Anyone on TRT?

[Tiggsy]

Halb said:

Tiggsy said:

Going private, how simple (and useful) is it to get on T with results on the border line? And is there a long term issue with doing it for (say) 10 years and then coming off.......lets say I go broke in 10 years and can't fund it....am I now broke and shrinking!!!!!?????

Good question! I'd be curious on that!

ALso, low carb diets may affect your T, Tiggsy.

I wondered that, it was higher before Keto....I've ordered another test now I am on higher (though not high) carb diet.

Part of the problem is my middle son is 15 and 6ft7 and chewing through 4k calories a day! While he is still skinny he is lean as fk and starting to pack on size - in 2 years he will be a monster. Meanwhile I'm on the downhill slope! At this rate he'll fill out my tight tshirts he steals (they still hang off him right now) and I'll cry

[Tiggsy]

272BHP said:

Wait 4 weeks and test again. This time pay for it yourself and get a full profile. If you are still around the same level then go private and have a consultation. You should be a prime candidate if you are around 10nmol - confirmed by a repeat test of course.

If you are a bit short of cash then I doubt the NHS will help if you approach them direct. A good private consultant should be able to issue you with a letter of recommendation that might prompt the NHS to offer a trial.

But from what people have said - going private offers the better results?

[272BHP]

Tiggsy said:

But from what people have said - going private offers the better results?

Of course, they can offer treatment tailored to you, you just have to pay for it. I will have to ask again but I am sure that the figure mentioned was in the 100 a month range which seems to align with what four litre mentioned above. I know 8 friends on TRT, 4 started with the NHS, only one of them is still with them. It does seem a big commitment though and most of them seem to be forever tweaking their protocols - funnily enough, they all seem to enjoy that part of it.

It can make a massive difference though, one guy was jobless and nearly suicidal, now on a 6 figure salary and has turned every aspect of his life around in a little over 2 years.

[Tiggsy]

272BHP said:

Tiggsy said:

But from what people have said - going private offers the better results?

Of course, they can offer treatment tailored to you, you just have to pay for it. I will have to ask again but I am sure that the figure mentioned was in the 100 a month range which seems to align with what four litre mentioned above. I know 8 friends on TRT, 4 started with the NHS, only one of them is still with them. It does seem a big commitment though and most of them seem to be forever tweaking their protocols - funnily enough, they all seem to enjoy that part of it.

It can make a massive difference though, one guy was jobless and nearly suicidal, now on a 6 figure salary and has turned every aspect of his life around in a little over 2 years.

£100 a month is a fraction of what I drop on whey and collagen and creatine and god knows what else to try and fight being 45.....I'd happily pay for a "proper" boost!

[Halb]

Tiggsy said:

£100 a month is a fraction of what I drop on whey and collagen and creatine and god knows what else to try and fight being 45.....I'd happily pay for a "proper" boost!

I'd keep the collagen. I get it off AMazon, a natural liquid form from Oz, very tasty.
You could also get a starchy tuber like a sweet potato and still remain in ketosis, if you time it right. Take a look at the vids I put in the training diet thread.

[gregs656]

Halb said:

I'd keep the collagen. I get it off AMazon, a natural liquid form from Oz, very tasty.

Had no idea Collagen supplements was a thing. Looks good I am going to give it a go.

[Halb]

gregs656 said:

Had no idea Collagen supplements was a thing. Looks good I am going to give it a go.

Not sure, when I first started reading/watching about it. Every little helps. It's in pork scratchings, but not everyone likes them

I get this one, the original one is a lil....beefy, I prefer the turmeric one, a nice alternative hot beverage for me.
https://twitter.com/bestofthebone
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B076B5X58R

[xx99xx]

Tiggsy said:

£100 a month is a fraction of what I drop on whey and collagen and creatine and god knows what else to try and fight being 45.....I'd happily pay for a "proper" boost!

I think you're experiencing natural ageing. As tough as it is to accept, it happens to everyone. Unfortunately TRT doesn't give a person a boost if they already have adequate T levels, even borderline levels. (Adequate to one person may be different to another as levels of other hormones determine bioavailable T). TRT drags people from low levels to something normal, usually between 12-18 nmols. Adding exogenous T just shuts down your natural production (as you probably already know) so your only solution (for the fitness gains you're looking for) is to run a bodybuilder style cycle of roids. Which personally I wouldn't recommend as you'll just set yourself up for hormone issues in the future.

[Halb]

Or go the whole hog on stem cells.

I'd watch David SInclair on Joe Rogan, see what he has to say on NMN and metaformin.

[272BHP]

I have a few issues with TRT in that while I would say it is a probably a no-brainer to give it a trial for someone below the 10nmol Total T / .2 nmol Free T level, there is a grey area where I am unsure if it is worth the jump - men who sit at about 12-13 nmol for example.

There are also unscrupulous players in this market who will pretty much give you what you want regardless of whether it is potentially damaging to your health. The NHS try to aim for a 15nmol/L trough level which is arguably too low, on the other hand a couple of the private players appear quite happy for some of their patients to be sitting at about 40nmol/L day in day out - most will not be able to handle that long term without issues arising.

Coincidentally enough the 40nmol/L level is also about the point where most men will start seeing undoubted benefits in terms of muscularity if they are regular gym goers - but maybe that is just me being cynical.

Also, a 30yr old could trial it for 6 months, see if it works for them and then just stop with no long term impact. A 50yr old is very much in a stick or twist situation, It is possible that they will never again quite reach their pre-treatment level if they stop.

[popeyewhite]

272BHP said:

Coincidentally enough the 40nmol/L level is also about the point where most men will start seeing undoubted benefits in terms of muscularity if they are regular gym goers - but maybe that is just me being cynical.

For muscle hypertrophy you'd really need a minimum of 2-300 mg PW of level blood serum test. What amount PW does 40nmol/L translate to?

[272BHP]

popeyewhite said:

For muscle hypertrophy you'd really need a minimum of 2-300 mg PW of level blood serum test. What amount PW does 40nmol/L translate to?

Certainly none of the people I know are on as much as that. 100-150mg or less I think, although it tends to change every time I ask!. They are on this year in year out though.

And we are talking very subtle gains here, noticeable to them but not so much for others, none of my friends have body builder physiques that's for sure.

[popeyewhite]

272BHP said:

Certainly none of the people I know are on as much as that. 100-150mg or less I think, although it tends to change every time I ask!. They are on this year in year out though.

And we are talking very subtle gains here, noticeable to them but not so much for others, none of my friends have body builder physiques that's for sure.

Yeah I guess you don't have to develop like Arnie to notice the difference. I think you're right that over time it would definitely be felt, even at considerably lower doses.

[gregs656]

Halb said:

Not sure, when I first started reading/watching about it. Every little helps. It's in pork scratchings, but not everyone likes them

I get this one, the original one is a lil....beefy, I prefer the turmeric one, a nice alternative hot beverage for me.
https://twitter.com/bestofthebone
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B076B5X58R

I’ve got some powder from amazon I am hoping I can chuck it in the protein powder and be done with it.

Looks like it has measurable effectiveness in a range of areas though so worth a punt.

[Tiggsy]

Without getting too side tracked from TRT-the collagen supplementation I use is both the bone broth linked above and a chocolate brownie flavoured collagen derived from multiple sources. I add to some whey and oats for my carbohydrate source in the evening before bed. Very yummy. And the broth is good when fasting. I’m currently on my once a month fast. Not eaten since 5pm Sunday but will do so tomorrow after training around 2 pm. A few cups of broth a day means I have zero hunger.

Also, regarding TRT..... it’s not just gym related improvements I am seeking. In the last few years I have had enough other symptoms of (what I thought may have been mild depression) that, when added to the muscle/fat stuff adds up to “hmmmm, might want to check T levels” by any online guide to TRT.

Edited by Tiggsy on Wednesday 4th September 00:59

[burritoNinja]

Private TRT is expensive. I was about to go private but got my NHS appointment just before. I was looking at £130 per month. If after maybe two years I feel NHS is missing things then yes I may go private.

[lord trumpton]

So just to clarify...

When I do go for the doctor appointment for the prescription it 'Testogel' the one to request?

[Tiggsy]

I'm having a full TRT blood test done on Friday - While I'm not looking to cheat the test and score lower than I should....is there anything that I should avoid (or do) to not have it go the other way and show better than reality?

My diet is low carb (though not keto) and train in some form daily (although Saturday I have a 3 hr obstacle race so will up carbs Thur & Fri to normalish human levels!)

Or am I overthinking and just go get it tested?

[xx99xx]

lord trumpton said:

So just to clarify...

When I do go for the doctor appointment for the prescription it 'Testogel' the one to request?

Between Testim and Testogel, I'd always prefer Testogel. Testim is thicker so takes longer to dry and smells stronger. Testogel dries within a minute and doesn't smell. Can't say I noticed a difference in how well they worked. Testogel is also in a pump bottle whereas Testim was in 30 x one a day tubes (at least it was when I had it last year).

[Scabutz]

Testogel used to be in 1 a day sachets. Now its a bottle with dose pump. I prefer the pump bottle.