Mental Health Issues

[PistonTim]

Hoofy said:

Could train to be a mental health first aider. https://mhfaengland.org/

It's about learning to identify if someone is having issues and then directing them to the seek help as appropriate.

As mentioned above, helping them takes training either as a psychologist, therapist or counsellor. Even working as a Samaritan takes a bucket load of training.

The key to being a good mate with a friendly ear is to have a non-judgemental attitude but to not provide advice beyond "it might be an idea to seek professional help".

StevieBee said:

I would avoid being sucked into the 'Life Coach' thing. In my view and experience, Life Coaches cause more harm than good and most of them are in more need of life coaching than their clients. Life Coaching is perhaps useful for people looking to boost their career or address minor anxiety issues but the problem is that many life coaches think they are psychologists. They are not - not even close to being one.

A life coach should not be trying to help anyone with anxiety or other mental health issue. That is not their training.

We use MHFA England for training through work and they are very good!

[coldel]

Hoofy said:

Anyone can call themselves a life coach. Many have proper training, many do not. You see a lot of people calling themselves life coaches on Instagram who are barely out of school and just like the sound of their own voice. Talking of directive and non-directive, life coaches are supposed to be non-directive. If you're directive, you're not a coach but are either a mentor, an advisor, a trainer or an idiot who should quit with the duckface photos.

Being able to quote from The Matrix 3 does not make you woke.

Life Coaching also relies on the person using them to be totally honest. If the person is misleading the coach, then the coach may end up asking questions inappropriate to what is required. But thats not their fault. A life coach is a valuable asset to have for things such as career planning and the like, but the person hiring them needs to be honest with them and themselves as to what they are expecting from it.

[Hoofy]

coldel said:

Hoofy said:

Anyone can call themselves a life coach. Many have proper training, many do not. You see a lot of people calling themselves life coaches on Instagram who are barely out of school and just like the sound of their own voice. Talking of directive and non-directive, life coaches are supposed to be non-directive. If you're directive, you're not a coach but are either a mentor, an advisor, a trainer or an idiot who should quit with the duckface photos.

Being able to quote from The Matrix 3 does not make you woke.

Life Coaching also relies on the person using them to be totally honest. If the person is misleading the coach, then the coach may end up asking questions inappropriate to what is required. But thats not their fault. A life coach is a valuable asset to have for things such as career planning and the like, but the person hiring them needs to be honest with them and themselves as to what they are expecting from it.

I think that's taken as read. That said, if the life coach is not getting honesty from the client then there's probably something subconscious that is being done eg creating an environment that is not conducive to honesty and openness eg by being judgemental or close-minded.

[Boozy]

bucksmanuk said:

I know this seems like being a pedant, but the words chosen tend to indicate the mistake most people make when helping someone in need.
“To simply TALK to them” is most people’s response and that’s exactly what they do. The person who’s struggling with life and requires some help wants/needs someone to shut up for once and actually LISTEN to them - as alluded to above.

We all know people for whom the former is extremely easy, but the latter is almost impossible..

To be clear when I say talk I mean have a conversation which means listening.

[popeyewhite]

Hoofy said:

coldel said:

Hoofy said:

Anyone can call themselves a life coach. Many have proper training, many do not. You see a lot of people calling themselves life coaches on Instagram who are barely out of school and just like the sound of their own voice. Talking of directive and non-directive, life coaches are supposed to be non-directive. If you're directive, you're not a coach but are either a mentor, an advisor, a trainer or an idiot who should quit with the duckface photos.

Being able to quote from The Matrix 3 does not make you woke.

Life Coaching also relies on the person using them to be totally honest. If the person is misleading the coach, then the coach may end up asking questions inappropriate to what is required. But thats not their fault. A life coach is a valuable asset to have for things such as career planning and the like, but the person hiring them needs to be honest with them and themselves as to what they are expecting from it.

I think that's taken as read. That said, if the life coach is not getting honesty from the client then there's probably something subconscious that is being done eg creating an environment that is not conducive to honesty and openness eg by being judgemental or close-minded.

Does a life coach particularly need honesty? I mean obviously outright lying would be foolish from the client's perspective as they wouldn't get the service they're paid for, but surely a life coach's job is largely motivational? I appreciate client expectations need to be carefully discussed at the start of the service but as long as therapeutic effect takes place ie it's good to talk, then being non-judgemental doesn't really enter into this branch of 'listening' as it's not psychotherapy/counselling in the strictest sense. The client's issue is one of performance surely, not a troubling mental/relational/emotional issue?

[coldel]

popeyewhite said:

Does a life coach particularly need honesty? I mean obviously outright lying would be foolish from the client's perspective as they wouldn't get the service they're paid for, but surely a life coach's job is largely motivational? I appreciate client expectations need to be carefully discussed at the start of the service but as long as therapeutic effect takes place ie it's good to talk, then being non-judgemental doesn't really enter into this branch of 'listening' as it's not psychotherapy/counselling in the strictest sense. The client's issue is one of performance surely, not a troubling mental/relational/emotional issue?

They do need honesty otherwise their line of questioning will go off on a different track than it otherwise should have. A life coach doesn't directly motivate i.e. shout you can do it! then its job done, they go through a process of allowing the client to speak out loud the challenge, ask questions of clients to help them unravel the challenge they have at hand, ask questions that challenge what they have done to date, allow the client to decide their own next steps etc. They absolutely have to be non-judgemental and be objective, life coaches can be friendly in sessions but they are not there just to be a 'good to talk' person or a replacement for a chat with your mate.

Mostly people have worked with life coaches around more functional stuff but they can also be used for relationships and the like, life coaching is a catch all word used too freely and often misunderstood but there are such things as relationship coaches etc. It is a shame life coaching is so misunderstood really, worth a read up as so many successful people use them - CEOs/MDs often use them as life at the top is often quite isolating for example.

[Hoofy]

What Coldel said.

As a career coach mentor to undergrads and recent grads, if they don't tell me enough about what's going on, I can't ask the right questions to help them explore the issue at hand and help them to look at solutions.

Coaching isn't just about telling the client, "You're a tiger, go get 'em! Grr!" (although sometimes it's good to encourage them ).

[popeyewhite]

coldel said:

They do need honesty otherwise their line of questioning will go off on a different track than it otherwise should have.

You've taken me too literally, I didn't mean if the client was an inveterate liar, just not totally honest about their feeliongs. I should have clarified, sorry.

coldel said:

A life coach doesn't directly motivate i.e. shout you can do it! then its job done, they go through a process of allowing the client to speak out loud the challenge, ask questions of clients to help them unravel the challenge they have at hand, ask questions that challenge what they have done to date, allow the client to decide their own next steps etc
They absolutely have to be non-judgemental

Why? I'm not talking being blatantly misogynist or stereotying to some degree... but unless you're entering the client's world why would you need to be non-judgemental if you can keep your bias to yourself? One can quite easily be judgemental and objective at the same time, it's a reflection of professionalism and service offered.

coldel said:

and be objective, life coaches can be friendly in sessions but they are not there just to be a 'good to talk' person or a replacement for a chat with your mate.

Apologies again, 'therapeutic effect' or as I reduced it to - "good to talk" is a known concept in therapy whereby it doesn't really matter what background the therapist has, there is the known and measured effect of simply being able to unburden yourself to a person you view as a professional listener.

[Hoofy]

popeyewhite said:

Apologies again, 'therapeutic effect' or as I reduced it to - "good to talk" is a known concept in therapy whereby it doesn't really matter what background the therapist has, there is the known and measured effect of simply being able to unburden yourself to a person you view as a professional listener.

Yes, it can, for many. But for many others it can just mean they relive the problem and the stress/anxiety/etc builds up again. I've witnessed this.

[popeyewhite]

Hoofy said:

popeyewhite said:

Apologies again, 'therapeutic effect' or as I reduced it to - "good to talk" is a known concept in therapy whereby it doesn't really matter what background the therapist has, there is the known and measured effect of simply being able to unburden yourself to a person you view as a professional listener.

Yes, it can, for many. But for many others it can just mean they relive the problem and the stress/anxiety/etc builds up again. I've witnessed this.

I imagine you have. Isn't it the point that a client relives the issue to some degree in order to describe what bothers them to the listener?

[Sump]

Hoofy said:

popeyewhite said:

Apologies again, 'therapeutic effect' or as I reduced it to - "good to talk" is a known concept in therapy whereby it doesn't really matter what background the therapist has, there is the known and measured effect of simply being able to unburden yourself to a person you view as a professional listener.

Yes, it can, for many. But for many others it can just mean they relive the problem and the stress/anxiety/etc builds up again. I've witnessed this.

I've always considered permanently checking out being the most reasonable and logical solution. There is a limit on how much torture your brain can take and having the opportunity to be able to have relief of that pain just seems totally logical to me.

It's very easy for your brain to get stuck into this rut where certain things just keep repeating over and over again, day in day out. Befor you know it, 3 years have gone by and the same thing is just going over and over and there is a clear no way out.

[SVS]

Hoofy said:

Could train to be a mental health first aider. https://mhfaengland.org/

It's about learning to identify if someone is having issues and then directing them to the seek help as appropriate.

^ this is great advice. It’s typically a 2-day course, but there are 1-day intro courses too.

[Hoofy]

popeyewhite said:

Hoofy said:

popeyewhite said:

Apologies again, 'therapeutic effect' or as I reduced it to - "good to talk" is a known concept in therapy whereby it doesn't really matter what background the therapist has, there is the known and measured effect of simply being able to unburden yourself to a person you view as a professional listener.

Yes, it can, for many. But for many others it can just mean they relive the problem and the stress/anxiety/etc builds up again. I've witnessed this.

I imagine you have. Isn't it the point that a client relives the issue to some degree in order to describe what bothers them to the listener?

As I suggested, it may or may not help if you're just talking to an untrained person.

[Hoofy]

Sump said:

Hoofy said:

popeyewhite said:

Apologies again, 'therapeutic effect' or as I reduced it to - "good to talk" is a known concept in therapy whereby it doesn't really matter what background the therapist has, there is the known and measured effect of simply being able to unburden yourself to a person you view as a professional listener.

Yes, it can, for many. But for many others it can just mean they relive the problem and the stress/anxiety/etc builds up again. I've witnessed this.

I've always considered permanently checking out being the most reasonable and logical solution. There is a limit on how much torture your brain can take and having the opportunity to be able to have relief of that pain just seems totally logical to me.

It's very easy for your brain to get stuck into this rut where certain things just keep repeating over and over again, day in day out. Befor you know it, 3 years have gone by and the same thing is just going over and over and there is a clear no way out.

Just to clarify, this was about just talking to an untrained person.

[popeyewhite]

Hoofy said:

As I suggested, it may or may not help if you're just talking to an untrained person.

Ah okay, crossed-wires a bit there. I'd assumed some training, but was interested to hear what a life coach actually does!

[Hoofy]

popeyewhite said:

Hoofy said:

As I suggested, it may or may not help if you're just talking to an untrained person.

Ah okay, crossed-wires a bit there. I'd assumed some training, but was interested to hear what a life coach actually does!

I thought we were talking about the "talking to a mate" scenario. I think there are a few sub-threads on this post.

Perhaps a few informal definitions are needed.

A pure life coach would be non-directive, asking questions, with the concept of the answer being inside the client already.

A mentor gives advice based on life/business/expert experience.

A therapist would use specific techniques to solve a problem.

A counsellor uses talking to help a client work through the issue.

An advisor tells you what's what.

A trainer tells you how to do it.

A football coach just confuses these definitions.

All of these use a non-judgemental approach for openness apart from the latter who will probably shout at you and call you a dhead when you fk up and tell your team mates to whip your arse with a towel in the shower.

[Hoofy]

Perhaps a few tips for non-judgemental listening for the layperson, as there may be interested readers who aren't participating.

-listen to understand not to reply
-try not to form an answer until the person has finished
-try not to interrupt
-look and sound interested (don't just stare at them - nod or shake your head where appropriate etc)
-ask open-ended questions (why might that have happened? how did you feel after he did that?)
-ask questions to clarify things if you're not sure
-you don't have to provide solutions (us blokes love to do that, but sometimes a person just wants to be heard and understood)
-depending on the seriousness, suggest seeking professional help

[geek84]

Thank very much indeed for your responses.

[burritoNinja]

coldel said:

And I would argue that your example is probably more of an extreme case of a practioner taking a wrong course of action, just like any field of expertise be it life coaching or repairing cars and making a bad diagnoses and choice.

My wife is a life coach and one of my life long friends is a psychologist and what they do in their jobs couldn't be any more different, I have spoken to my friend about work challenges, stresses etc and she just couldn't understand. Psychologists are a whole different ball game, and in fact I find do struggle with listening to problems which are outside their own expertise (my friend is a criminal psychologist) as they feel its their obligation to find answers - a life coach should never give answers, and a good pointer for a bad life coach is when they start doing this.

I agree with you if someone is suicidal there are very clear routes to help but that doesn't mean a life coach is a poor version of a psychologist, they are often very talented people who have huge experience working with people, who have moved into life coaching. Its just that it serves a different purpose, solving different challenges that people have.

Anyway, I don't mean to digress as this is a serious thread.

My Mother was a psychiatrist and they have a hard job. She was off with stress once for six months due to a major case she was involved in. She basically went into situations to diagnose people with mental illness and worked via mental health social services.