Alcohol Consumption - Open question
Discussion
Dr Jekyll said:
But cultures, conditions, revenue etc have no bearing on what is a healthy, percentage of alcoholics certainly doesn't. Yet breaching the guidelines is supposed to be inherently unhealthy. The guidelines are, as you say, subjective, in fact arbitrary. More succinctly, 8ollox.
Yes that's right, medical opinion is b
ks. andy_s said:
Dr Jekyll said:
But cultures, conditions, revenue etc have no bearing on what is a healthy, percentage of alcoholics certainly doesn't. Yet breaching the guidelines is supposed to be inherently unhealthy. The guidelines are, as you say, subjective, in fact arbitrary. More succinctly, 8ollox.
Yes that's right, medical opinion is bks. Dr Jekyll said:
andy_s said:
Dr Jekyll said:
But cultures, conditions, revenue etc have no bearing on what is a healthy, percentage of alcoholics certainly doesn't. Yet breaching the guidelines is supposed to be inherently unhealthy. The guidelines are, as you say, subjective, in fact arbitrary. More succinctly, 8ollox.
Yes that's right, medical opinion is bks. 
I've a feeling medical opinion may have come into it at some stage though - don't you?
Anyway, it's not legislation, it's a guideline, feel free to invent your own.
Read Allen Carr's book on Alcohol.
The style is slightly irritating and he repeats himself a lot, but it makes you question some of the 'norms' in society. For example, why is drinking a poison on a regular basis normalised in society. How things became this way etc.
If nothing else, it will make you think about the global acceptance of alcohol consumption and what alcoholism really is. According to his book you are addicted to alcohol. And to be honest, there is no shame in knowing that, because it's an incredibly addictive substance, which isn't something I ever really thought about before reading the book.
The style is slightly irritating and he repeats himself a lot, but it makes you question some of the 'norms' in society. For example, why is drinking a poison on a regular basis normalised in society. How things became this way etc.
If nothing else, it will make you think about the global acceptance of alcohol consumption and what alcoholism really is. According to his book you are addicted to alcohol. And to be honest, there is no shame in knowing that, because it's an incredibly addictive substance, which isn't something I ever really thought about before reading the book.
Jiebo said:
Read Allen Carr's book on Alcohol.
The style is slightly irritating and he repeats himself a lot, but it makes you question some of the 'norms' in society. For example, why is drinking a poison on a regular basis normalised in society. How things became this way etc.
If nothing else, it will make you think about the global acceptance of alcohol consumption and what alcoholism really is. According to his book you are addicted to alcohol. And to be honest, there is no shame in knowing that, because it's an incredibly addictive substance, which isn't something I ever really thought about before reading the book.
Isn't everything a poison in excess? Even water.The style is slightly irritating and he repeats himself a lot, but it makes you question some of the 'norms' in society. For example, why is drinking a poison on a regular basis normalised in society. How things became this way etc.
If nothing else, it will make you think about the global acceptance of alcohol consumption and what alcoholism really is. According to his book you are addicted to alcohol. And to be honest, there is no shame in knowing that, because it's an incredibly addictive substance, which isn't something I ever really thought about before reading the book.
So I don't think we should be anti alcohol because it's a poison. Simply that the old adage "everything in moderation" applies. And where that line is has been generalised as the guidelines. Some can exceed them with no issue and other can't but it is there as a guideline for us to take not of or not as we see fit.
MikeStroud said:
Isn't everything a poison in excess? Even water.
So I don't think we should be anti alcohol because it's a poison. Simply that the old adage "everything in moderation" applies. And where that line is has been generalised as the guidelines. Some can exceed them with no issue and other can't but it is there as a guideline for us to take not of or not as we see fit.
I’m tee-total. It is not, as I used to say, because I view my body as a temple. Nor is it because, when I got fed up with people telling me to ‘go on, just have one’, that I’m a recovering alcoholic. Rather mundanely, I’m alcohol intolerant. So I don't think we should be anti alcohol because it's a poison. Simply that the old adage "everything in moderation" applies. And where that line is has been generalised as the guidelines. Some can exceed them with no issue and other can't but it is there as a guideline for us to take not of or not as we see fit.
What that means is that I vomit blood if I drink alcohol. I discovered this when I was 32. I never drank much, but when I did I enjoyed it.
In order to feel better about it I studied problems with alcohol, even getting medical research before the internet. Now it is easy to see what alcohol does to the body. There is no comparison between the quantities of water that harms the body and that of alcohol. You could swim in the amount of water that would harm you.
Alcohol is a poison, that’s the reason I can’t drink it.
I had a biopsy on a couple of lumps in my throat. I was told that the surgeon, who did the op three times a week, with 8 or 9 patients each time, for a dozen or so years, had never done a tracheotomy on someone like me who neither drank nor smoked.
Driving a race car is dangerous but there’s a tremendous amount of fun to be gained from doing so. I’ve wondered, especially since April 1979, whether there is similar enjoyment from drinking alcohol. In a car, skill can get you out of most problems, with alcohol you are in the lap of chance. Can't afford a race car? What, no even if you gave up drinking?
Derek Smith said:
In order to feel better about it I studied problems with alcohol, even getting medical research before the internet. Now it is easy to see what alcohol does to the body. There is no comparison between the quantities of water that harms the body and that of alcohol. You could swim in the amount of water that would harm you.
I'm not sure what 'medical research' you did but it only takes around 6 litres of water to kill you by massive hyponatremia. Try swimming in that! Trophy Husband said:
Why so? If alcohol over 14 units per week is bad for you then it is bad for me, my mother, brother, father, Fanny's aunt, everybody. We know for instance that if you put your hand in the fire it will be burned. If I do it so will mine etc. etc. That is a binary. All will get burned.
My mother has consumed 10-14 units per day, that's per day! 70-98 units per week for years and years. I'm assuming that her liver consists of the same biology as all others? And yet here she is. If the guidance is 'true' then she should not be here should she?
Post hoc ergo propter hocMy mother has consumed 10-14 units per day, that's per day! 70-98 units per week for years and years. I'm assuming that her liver consists of the same biology as all others? And yet here she is. If the guidance is 'true' then she should not be here should she?
The government is damned if it does, and damned if it does not. It has a responsibility to provide guidance based on the available science, to ensure the population remains healthy, reduce strain on the NHS and minimise the impact on GDP due to sickness.
Think of the drinking "limits" as stock power. Sure, there's plenty of headroom to remap safely, but stock means it can operate across the widest set of scenarios. Apply that to the 14 a day. Plenty of people will tolerate omre, due to genetics, built up tolerance or whatever, but, that limit is set so it creates a safe recommendation across a varied population of 60m plus.
Alcohol is also a trigger for other illnesses, such as obesity, heart disease and various cancers. The recommended limit needs to be considered in light of this also, it's not just about the liver.
So, the government gives the people the information, and bearing in mind the high percentage of the population are morons, people then make an informed decision.
Edited by Labradorofperception on Sunday 20th January 11:06
How would someone go about getting a liver scan? I used to absolutely cane it in my late teens and through my twenties. Thirties not much better and only early 40s where I've been thinking hmmm better tie a knot in that. I asked GP for a liver scan and he said no, LFT are fine but if you're worried just stop drinking. I contacted local private just for a scan and they sent back a whole raft of questions which put me off. All I want is the equivalent of an oil analysis and report.
If the scan showed anything abnormal I'd give up right away. If normal I'd crack on as I do lately, 25-30 units ish a week.
To the OP I'd be concerned at that, spirits every day can't be good.
If the scan showed anything abnormal I'd give up right away. If normal I'd crack on as I do lately, 25-30 units ish a week.
To the OP I'd be concerned at that, spirits every day can't be good.
Jiebo said:
Read Allen Carr's book on Alcohol.
The style is slightly irritating and he repeats himself a lot, but it makes you question some of the 'norms' in society. For example, why is drinking a poison on a regular basis normalised in society. How things became this way etc.
If nothing else, it will make you think about the global acceptance of alcohol consumption and what alcoholism really is. According to his book you are addicted to alcohol. And to be honest, there is no shame in knowing that, because it's an incredibly addictive substance, which isn't something I ever really thought about before reading the book.
Bought it and read it over 2 days. Thanks for that one excellent book. The style is slightly irritating and he repeats himself a lot, but it makes you question some of the 'norms' in society. For example, why is drinking a poison on a regular basis normalised in society. How things became this way etc.
If nothing else, it will make you think about the global acceptance of alcohol consumption and what alcoholism really is. According to his book you are addicted to alcohol. And to be honest, there is no shame in knowing that, because it's an incredibly addictive substance, which isn't something I ever really thought about before reading the book.
bmwmike said:
How would someone go about getting a liver scan? I used to absolutely cane it in my late teens and through my twenties. Thirties not much better and only early 40s where I've been thinking hmmm better tie a knot in that. I asked GP for a liver scan and he said no, LFT are fine but if you're worried just stop drinking. I contacted local private just for a scan and they sent back a whole raft of questions which put me off. All I want is the equivalent of an oil analysis and report.
If the scan showed anything abnormal I'd give up right away. If normal I'd crack on as I do lately, 25-30 units ish a week.
To the OP I'd be concerned at that, spirits every day can't be good.
Same here. If a scan showed a fatty liver, that’s all the motivation I would need.If the scan showed anything abnormal I'd give up right away. If normal I'd crack on as I do lately, 25-30 units ish a week.
To the OP I'd be concerned at that, spirits every day can't be good.
OP so you are having three doubles every day?
There are better ways to unwind after work. It doesn't need to be alcohol every day. Do you need to drink every day?
Gym it before getting home or at least reduce the measure. You are basically drinking a bottle of Scotch a week.
What is concerning is at some point there will be an event which means you lift the 150ml.
There are better ways to unwind after work. It doesn't need to be alcohol every day. Do you need to drink every day?
Gym it before getting home or at least reduce the measure. You are basically drinking a bottle of Scotch a week.
What is concerning is at some point there will be an event which means you lift the 150ml.
Some very interesting posts, and apologies I cannot respond to everyone. Thank you for all the views & replies.
I have not replied yet, as it is tricky knowing what to say, without going into chapter & verse and either making it sound like a sob story or justifying my drinking. My situation means on the whole I am very lucky, supported & loved...but a very testing 6 months personally & professionally has meant I have up'd my drinking from a previous couple of times a week to nightly. This period has yet to pass, hence me taking time to ponder this whilst I still can (to sound dramatic!)
I have not drank the last couple of nights, for the first time in several weeks which has been relatively easy to do - despite last night being one of hardest evenings I have had in a very very long time. I would have liked to, but didn't feel the urge to. I am planning on having a few beers this evening though, due to a social engagement. Next week ill try & skip 2 days of drinking again and go from there.
Yes 100-150ml an evening, more or less 7 days a week adds up to many litres a month. Yes I am aware it could & would likely creep up. I am keeping an eye on that and have been ensuring my amounts don't creep up.
Weight, health, fitness, sleep, attitude & life is managed well & has had no ill effects with my drinking.
I would very much like a Liver Function test. I am a surveyor by trade so facts, figure & measurements are almost a perversion of mine and that would very much give me the ''OK'' to continue as I am, or would have me emptying the booze cupboard and going cold turkey until the numbers added up again. I would VERY much welcome any ideas on how I can request one.
I have not replied yet, as it is tricky knowing what to say, without going into chapter & verse and either making it sound like a sob story or justifying my drinking. My situation means on the whole I am very lucky, supported & loved...but a very testing 6 months personally & professionally has meant I have up'd my drinking from a previous couple of times a week to nightly. This period has yet to pass, hence me taking time to ponder this whilst I still can (to sound dramatic!)
I have not drank the last couple of nights, for the first time in several weeks which has been relatively easy to do - despite last night being one of hardest evenings I have had in a very very long time. I would have liked to, but didn't feel the urge to. I am planning on having a few beers this evening though, due to a social engagement. Next week ill try & skip 2 days of drinking again and go from there.
Yes 100-150ml an evening, more or less 7 days a week adds up to many litres a month. Yes I am aware it could & would likely creep up. I am keeping an eye on that and have been ensuring my amounts don't creep up.
Weight, health, fitness, sleep, attitude & life is managed well & has had no ill effects with my drinking.
I would very much like a Liver Function test. I am a surveyor by trade so facts, figure & measurements are almost a perversion of mine and that would very much give me the ''OK'' to continue as I am, or would have me emptying the booze cupboard and going cold turkey until the numbers added up again. I would VERY much welcome any ideas on how I can request one.
Roberts13 said:
I have not replied yet, as it is tricky knowing what to say, without going into chapter & verse and either making it sound like a sob story or justifying my drinking. My situation means on the whole I am very lucky, supported & loved...but a very testing 6 months personally & professionally has meant I have up'd my drinking from a previous couple of times a week to nightly. This period has yet to pass, hence me taking time to ponder this whilst I still can (to sound dramatic!)
Weight, health, fitness, sleep, attitude & life is managed well & has had no ill effects with my drinking.
I would very much like a Liver Function test. I am a surveyor by trade so facts, figure & measurements are almost a perversion of mine and that would very much give me the ''OK'' to continue as I am, or would have me emptying the booze cupboard and going cold turkey until the numbers added up again. I would VERY much welcome any ideas on how I can request one.
Apologies for the snip - but these paragraphs don't add up.Weight, health, fitness, sleep, attitude & life is managed well & has had no ill effects with my drinking.
I would very much like a Liver Function test. I am a surveyor by trade so facts, figure & measurements are almost a perversion of mine and that would very much give me the ''OK'' to continue as I am, or would have me emptying the booze cupboard and going cold turkey until the numbers added up again. I would VERY much welcome any ideas on how I can request one.
On the one hand you state that you have been using alcohol as a crutch, on the other you say that everything is just fine.
Lastly, I am not sure it is sensible to take a snapshot test and use it to make a judgement on a chronic habit, but again you say your health is fine and your drinking has had no impact, but you still want a liver function test.
If you do go back on previous threads there is a lot of this - lots of people have moments where they start to question their habit, make a change, and then rationalise it all away because it wasn't a problem really, was it? Then they're back on it.
Quite interesting to see.
Roberts13 said:
Some very interesting posts, and apologies I cannot respond to everyone. Thank you for all the views & replies.
I have not replied yet, as it is tricky knowing what to say, without going into chapter & verse and either making it sound like a sob story or justifying my drinking. My situation means on the whole I am very lucky, supported & loved...but a very testing 6 months personally & professionally has meant I have up'd my drinking from a previous couple of times a week to nightly. This period has yet to pass, hence me taking time to ponder this whilst I still can (to sound dramatic!)
I have not drank the last couple of nights, for the first time in several weeks which has been relatively easy to do - despite last night being one of hardest evenings I have had in a very very long time. I would have liked to, but didn't feel the urge to. I am planning on having a few beers this evening though, due to a social engagement. Next week ill try & skip 2 days of drinking again and go from there.
Yes 100-150ml an evening, more or less 7 days a week adds up to many litres a month. Yes I am aware it could & would likely creep up. I am keeping an eye on that and have been ensuring my amounts don't creep up.
Weight, health, fitness, sleep, attitude & life is managed well & has had no ill effects with my drinking.
I would very much like a Liver Function test. I am a surveyor by trade so facts, figure & measurements are almost a perversion of mine and that would very much give me the ''OK'' to continue as I am, or would have me emptying the booze cupboard and going cold turkey until the numbers added up again. I would VERY much welcome any ideas on how I can request one.
Out of interest, do you have anyone that you can go into chapter and verse with as a way of support rather than having a drink. What ever the issues are, would having a clear head not be more important.I have not replied yet, as it is tricky knowing what to say, without going into chapter & verse and either making it sound like a sob story or justifying my drinking. My situation means on the whole I am very lucky, supported & loved...but a very testing 6 months personally & professionally has meant I have up'd my drinking from a previous couple of times a week to nightly. This period has yet to pass, hence me taking time to ponder this whilst I still can (to sound dramatic!)
I have not drank the last couple of nights, for the first time in several weeks which has been relatively easy to do - despite last night being one of hardest evenings I have had in a very very long time. I would have liked to, but didn't feel the urge to. I am planning on having a few beers this evening though, due to a social engagement. Next week ill try & skip 2 days of drinking again and go from there.
Yes 100-150ml an evening, more or less 7 days a week adds up to many litres a month. Yes I am aware it could & would likely creep up. I am keeping an eye on that and have been ensuring my amounts don't creep up.
Weight, health, fitness, sleep, attitude & life is managed well & has had no ill effects with my drinking.
I would very much like a Liver Function test. I am a surveyor by trade so facts, figure & measurements are almost a perversion of mine and that would very much give me the ''OK'' to continue as I am, or would have me emptying the booze cupboard and going cold turkey until the numbers added up again. I would VERY much welcome any ideas on how I can request one.
No point getting a Liver Function Test. You really haven’t been drinking enough for long enough for anything to show up.
I’ve been drinking every evening for the last 5 years (prob 35-40 units a week for the 15 years before that too) and my LFT was fine last year.
FWIW this thread has made me aim to drop a day a week as a start - Wednesdays. Tommorrow is the first
I’ve been drinking every evening for the last 5 years (prob 35-40 units a week for the 15 years before that too) and my LFT was fine last year.
FWIW this thread has made me aim to drop a day a week as a start - Wednesdays. Tommorrow is the first
Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff