What training are you doing/have you done today? (Vol.3)

[OriginalFDM]

didelydoo said:

OriginalFDM said:

Thanks to everyone, really solid advice all round.

Just so I’m crystal clear - if my maintenance cals / BMR are say 1700 I should be aiming for 1200 a day for a 500 cal deficit - but if I exercise say 500 cals, should I be adding that to my BMR so that my deficit for the day is still the same?

Ie in simple terms if I exercise more I should eat more rather than taking the ‘extra’ deficit created through exercise as presumably that’ll just lead to tiredness or muscle wastage if I’m not getting enough cals ?

BMR is the calories you need to maintain at rest, doing nothing, just being alive- this doesn't take into account moving, being active etc etc. So don't use that as a base line.
Work out your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE)- this will give you calories you use in a normal day- then take this figure and knock off 500.

You can work it both ways- either 500 off your TDEE inclusive of exercise, or 500 off the TDEE + exercise (so more than 500 deficit on these days). I'd tend to drop 500 off my TDEE, and + exercise on top of that - but if you're burning loads of cals (probably unlikely) you may not want to do that, or go somewhere in between.

Great thanks for clarification. I’m pretty sedentary in my job (and often at home!) so probably not as much distinction between BMR and TDEE for me but I’ll look into working that out!

Thanks, that’s what I tend to do at the moment - eat the same whether I exercise or not. If I find it’s making me too exhausted I’ll start to up the cals on an exercise day.

[TheJimi]

My approach would be to maintain dietary status quo, and engage in a proper programme of resistance training.

Be consistent, log everything be continually progressive in terms of weights lifted or reps.

Do that and then assess what you need to do in terms of nutrition.

Speak nicely to the guy above

Edited by TheJimi on Wednesday 18th December 10:26

[Mothersruin]

OriginalFDM said:

didelydoo said:

OriginalFDM said:

Thanks to everyone, really solid advice all round.

Just so I’m crystal clear - if my maintenance cals / BMR are say 1700 I should be aiming for 1200 a day for a 500 cal deficit - but if I exercise say 500 cals, should I be adding that to my BMR so that my deficit for the day is still the same?

Ie in simple terms if I exercise more I should eat more rather than taking the ‘extra’ deficit created through exercise as presumably that’ll just lead to tiredness or muscle wastage if I’m not getting enough cals ?

BMR is the calories you need to maintain at rest, doing nothing, just being alive- this doesn't take into account moving, being active etc etc. So don't use that as a base line.
Work out your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE)- this will give you calories you use in a normal day- then take this figure and knock off 500.

You can work it both ways- either 500 off your TDEE inclusive of exercise, or 500 off the TDEE + exercise (so more than 500 deficit on these days). I'd tend to drop 500 off my TDEE, and + exercise on top of that - but if you're burning loads of cals (probably unlikely) you may not want to do that, or go somewhere in between.

Great thanks for clarification. I’m pretty sedentary in my job (and often at home!) so probably not as much distinction between BMR and TDEE for me but I’ll look into working that out!

Thanks, that’s what I tend to do at the moment - eat the same whether I exercise or not. If I find it’s making me too exhausted I’ll start to up the cals on an exercise day.

I'm 5'11, currently 78kg and on a really slow increase. Run a couple of times a week, three weight sessions a week and random hill stuff. I aim for 2,800 to 3,000 calories a day. I do a quick check on MyFitnessPal once in a while just to check things are there or thereabouts, but I'm pretty good at getting it close now just from experience. Always good to check though.

Once I'm around 82kg, I'll simply reduce by around 500 a day, which I could probably do just by taking my whole milk and ice cream down a bit and I'll up the extended cardio.

As said too, your posture makes a big difference to how you can look. If I slouch and let my pelvis tilt, then I look like a Buddha, if I stand up straight, shoulders back, engage arse and abs, and level out the pelvis, flat stomach look great!

[MC Bodge]

OriginalFDM said:

Great thanks for clarification. I’m pretty sedentary in my job (and often at home!) so probably not as much distinction between BMR and TDEE for me but I’ll look into working that out!

Thanks, that’s what I tend to do at the moment - eat the same whether I exercise or not. If I find it’s making me too exhausted I’ll start to up the cals on an exercise day.

Eat good meals. Don't snack.

Be generally more active is my advice. I would say that this applies to most people.

Walk, Cycle or run (even part-way) to work or the shops - use a trolley or trailer of necessary. Use shopping as an opportunity for a Farmer's walk.

Stand for some of the day.

Walk or exercise at lunchtime. You don't need to enter a gym. Look for outdoor natural and built obstacles.

Don't just slump in front of the TV every evening and be active at weekends, especially outdoors.

Stretch and hold/balance.

[OriginalFDM]

Mothersruin said:

OriginalFDM said:

didelydoo said:

OriginalFDM said:

Thanks to everyone, really solid advice all round.

Just so I’m crystal clear - if my maintenance cals / BMR are say 1700 I should be aiming for 1200 a day for a 500 cal deficit - but if I exercise say 500 cals, should I be adding that to my BMR so that my deficit for the day is still the same?

Ie in simple terms if I exercise more I should eat more rather than taking the ‘extra’ deficit created through exercise as presumably that’ll just lead to tiredness or muscle wastage if I’m not getting enough cals ?

BMR is the calories you need to maintain at rest, doing nothing, just being alive- this doesn't take into account moving, being active etc etc. So don't use that as a base line.
Work out your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE)- this will give you calories you use in a normal day- then take this figure and knock off 500.

You can work it both ways- either 500 off your TDEE inclusive of exercise, or 500 off the TDEE + exercise (so more than 500 deficit on these days). I'd tend to drop 500 off my TDEE, and + exercise on top of that - but if you're burning loads of cals (probably unlikely) you may not want to do that, or go somewhere in between.

Great thanks for clarification. I’m pretty sedentary in my job (and often at home!) so probably not as much distinction between BMR and TDEE for me but I’ll look into working that out!

Thanks, that’s what I tend to do at the moment - eat the same whether I exercise or not. If I find it’s making me too exhausted I’ll start to up the cals on an exercise day.

I'm 5'11, currently 78kg and on a really slow increase. Run a couple of times a week, three weight sessions a week and random hill stuff. I aim for 2,800 to 3,000 calories a day. I do a quick check on MyFitnessPal once in a while just to check things are there or thereabouts, but I'm pretty good at getting it close now just from experience. Always good to check though.

Once I'm around 82kg, I'll simply reduce by around 500 a day, which I could probably do just by taking my whole milk and ice cream down a bit and I'll up the extended cardio.

As said too, your posture makes a big difference to how you can look. If I slouch and let my pelvis tilt, then I look like a Buddha, if I stand up straight, shoulders back, engage arse and abs, and level out the pelvis, flat stomach look great!

Interesting. So to someone who’s relatively new to the science behind all this stuff, what’s the concept behind this?

You’re 78 kg now and eating more to gain another 4 kilos, at which point you’ll eat less to reduce it back down.

So is the logic of that that the gain is lean muscle mass and not fat? Or it’ll be mostly muscle but some fat and then you’ll reduce your calories to remove any fat gained? I’m guessing that’s where I may be when I get my body fat down to where I want it to be and start focusing on building muscle and creating a more athletic look.

[Mothersruin]

OriginalFDM said:

Interesting. So to someone who’s relatively new to the science behind all this stuff, what’s the concept behind this?

You’re 78 kg now and eating more to gain another 4 kilos, at which point you’ll eat less to reduce it back down.

So is the logic of that that the gain is lean muscle mass and not fat? Or it’ll be mostly muscle but some fat and then you’ll reduce your calories to remove any fat gained? I’m guessing that’s where I may be when I get my body fat down to where I want it to be and start focusing on building muscle and creating a more athletic look.

Sort of, also remember that the more lean mass you have the more calories you burn, so you can't stick at a set number as the controlled excess will diminish the more muscle you put on. Also a heavier person will burn more just going about daily life - so it's a bit fluid. I can also tell if I'm not eating enough as I won't get stronger and recovery isn't as good.

I know i'm good around 80kgs, if I can stay around that with bodyfat around 12%, I'm in a happy place.

You're doing stuff the arse end way around - don't worry about losing weight now, get in the gym, lift, eat the right stuff and plenty of it. Get at least 8 weeks of a decent beginners program done then see where you're at - you'll have learnt a ton, feel markedly different and be able to make a much more educated decision on where to go and how right we were in the first place

[mcelliott]

It's almost impossible to gain a decent amount of muscle without gaining some fat, but that can be kept to a minimum if your diet is on point. Food is the most important factor when it comes to getting stronger and adding muscle tissue.

[Ed/L152]

What to do when your novice linear progression hits the buffers?

Having not exercised or trained much for 20 years my mini-midlife crisis caused me to hit the gym in September. I've been going at least 3 times a week doing a linear progression on bench, OHP, low bar back squat and dead, learning the lifts mostly from Starting Strength. Obviously a linear progression can't last for ever, but I've been surprised quite how abruptly it stopped about 3-4 weeks or so ago. I've mucked about with lat pulldown but it's generally been the exercise to get chucked if I run out of time. In absolute terms my lifts aren't impressive at all, but relatively I've been pleased with my progress.

What to do now? So far I've been mostly trying to continue the programme, but adding in phases of 10-20% resets, plus adding extra sets and/or reps to keep the volume up if I'm not near a weight PR. I'm currently doing at least 3 sets of at least 5 reps. On days when I simply can not lift what I did last week I do an extra set of something lighter.

Starting strength has been good for me because it was simple. Should I add in more accessories? Or look at properly following an alternative programme, or just keep plugging away? Does the programme particularly matter, so long as you're persistent and keeping the volume up?

40yo male, I don't sleep quite enough, and I eat at least 150g protein a day, using whey to supplement. Any advice appreciated, thanks!

Edited by Ed/L152 on Wednesday 18th December 14:29

[didelydoo]

Ed/L152 said:

What to do when your novice linear progression hits the buffers?

Having not exercised or trained much for 20 years my mini-midlife crisis caused me to hit the gym in September. I've been going at least 3 times a week doing a linear progression on bench, OHP, low bar back squat and dead, learning the lifts mostly from Starting Strength. Obviously a linear progression can't last for ever, but I've been surprised quite how abruptly it stopped about 3-4 weeks or so ago. I've mucked about with lat pulldown but it's generally been the exercise to get chucked if I run out of time. In absolute terms my lifts aren't impressive at all, but relatively I've been pleased with my progress.

What to do now? So far I've been mostly trying to continue the programme, but adding in phases of 10-20% resets, plus adding extra sets and/or reps to keep the volume up if I'm not near a weight PR. I'm currently doing at least 3 sets of at least 5 reps. On days when I simply can not lift what I did last week I do an extra set of something lighter.

Starting strength has been good for me because it was simple. Should I add in more accessories? Or look at properly following an alternative programme, or just keep plugging away? Does the programme particularly matter, so long as you're persistent and keeping the volume up?

40yo male, I don't sleep quite enough, and I eat at least 150g protein a day, using whey to supplement. Any advice appreciated, thanks!

Edited by Ed/L152 on Wednesday 18th December 14:29

If there's a stall there are a few options:

1) have a break- maybe you need a bit of recover after over reaching for a period of time?
2) Pick a different rep range to work in (higher or lower) stick with it until you plateau again
3) Pick different movements- eg incline bench or DB's instead of flat, Front squat instead of squat etc etc
4) pick a different program
5) up your calories
6) push yourself harder (sounds silly, but you are probably capable of working harder if you really try)

Try these one at a time, so you can figure out what works. Don't make too many changes all at once- progress comes from getting real strong on the basics, and variations of the basics- consistently, for a long time. Before altering anything, i'd look at taking a week off, or upping calories.

[V8mate]

I'd also add, if the main lifts are peaking, get a personal trainer who specialises in lifting or look to some online trainers for some 'fun' accessory sets.

Jeff at AthleanX does some great full workouts for specific muscles, e.g. biceps, triceps, shoulders etc. They make a great change, and hammering small muscle groups really contributes to overall strength when you return to the big lifts.

I also found that periods with a PT helped as they push me so much harder than I work alone, no matter how great my motivation. Even if it's just a single rep. But they're constantly timing rest periods. Some on here are super-human and pooh-pooh PTs - and I'm not suggesting that it's not a minefield finding a good one - but for mere mortals they can bring renewed enthusiasm and achievement from time to time.

[ORD]

PTs are great for conditioning, no doubt. It’s hard to find one who knows much about lifting, though.

[V8mate]

Thanks for confirming my prediction.

[TheJimi]

For balance, for a long time, I trained in a proper spit & sawdust joint, literally an old barn. I wasn't exposed to the culture of PTs.

On the basis of that, I used to think that folk on here were overly harsh on PTs.

Now, having spent he past 5 years training in a PureGym, I absolutely agree with the general sentiment in terms of your average commercial gym PT.

[V8mate]

I don't deny that the majority are poorly educated wannabes, and acknowledged that in my post, but good ones do exist.

Bear in mind that the OP we're helping is at the beginning of his journey and it's bloody difficult to do everything right without an oppo.

And if our Smiffy finds benefit in having input from a coach, I think we can be sure that there are people who can deliver benefit out there.

[hyphen]

mcelliott said:

It's almost impossible to gain a decent amount of muscle without gaining some fat, but that can be kept to a minimum if your diet is on point. Food is the most important factor when it comes to getting stronger and adding muscle tissue.

Food and sleep

[TheJimi]

V8mate said:

I don't deny that the majority are poorly educated wannabes, and acknowledged that in my post, but good ones do exist.

Bear in mind that the OP we're helping is at the beginning of his journey and it's bloody difficult to do everything right without an oppo.

And if our Smiffy finds benefit in having input from a coach, I think we can be sure that there are people who can deliver benefit out there.

I was simply stating my experience of observing "the average commercial gym PT" - hence my specific qualification of that point.

Big difference between those guys and a proper serious coach. Worlds apart.

[OriginalFDM]

Considering you can barely ever get on any of the weight/resistance stuff at my gym due to over subscription and groups of mates hogging everything....I’m considering investing a couple of years worth of membership in something to use at home instead.

I have a small amount of space in the garage and was wondering if there’s a good ‘multi gym’ type bit of kit that doesn’t cost a kidney but would give me a good upper body workout that I can do at home in addition to cardio at the work gym/outside.

[didelydoo]

Time for some R&R...

V squat set from today, was one of my top 10 hardest sets I've ever done- not the heaviest I've gone, but a real max effort:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B6SRE8UDPsK/?utm_sourc...

[MC Bodge]

OriginalFDM said:

Considering you can barely ever get on any of the weight/resistance stuff at my gym due to over subscription and groups of mates hogging everything....I’m considering investing a couple of years worth of membership in something to use at home instead.

I have a small amount of space in the garage and was wondering if there’s a good ‘multi gym’ type bit of kit that doesn’t cost a kidney but would give me a good upper body workout that I can do at home in addition to cardio at the work gym/outside.

I wouldn't spend any money on a multi gym.

Free, unstable weights and your own body will do for now.

At your stage, I would invest in the Convict Conditioning and/or "You are your own gym" calisthenics books.

I'd also buy/make a couple of sandbags and look up exercises.

Later, a 16kg kettlebell(and some instruction on how to use it safely), a chin up bar, a TRX type suspension trainer, a sledgehammer and maybe some dumbells. A Barbell later, but you really need some safety kit for using it solo.

Learn how to use the above kit properly, work hard and you will be doing well.

Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 20th December 09:28

[popeyewhite]

MC Bodge said:

I wouldn't spend any money on a multi gym.

This. For a number of reasons.
And find a more suitable gym. Spend some time getting to know your body and how it responds to exercise. Read about programming and periodisation. Think longterm goals.