Improving my running

[RobM77]

JonnyJustice said:

Do you guys do treadmill/indoor training or just brave the conditions in general?!

The only thing that stops me running is ice and snow, for fear of falling and injuring myself. Other than that I always run outdoors and was out today in the rain dodging puddles. I gym indoors though once a week, and once my next race is done I plan to adjust my programme for two gym sessions a week.

[Mothersruin]

I love running in bad conditions - as said, underfoot is the only real consideration - as long as that's not too bad, I'll run in anything. Prefer the cold/sleet/rain/snow to running in heat.

[MC Bodge]

I still go out in the snow - I will wear trail or fell shoes.

I don't use a treadmill. Going outside is part of it.

[RobM77]

One thing I would say about running in the rain is that I find it limits my pace sometimes. There's a stretch under some trees that I use for 400m intervals, and when it's rained I get wheelspin trying to run quickly and my pace is limited. I find this somewhat of a problem on most damp pavements, but thankfully I have somewhere to use near work that's exposed on a hill and dries quickly.

[Harpoon]

Love running in the snow - strap some Yaktrax onto my regular running shows and enjoy the crunch

https://www.yaktrax.co.uk/product/yaktrax-pro/

[Robmarriott]

Yep, running in -2.5 degree snowy weather was the highlight of my winter. Shorts on too!

[Abbott]

Hi all, I'm relatively new to running so enjoying picking up new advice tips etc.
I*m doing parkrun and totalling 5km 3 times a week wit the occasional 10k.
I friend has lent me a heart rate monitor and it is causing me more worry than I feel while running.

What is the general thought on HR monitors and how they should drive your pace?

[smn159]

Abbott said:

Hi all, I'm relatively new to running so enjoying picking up new advice tips etc.
I*m doing parkrun and totalling 5km 3 times a week wit the occasional 10k.
I friend has lent me a heart rate monitor and it is causing me more worry than I feel while running.

What is the general thought on HR monitors and how they should drive your pace?

IMO... they're useful for ensuring that you stick to your required workout intensity when you get into longer runs. there's a tendency to do every run at the same pace, which is generally too fast for the steady / recovery runs and too slow for the faster paced stuff to get the right benefits. Working out your long and med/long run paces and target heart rates means that you can run each at the right intensity.

[Abbott]

smn159 said:

Abbott said:

Hi all, I'm relatively new to running so enjoying picking up new advice tips etc.
I*m doing parkrun and totalling 5km 3 times a week wit the occasional 10k.
I friend has lent me a heart rate monitor and it is causing me more worry than I feel while running.

What is the general thought on HR monitors and how they should drive your pace?

IMO... they're useful for ensuring that you stick to your required workout intensity when you get into longer runs. there's a tendency to do every run at the same pace, which is generally too fast for the steady / recovery runs and too slow for the faster paced stuff to get the right benefits. Working out your long and med/long run paces and target heart rates means that you can run each at the right intensity.

Im currently running at the top end of 80 to 90% and then slipping into Bottom end of 90 to 100% as i get towards the end. No idea if that is "normal" or pushing it too hard. Breathing is ok and dont feel particularly stressed

[RobM77]

Abbott said:

Hi all, I'm relatively new to running so enjoying picking up new advice tips etc.
I*m doing parkrun and totalling 5km 3 times a week wit the occasional 10k.
I friend has lent me a heart rate monitor and it is causing me more worry than I feel while running.

What is the general thought on HR monitors and how they should drive your pace?

When training in running, most runners perform different types of run to work on different aspects of running ability. Heart rate can be used to dictate the pace of these runs so they train the intended facet of your running performance.

I recently had VO2 Max testing performed, and the results gave me target heart rates for different types of workout. For example, the HR associated with my ventilatory threshold was measured, a proxy for lactate threshold, which tempo runs are designed to boost by operating close to. I do a tempo run once a week, and I use heart rate as well as pace to guide me. I also now know in a race that exceeding this heart rate isn't a good idea for very long, as lactate will be building. That's just an example; I also know my HR for recovery runs, different types of long run and intervals.

[smn159]

Abbott said:

Im currently running at the top end of 80 to 90% and then slipping into Bottom end of 90 to 100% as i get towards the end. No idea if that is "normal" or pushing it too hard. Breathing is ok and dont feel particularly stressed

As Rob suggests above, you need to start by working out your max heart rate. There are a number of methods starting with 220-your age and getting more scientific.. if you're a masochist you can try running hard hill repeats a few times and seeing how high you can get it!

Once you have that there are various methods to work out target heart rate zones for different run types. I used the following when I was following a marathon training plan recently;

Recovery run - don't exceed 76% of max HR
General aerobic - 70-81% of max HR
Long / Med long run - 79-84% max HR
Marathon pace - 79-88% max HR
LT pace - 82-91%
VO2 Max - 93-95%

Obviously some overlap, but was useful to me in regulating my efforts, particularly on the recovery and gen aerobic runs.

[JimmyConwayNW]

Get out and get it done no matter what the weather. In cold weather you soon warm up 10 mins into a run and it feels rewarding getting in and then getting into the shower.

Running in snow especially off road / trail / forest / hills etc its completely silent. When it snows it soaks up a lot of noise and is an unbeatable feeling for me.

Its got to be really, really cold for me to not wear shorts.

[MC Bodge]

HR monitors can be handy for getting a feel for your efforts.

I would suggest that once you know what sort of pace/HR corresponds with particular effort, and you can run consistently at those levels, they are not *all that* useful for most non elite runners.

I tend to use 3 broad levels of effort.

Easy/slow aerobic.

Hard sustained. Ie somewhere between 10K half marathon pace.

HARD (short intervals between 30s and 3min)

I also do fartlek that mixes them up.

[PistonTim]

RobM77 said:

One thing I would say about running in the rain is that I find it limits my pace sometimes. There's a stretch under some trees that I use for 400m intervals, and when it's rained I get wheelspin trying to run quickly and my pace is limited. I find this somewhat of a problem on most damp pavements, but thankfully I have somewhere to use near work that's exposed on a hill and dries quickly.

Not every run needs to be flat out, depends what sort of pace youre trying to hit though!

And in answer to the above, rarely treadmills unless no other option available at all because the effort and biomechanics are very different, and in the rain or snow regardless, bodyglide for chafing and I dont bother adding layers because I get too hot.

Edited by PistonTim on Wednesday 25th September 14:24

[RobM77]

PistonTim said:

RobM77 said:

One thing I would say about running in the rain is that I find it limits my pace sometimes. There's a stretch under some trees that I use for 400m intervals, and when it's rained I get wheelspin trying to run quickly and my pace is limited. I find this somewhat of a problem on most damp pavements, but thankfully I have somewhere to use near work that's exposed on a hill and dries quickly.

Not every run needs to be flat out, depends what sort of pace youre trying to hit though!

And in answer to the above, rarely treadmills unless no other option available at all, and in the rain or snow regardless, bodyglide for chafing and I dont bother adding layers because I get too hot.

As I said above, I find this problem when doing intervals. I also haven't said I do intervals on every run - I do them once a week. I also never said I was flat out; I train for distance running, so my intervals sessions are sets of 5-10 reps at a pace calculated based on effort and my current race pace.

In answer to your question on pace, for intervals I'm currently between about 2min50s/km (for 400m intervals, my shortest) and 3min30s/km (for 1200m intervals, my longest). I tend to start getting traction problems down below about 3min20s/km. I don't know if it's a gait issue (gait obviously changes a bit as you go faster) or just a pace one. Obviously running shoes are going to play a part here too. I'm assuming that traction is a factor in running, otherwise track runners wouldn't wear spikes.

[PistonTim]

RobM77 said:

As I said above, I find this problem when doing intervals. I also haven't said I do intervals on every run - I do them once a week. I also never said I was flat out; I train for distance running, so my intervals sessions are sets of 5-10 reps at a pace calculated based on effort and my current race pace.

In answer to your question on pace, for intervals I'm currently between about 2min50s/km (for 400m intervals, my shortest) and 3min30s/km (for 1200m intervals, my longest). I tend to start getting traction problems down below about 3min20s/km. I don't know if it's a gait issue (gait obviously changes a bit as you go faster) or just a pace one. Obviously running shoes are going to play a part here too. I'm assuming that traction is a factor in running, otherwise track runners wouldn't wear spikes.

I imagine you lean forward more and reduce your contact surface quite significantly at that pace, so yes could well be limiting. I've never explored track sessions myself, although I often see people posting their fastest times on them and of course the majority of WR too, even up to 100 mile are set on track.

I prefer hills and trails usually!

[RobM77]

PistonTim said:

RobM77 said:

As I said above, I find this problem when doing intervals. I also haven't said I do intervals on every run - I do them once a week. I also never said I was flat out; I train for distance running, so my intervals sessions are sets of 5-10 reps at a pace calculated based on effort and my current race pace.

In answer to your question on pace, for intervals I'm currently between about 2min50s/km (for 400m intervals, my shortest) and 3min30s/km (for 1200m intervals, my longest). I tend to start getting traction problems down below about 3min20s/km. I don't know if it's a gait issue (gait obviously changes a bit as you go faster) or just a pace one. Obviously running shoes are going to play a part here too. I'm assuming that traction is a factor in running, otherwise track runners wouldn't wear spikes.

I imagine you lean forward more and reduce your contact surface quite significantly at that pace, so yes could well be limiting. I've never explored track sessions myself, although I often see people posting their fastest times on them and of course the majority of WR too, even up to 100 mile are set on track.

I prefer hills and trails usually!

For improving speed, intervals and tempo sessions are fairly standard. I train for 5k and 10k races, so do intervals and tempo sessions each week, with my other running being at an easy pace. That trio of intervals, tempo and easy long runs are the staple for most road runners from 5k up to marathon distance.

I'd love to have a track at my disposal, but sadly I don't so I've just memorised interval distances at my favourite spots. For tempo (2 x 2km, 1 x 4km, 2 x 3km, 1 x 6km etc) I just use my watch. As I explained, it gets quite hard to run fast under trees when it's rained in the town where I work, but thankfully there's a wide tarmac pathway around a hilltop housing estate about 2km away from my work, so I go there for both intervals and tempo runs; the job out there is perfect to warm up too. Being on a hill it gets pretty windy, but the advantage of that is that it dries the surface quickly, plus the width of the path means you never inconvenience pedestrians, as you might on a standard pavement.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 25th September 15:07

[Crasher242]

JonnyJustice said:

Do you guys do treadmill/indoor training or just brave the conditions in general?!

I am starting to enjoy running in the poor weather! Running in the rain is (for me) a great thing, as it keeps me cool.
However, i do still use the treadmill now and then - i find interval sessions far easier to manage on a treadmill. I dont run with a club (i am very much a lone runner most of the time) so find the fact that i can program in a good 40-50 minute interval session into my treadmill a good thing (its an iFit compatible unit).

That said - getting out all weather is splendid

[Robmarriott]

So I failed.

My aim was 10k in an hour before the end of September and I just couldn't do it, the best I managed was 1:04.something.

I've felt crap about it because all the other targets I set myself (weight loss, no alcohol etc) I managed to achieve.

Because of that, I've done nothing for about a week, I've just convinced myself that I can't do it so there's no point trying and just not bothered at all...

Having given it some thought though, I'm going to get back out tonight. I CAN do it, the arbitrary goal of September has gone but getting myself to a point where I can run 10k in under an hour is still a worthwhile target to get to!

I'm not going to let the negative part of my brain beat me!

[Fetchez la vache]

Robmarriott said:

So I failed.

I've felt crap about it because all the other targets I set myself (weight loss, no alcohol etc) I managed to achieve.

Since you have met your other aims - including weight loss I'd say that was a big win, and far fro failure.
10k in "1:04.something" isn't a long way off target so keep at it, plus many people would dream at a "1:04.something" 10k.
Whatever you do don't just say "fk it" and give up...

Less of the negative waves Moriarty...