of spending time in gyms.

If a person has a very weak back, they might be able to get away with a few chins by just using their biceps. But not many. Anyone using proper form is getting pretty much the same contribution from the various muscle grips no matter what grip they use. There are some differences of course - chins use the biceps a bit more and neutral grip allows the brachialis (q spelling) to contribute more.

I think that once you are reasonably good at vertical pulling, the biggest diffetences will come from individual anatomy. I basically cannot do wide arm pull ups because they chew the st out of my shoulders. Not something I’ve heard much about, but the sensation is horrible.

[Fatlad1973]

So I weighed myself this morning and I'm 14st 11lb, pretty much exactly what I was last year (I'm 5ft 10). I reckon I am a bit more muscular than last year for the same weight, but it's really not much different.That would be fine but I'm actually exercising a lot and, while aged 45 I can't expect miracles, I'm pretty disappointed with the results. It may be my own fault (well, obviously it is but I mean it might be plain stupidity rather than idleness etc. Yes there's too much beer and takeaways, but I haven't gained weight).

So this week the schedule has been/ is planned to be:

Sunday: Half marathon completed in 2 hours 10 minutes (usually do a 10k run training for this)
Monday: Oddly enough a rest day
Tuesday: Lower body (127.5kg squats 5x4 reps, 115kg RDLs 4 x 6 reps, 130kg hip thrusters 3x 6reps followed by 30 minutes yoga)
Wednesday: HIIT session with PT (pull ups, rope, dips, plyometric press-ups, prowler)
Today: Off for cheeky upper body session (95kg 5x 6-8 bench, 80kg 5x 8 reps Pendlay row, 55kg 5x 6-8 reps military press, pull ups 4x 5 BW)
Friday: lower body (deadlift 165kg 1-2 reps for 4 sets, 80kg squats 5 sets of 10 reps, legpress 220kg for 3 sets of 10 reps)
Saturday: rest
Sunday: ?

Going forward the running gets dropped. Any other thoughts??

[popeyewhite]

Chins are a lot easier than pullups. There's farmore biceps involvement. If you struggle on widegrip pullups and you feel your shoulders don't 'feel right' then unless you have an injury it's simply that you have weak shoulders. They're really only synergists during a wgpu so shouldn't cause that much trouble if they are anatomically sound. Post a vid?