Anyone on TRT?

[Mr Pointy]

xx99xx said:

Tiggsy said:

Got my blood work back - over 40 tests done but I think the relevant ones are:

Test: 13.4
Free Test: 0.201
SHBG 48.7

Will call the clinic that advised to get tested prior to a consult and see what they say.....I'm hoping they suggest a consult will be worth it?

SHBG is on the high side. That may be part of your problem making you feel like crap. What little testosterone you have will be getting bound by all the SHBG making it unavailable for your body to use for the beneficial effects.

Some good info on SHBG here: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2011/may2011_Do-You...

Where do you get your nominal level information from? Medicheck give a normal SHBG range from 20.6 to 76.7 which puts 48.7 bang in the middle of the normal range.

Similarly they quote a Test range from 6.68 to 25.7 which puts 13.4 just slightly below the mid range of 16.2.

Or are the Medicheck ranges incorrect?

[272BHP]

I would say an average SHBG is about 35. 48 is high but not anything to be particularly worried about. It tends to move up as we get older.

But most guys find SHBG starts to move down again once they start TRT

[xx99xx]

Blood reference ranges vary from lab to lab. So what's 'normal' at one may not be normal at another an hour down the road. Regardless of ranges though, to maximise bioavailable testosterone you need low levels of SHBG and Albumin.

Your SHBG is normal but if your aim is to feel more of the benefits testosterone gives then lowering SHBG will help with that. If you didn't have any testosterone complaints then I'd say don't worry about SHBG.

The alternative to lowering SHBG (to increase bioavailable testosterone) is basically TRT but as TRT is generally for life, personally I'd try everything else first and fall back to TRT as a last resort.

[didelydoo]

Supplement with Boron to increase free test/Decrease SHBG, it's quite well documented now, and a sensible first step before TRT.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC47128...

[Tiggsy]

The medichecks range they gave for normal was 18.3 - 54.1

Boron sounds interesting - But I assume (accepting the life long commitment) that TRT is going to yeild much greater changes?

[didelydoo]

Tiggsy said:

Boron sounds interesting - But I assume (accepting the life long commitment) that TRT is going to yeild much greater changes?

Yes indeed. But if simple boron supplementation can get you feeling great, it's definitely the easier route.

[Tiggsy]

didelydoo said:

Tiggsy said:

Boron sounds interesting - But I assume (accepting the life long commitment) that TRT is going to yeild much greater changes?

Yes indeed. But if simple boron supplementation can get you feeling great, it's definitely the easier route.

I suppose it depends on the difference to pre- supplement. Half the issue is how I "feel" - lack of focus, mood swings - almsot like a mild depression (in fact, pretty much just like that)

The other half is my training - I am killing myself in the gym to achive VERY slow gains in whatever I target (fat loss, muscle retention (I've given up on muscle gains) It's the first year I've ever felt the results where so wide of the mark given the training. It's tricky because I'm still (compared to my non-training 45 year old mates) in great shape and physically way ahead of the average guy my age......but I know I am FAR from optimal for ME.

Boron ordered though!

[budgie smuggler]

Tiggsy said:

I suppose it depends on the difference to pre- supplement. Half the issue is how I "feel" - lack of focus, mood swings - almsot like a mild depression (in fact, pretty much just like that)

The other half is my training - I am killing myself in the gym to achive VERY slow gains in whatever I target (fat loss, muscle retention (I've given up on muscle gains) It's the first year I've ever felt the results where so wide of the mark given the training. It's tricky because I'm still (compared to my non-training 45 year old mates) in great shape and physically way ahead of the average guy my age......but I know I am FAR from optimal for ME.

Boron ordered though!

That's exactly where I'm at too, I could have written it almost word for word.

Could I please have a link to what you've ordered?

[Tiggsy]

I just went for the "amazon suggested" one - there are loads at a similar price, all in 3mg tablets. All the tests done that show good results are using higher doses than that and the "safe" limit is way higher. I think I'm going to take 2/3 per day and see how I go.

[toddler]

Tiggsy said:

Half the issue is how I "feel" - lack of focus, mood swings - almsot like a mild depression (in fact, pretty much just like that)

I've been on TRT since 2007 when I lost my remaining bk. I've had lack of focus, mood swings, brain fog, lethargy, insomnia etc. for pretty much all that time, while my T level was anywhere from zero to 100+. High, low, made no difference to how I felt. All came to a head last year when I had a melt down and ended up on anti-depressants. Within a few weeks I felt almost like my old self. I'm sleeping seven hours a night, my head is clear, my mood is more stable and I have more energy. Even when I had to stop TRT for two months because my triglycerides were through the roof and my blood was very thick, apart from the hot flushes, I felt great even though my T level dropped to zero.

Edited by toddler on Tuesday 10th September 11:38

[Tiggsy]

toddler said:

I've been on TRT since 2007 when I lost my remaining bk. I've had lack of focus, mood swings, brain fog, lethargy, insomnia etc. for pretty much all that time, while my T level was anywhere from zero to 100+. High, low, made no difference to how I felt. All came to a head last year when I had a melt down and ended up on anti-depressants. Within a few weeks I felt almost like my old self. I'm sleeping seven hours a night, my head is clear, my mood is more stable and I have more energy. Even when I had to stop TRT for two months because my triglycerides were through the roof and my blood was very thick, apart from the hot flushes, I felt great even though my T level dropped to zero.

Edited by toddler on Tuesday 10th September 11:38

Yep - If my gym work was yeilding normal results I'd probably consider depression as a primary cause......but the mind stuff + gym + sex drive means I thought I'd start with TRT.

Now got an appointment for a couple of weeks time - Doc saw the full blood work up and said a consult was 100% worth it. We shall see.

[burritoNinja]

There is a great TRT site called AndroidUK or something like that. Biggest issue with trying to find legit experiences is always met with bodybuilding sites who are simply anabolic drug users and often provide wrong information like 300mg per week being TRT.

[toddler]

burritoNinja said:

There is a great TRT site called AndroidUK or something like that. Biggest issue with trying to find legit experiences is always met with bodybuilding sites who are simply anabolic drug users and often provide wrong information like 300mg per week being TRT.

It's the Testosterone Deficiency Center at http://www.androids.org.uk/forum/index.php

Nick O'Hara Smith who set up TDC sadly passed away last year. He helped me personally, and hundreds of other Testicular Cancer patients. The forum is quite good with several knowledgeable posters.

[budgie smuggler]

toddler said:

It's the Testosterone Deficiency Center at http://www.androids.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1...

Nick O'Hara Smith who set up TDC sadly passed away last year. He helped me personally, and hundreds of other Testicular Cancer patients. The forum is quite good with several knowledgeable posters.

That's a good link, thanks.

Interestingly for me the first topic I hit was this:

http://www.androids.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1...

Which led me to this which looks very useful.

http://www.bssm.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/...

[Halb]

Tiggsy said:

Without getting too side tracked from TRT-the collagen supplementation I use is both the bone broth linked above and a chocolate brownie flavoured collagen derived from multiple sources.

Have you a link for the brownie one, please?

[Tiggsy]

Halb said:

Tiggsy said:

Without getting too side tracked from TRT-the collagen supplementation I use is both the bone broth linked above and a chocolate brownie flavoured collagen derived from multiple sources.

Have you a link for the brownie one, please?

I do a bone broth in the am and mix this into some oats for supper (as part of my carbs at night protocol)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Multi-Collagen-Elite-Powd...

Think Amazon is out of brownie flaour?

[Halb]

Tiggsy said:

I do a bone broth in the am and mix this into some oats for supper (as part of my carbs at night protocol)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Multi-Collagen-Elite-Powd...

Think Amazon is out of brownie flaour?

Ta. It says what types it is too (I II III V X), and it's from multiple sources, good stuff!

[lord trumpton]

So just to update...

I received my tostran yesterday and started first application today. 6 pumps >60mg and applied to inside of each thigh.

To be honest I'm pleasantly surprised with ease of application and drying time contrary to feedback from others in the thread.

I rubbed it in spending about 30 seconds doing so and it was gone, dry and no unpleasant odour other than a sort of 'clinical' fresh smell.

Maybe the product has been improved since?

Anyway I'll update in a few weeks unless anything is noticeable beforehand.

[Mr Pointy]

toddler said:

It's the Testosterone Deficiency Center at http://www.androids.org.uk/forum/index.php

Nick O'Hara Smith who set up TDC sadly passed away last year. He helped me personally, and hundreds of other Testicular Cancer patients. The forum is quite good with several knowledgeable posters.

Anyone know how to register on this forum? I've tried & got no response.

[lord trumpton]

Just a few observations after 3 applications

My symptoms are improving already! Wether it's placebo fking with me i don't know though...

I've slept great since 9 hours a night (as opposed to a collective 3 or four hours prior)

I'm an avid (ageing) boxer and train 3 times a week at the club - Last two times at the end I could have gone through the conditioning again - in the past I was stuck to the floor with exhaustion.

Overall I feel happier, less tired and have a lot more go about me - I'm starting to feel like the old me again.

Re libido - no great changes like above but my wife is starting to look a bit foxy again So hopefully I'll be back to form there soon

Again the Tostran is a cinch to use and its on and i'm dressed in less than 3 mins so much be a new formulation from what others have tried.