Fitness gurus on the juice...
Discussion
Four Litre said:
egor110 said:
If you need glasses it's because your going to be a danger to the public without them .
Nobody's going to smash there car up because they have low testosterone , unlike being short sighted .
I can tell you for certain they will when you get low enough. I could barely function and eventually passed out at work. Was horizontal for a number of weeks until we worked out through brain scans what was wrong with me. I would say in my case it was worse than no glasses as I could barely function.Nobody's going to smash there car up because they have low testosterone , unlike being short sighted .
Since starting Tostran, I feel much better. Hormone levels back to normal, I'm more energetic and more emotionally stable. I am now able to watch Paddington 2 without blubbing at the end.
I mislaid my prescriotion a few months ago and had to go 2 weeks without it - by the end I was similar to how Four Litre says he was. Zero energy. crying for no reason. Hot flushes and absolutely miserable. In my case it was worse than ever because due to the fact I'd been using the replacement, my body didn't need to work to produce it so I had virtually no natural T at all.
I've no doubt that TRT is abused, but it's a lifesaver if you really need it.
popeyewhite said:
little reward other than psychological.
How does that sit with people who take PEDS to shortcut their progress? More or less commitment - could be argued either way.
The problem is - psychological reward is not little. It's MASSIVE! Your brain runs the show...if it's motivated to act in a way that isn't to your long term health....you have little say in the matter!How does that sit with people who take PEDS to shortcut their progress? More or less commitment - could be argued either way.
PEDS to shortcut performance....we can't ignore the huge difference between true TRT use and running gear. At the top end you are cheating in a sport, depriving others of success, wrecking your health.....at the other end, you hurt no one, feel better* and have as many health improvements as you do downsides. You can't answer your question without narrowing down the PED user we are discussing.
- I know it's easy to think TRT users spend all day worrying about their triceps insertions and whether the quad development is overpowering their hammys.......but I'm on a few TRT forums and the majority of people who start TRT are in a bad place on day 1. They aren't starting a life long, expensive, routine of injecting themselves every day to look hench! They are, literally sometimes, at the end of the line. If a small percent go on to feel great and end up ahead of the norm, that doesn't detract from their starting place. Had I not been unwell I would NEVER have done TRT in a million years!
Tiggsy said:
The problem is - psychological reward is not little. It's MASSIVE!
For some of us, not all.Tiggsy said:
Your brain runs the show...if it's motivated to act in a way that isn't to your long term health....you have little say in the matter!
I disagree. T think there's always a point at which people can say 'no', but that's the hard choice and they're uncommitted and lazy. It's the easier option.Tiggsy said:
PEDS to shortcut performance....we can't ignore the huge difference between true TRT use and running gear. At the top end you are cheating in a sport, depriving others of success, wrecking your health.....at the other end, you hurt no one, feel better* and have as many health improvements as you do downsides. You can't answer your question without narrowing down the PED user we are discussing.
All I meant was to a truly 100% committed and dedicated weightlifter it might seem sensible to take PEDS. Most do.Tiggsy said:
* I know it's easy to think TRT users spend all day worrying about their triceps insertions and whether the quad development is overpowering their hammys.......but I'm on a few TRT forums and the majority of people who start TRT are in a bad place on day 1. They aren't starting a life long, expensive, routine of injecting themselves every day to look hench! They are, literally sometimes, at the end of the line. If a small percent go on to feel great and end up ahead of the norm, that doesn't detract from their starting place. Had I not been unwell I would NEVER have done TRT in a million years!
Sure I get that, and now you're jacked. 
But there are those out there who feel rooten but who also see TRT as a way to start a mild t cruise, whether they would look at it in those terms or not... . Tiggsy said:
Whats interesting - and the same with women...is that it is 100% true that people are under more pressure than ever.....yet most of them are fatter than ever! It's almost like the "ideal" is moved so far from achievable that they give up with a burger and fries.
This response is pretty common, I think, smokers who resign them selves to death from smoking, kids (and adults) who start acting up when they don’t think they are going to win at something etc. I don’t think the obesity situation is as bad in Canada as Britain, but it’s not great.
The other problem IMO is that Athleisure is exploding right now and those brands all use guys who are absolutely jacked. All of the Gym Shark guys - James English for example - not a healthy message to promote IMO.
It makes it difficult to get people engaged with exercise when the perception is they are going to looked jacked after 6 months, lose a ton of weight etc and not treat it like something which will improve their quality of life.
popeyewhite said:
Four Litre said:
Thanks for the apology, fully accepted.
My post was tongue in cheek and I get my levels checked every few months, currently 14.4 so I wouldn't call that too high.
Maybe not jumping to assumptions would help you, not everyone takes TRT to get big, some people are ill and without it cant function.
You've lost me. If your post was tongue in cheek what do I need to apologise for? This is what you said:My post was tongue in cheek and I get my levels checked every few months, currently 14.4 so I wouldn't call that too high.
Maybe not jumping to assumptions would help you, not everyone takes TRT to get big, some people are ill and without it cant function.
Four Litre said:
I'm also on TRT and the difference between me on and off is astonishing! I'm middle aged and have been to the gym and ran since I was 19-20 years old. Since starting TRT 2+ years ago I've lost loads of fat and put on loads of muscle. So much so its starting to get silly as I look in the mirror and think " Who's that!"
Performance in running and training is night and day, post starting TRT, therefore I wonder if my body had produced testosterone would I of looked/performed like this a long time ago, or if I carry on will I end up looking like the Rocks distant UK cousin by xmas!
I'm pretty open about it with my mates, they all constantly ask me for some as they are declining physically, whereas I seem to be doing the opposite!
I said if the above was correct your dosage is too high, and I'm correct. Please tell me what I should I apologise for? Performance in running and training is night and day, post starting TRT, therefore I wonder if my body had produced testosterone would I of looked/performed like this a long time ago, or if I carry on will I end up looking like the Rocks distant UK cousin by xmas!
I'm pretty open about it with my mates, they all constantly ask me for some as they are declining physically, whereas I seem to be doing the opposite!
popeyewhite said:
Tiggsy said:
The problem is - psychological reward is not little. It's MASSIVE!
For some of us, not all.There are those, like you, who don't fall foul of these problems. But MILLIONS do - so saying "yeah, just lazy" doesn't move the situation forward.
You are standing in an AA meeting saying "what's the problem, drink less....I control what I drink...get a grip" - then walking out, job done. Only it's not - and that AA group is over half of everyone! You can argue alcoholics should all be terminated/are lazy scum/don't deserve your help......but unless you kill or deport them all, you are stuck living with them.
gregs656 said:
James English for example - not a healthy message to promote IMO.
At least when I was young 13/14 (even before I twigged Arnold was using gear) I never really saw him as an actual viable body to achieve - BB where superhuman, even if I didn't know why or how.Guys like English today make kids think they CAN look like that - and the ONLY two paths are drug ABUSE or failure.
didelydoo said:
Good on Tiggsy- everyone is keen to jump in and say that he's 'cheating' or in denial, having pretty much zero idea about how he trains, his diet, how much effort he puts in (which, from the looks of it, is very hard, consistently and on point)...
Ignoring all of the health aspects for a second (because I am not an expert) and whatever the training/diet plan looks like - with regards to "cheating" - of course it is.A 20 minute 5k is not world beating by any means, but it is above average - I guess the question is how much is personal effort and how much is the drugs - if denial is the term you want to use, then so be it - of course it takes hard work and training to get fast/strong - but would you be as fast or as strong without the drugs? No. 1%, 5% or 10%? who knows - point is that the drugs are responsible for some of the work - otherwise they wouldn't be banned by WADA without a TUE.
There is arguably a grey area - I am faster on my aero bike and run quicker in a pair of racing flats - the difference is these are allowed - I guess you can argue that technology such as my fancy bike and shoes give me an advantage over someone on who doesn't have access to them, but the line in the sand that says they are allowed and drugs are not does exist.
Hypothetically - if you win money or a trophy in a race you enter - do you refuse it on the grounds of you having an unfair advantage over the people you beat?
Not read the whole thread but some questions;
1. Using substances to improve your physique isn’t going to make much difference, of course it can but genetics are a way bigger factor.
2. What’s the problem with using them? Surely most followers know their role model is using all they can?
1. Using substances to improve your physique isn’t going to make much difference, of course it can but genetics are a way bigger factor.
2. What’s the problem with using them? Surely most followers know their role model is using all they can?
Tiggsy said:
True - but look around. 30% are obese. In 20 years time the average weight of an American is going to be 27 stone (science!)
There are those, like you, who don't fall foul of these problems. But MILLIONS do - so saying "yeah, just lazy" doesn't move the situation forward.
I've said the main problem was lack of commitment, maybe a side seriving of lazy. Another poster inferred 'just lazy'.There are those, like you, who don't fall foul of these problems. But MILLIONS do - so saying "yeah, just lazy" doesn't move the situation forward.
Tiggsy said:
You are standing in an AA meeting saying "what's the problem, drink less....I control what I drink...get a grip" - then walking out, job done. Only it's not - and that AA group is over half of everyone! You can argue alcoholics should all be terminated/are lazy scum/don't deserve your help......but unless you kill or deport them all, you are stuck living with them.
Not sure where you're going with that Tiggsy - that wasn't what I meant by quite some margin. I have worked with addicts of various kinds and most have said there was a point at which they were aware they were tipping towards addiction but decided it was the easier option, for whatever reason, at the time.
Tiggsy said:
I have a little (and I mean LITTLE) youtube channel that I occasional put something on that relates to my fitness regime. The other day I had a comment from someone in relation to an ultra marathon I'd run which was basically saying....you do that at 220lbs + you must be on gear. I laughed it off as I don't look remotely big but...as my endurance times get better, I came 3rd in a 10 mile trail run the other day, I am finishing with people much smaller than me. And I'm on TRT - so a grey area. With a couple of thousand subs (tiny) I pondered what my response would be if asked outright - I don't want to dilute my message which is "at any age, you can be better than most with some effort" but wouldn't want to outright lie. Anyway, for me, with my dinky little hobby channel it's neither here nor there really.
Just tell the truth – be honest about it. However you slice it, the TRT you’re on DOES have a positive effect on your performance. You said yourself that you’ve gone from significantly below where you should be, to slightly above.Combined with a solid training ethos and good nutrition, that IS going to be an advantage.
No amount of cerebral gymnastics will get away from that.
This is what I’m talking about when I earlier mentioned lack of transparency. If all other factors are bang on the money, even a small test boost is going to be a significant factor in size / strength / speed / whatever – and the level of significance rises again with the use of the serious stuff like tren.
So many of these people, even you, to an extent, are marketing themselves yet are totally leaving out a highly crucial component of their performance or physique.
It’s a bit like someone talking about the creation of a 1200bhp GTR, but not mentioning anything about the turbos & the mapping. At all. Then anytime someone asks what turbos (gear) they’re running, the question is completely ignored.
It becomes a ridiculous elephant in the room.
As I say, I’m cool with folk taking whatever they want, and having just turned 40, I’m starting to give consideration myself (tho poss in a few years yet) so I don’t have an axe to grind on the idea of using gear in isolation.
Tiggsy said:
In 20 years time the average weight of an American is going to be 27 stone (science!)
Where did that nugget of information come from? That sounds fairly extreme and unlikely. Being overweight has been normalised to the point that is not unusual at all, and people who are not fit or strong and are carrying a few (or a lot of) extra pounds are not seen as such, because that's what people who are 25+ generally look like in the UK in 2020.
popeyewhite said:
Not sure where you're going with that Tiggsy - that wasn't what I meant by quite some margin. I have worked with addicts of various kinds and most have said there was a point at which they were aware they were tipping towards addiction but decided it was the easier option, for whatever reason, at the time.
I suppose my point was (having lived with an addict) they found getting to the point of addiction easy because socially it was fine to over drink - once there, no amount of telling them the obvious would bring them back. The compulsion to drink (or eat) is overwhelming once stuck in that place.
One of the issues is that, for many, it appears to be all about "the look". For me, being healthy, usefully strong, mobile, capable, able to repaond to situations and being able to perform well at the sort of activities I enjoy is what is important. You become what you train for. As it happens, I am in far better all-round condition than most men of my age (not as muscular or strong as some on here, but that is not my aim), but that is a consequence of a lot of training and considering what I eat and drink.
If you don't enjoy the training or the activities you are doing then there can be little satisfaction in training and living healthily.
It is unrealistic to expect to suddenly become a heavily-muscled man with almost no body fat (or fluid!) and a good looking face in a matter of months (or ever, for most) , especially not without a lot of training, good genetics, pharmaceutical assistance and photo filtering/airbrushing.
If you don't enjoy the training or the activities you are doing then there can be little satisfaction in training and living healthily.
It is unrealistic to expect to suddenly become a heavily-muscled man with almost no body fat (or fluid!) and a good looking face in a matter of months (or ever, for most) , especially not without a lot of training, good genetics, pharmaceutical assistance and photo filtering/airbrushing.
Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff