Fitness gurus on the juice...

[markcoznottz]

ORD said:

markcoznottz said:

Strength athlete. Been in the iron game 30 years, got my first set of dumbells at 16, never really stopped. My old man part owned a gym, I know former mr universe competitors, and uk strongmen. I'm from an engineering background, so I always thought there was something very wrong with how people learnt the craft. Early 60's to 2000, you had weiders mags. That was your lot, plus recycled crap passed around the gym. Oh and Arnold's book. There never was and still to this day isn't any reliable material re what most people want to know. How does the average person get bigger drug free. Not 'fake natty', but truly natural. The worrying thing is there just aren't enough of us, and all the you tube vids feature ped users. It's a truly strange industry built on lies. Greg Doucette, who openly admits using, still gets people asking him 'is the rock natural ' etc. That's the normalisation of drug use and to be fair it's getting out of hand, i.e. Hollywood stars. Around 2000 there was a lot of interest in old school routines, i.e. 20 rep squats, abbreviated routines, back then social media didn't exist, so the interest was more in the actual routine, rather than the personality of the 'influencer' . I discovered stuart mcroberts hardgainer site and decided to try and it really set me on my path to reaching my genetic ceiling, which to be fair, is as far as anyone can go.

I strongly suggest ORD you refrain from the the use of insults like troll, especially when dealing with people who have forgotten more than you will ever know. Anything you want to know ask away.

You’ve missed a full 20 years of extensive academic and practical learning on hypertrophy. There are huge resources out there. It’s not 2000 anymore.

I haven't been anywhere, still in the game of sorts, I damaged a disc in 2003 which stopped me doing big stuff. I'm too scared to squat/ dead anymore basically. I will say one thing though, I haven't touched a weight in 17 years and I haven't lost an ounce of muscle. I guess that's one advantage of natural. You keep what you earn. With regard to hypertrophy, weight on the bar in good form, causes adaptive response equals hypertrophy. Progressive overload is rarely talked about nowadays I guess because steroids are so cheap and available. Fractional plates are the easiest way to overload. If you do a compound exercise it hits most muscles before cortisol knocks you out of synthesis. Remember, it's a small window, so perfect form, abbreviated compound exercise, single set, go home and watch tv.

The penny has dropped for this guy

https://youtu.be/_USjFW_DI2s

[markcoznottz]

Halb said:

TheJimi said:

*thud*

I'm genuinely shocked

[Tiggsy]

When did fighting become a useful metric of anything???? It’s 2020.....not 2000bc.

You may as well say bodybuilders can’t play badminton or that people focusing on strength will suffer when they get given a rubiks cube.

[ORD]

Tiggsy said:

When did fighting become a useful metric of anything???? It’s 2020.....not 2000bc.

You may as well say bodybuilders can’t play badminton or that people focusing on strength will suffer when they get given a rubiks cube.

I’ve only ever met one competitive badminton player. He was jacked as hell. Case closed.

[lord trumpton]

I just want to apologise to all for my inflammatory post

Although partly in jest and deliberately a bit of a silly/needless dig - it was poorly worded and went too far especially with the maggot comment.

Hope you guys can forgive my stupidness as the Health forum has been very good to me of late and I feel bad for being such a dick on this occasion!

Sorry guys!

OH - boxing - Its not 'fighting' its a highly disciplined sport and doesn't translate into being a hard man outside the ring, I certainly dont consider myself a hard man. I just have a well tuned engine with a subtle bodykit haha

[ORD]

markcoznottz said:

I haven't been anywhere, still in the game of sorts, I damaged a disc in 2003 which stopped me doing big stuff. I'm too scared to squat/ dead anymore basically. I will say one thing though, I haven't touched a weight in 17 years and I haven't lost an ounce of muscle. I guess that's one advantage of natural. You keep what you earn. With regard to hypertrophy, weight on the bar in good form, causes adaptive response equals hypertrophy. Progressive overload is rarely talked about nowadays I guess because steroids are so cheap and available. Fractional plates are the easiest way to overload. If you do a compound exercise it hits most muscles before cortisol knocks you out of synthesis. Remember, it's a small window, so perfect form, abbreviated compound exercise, single set, go home and watch tv.

The penny has dropped for this guy

https://youtu.be/_USjFW_DI2s

I disagree with most of what you say about the science, but I should respect your experience.

Cortisol is not going to blunt synthesis unless you are training for literally hours. Synthesis stays elevated for, what, about 24 hours after s training bout? So a cortisol spike (which will happen anyway) is not going to make a big difference.

There have been lots of studies into single set versus multiple set training, and multiple set training is almost always (or maybe always, I forget) more successful in stimulating hypertrophy. I am not aware of anyone active in the science-based end of the strength training world that advocates very low volumes. As far as I know, all natural powerlifters do a fair bit of volume, including a lot of assistance work (because it stimulates hypertrophy while being easy to recover from).

All that said, we are all different and respond differently. I’ve personally found that I can sometimes make reasonable gains on very low volumes, but it stalls out quite quickly (about 4 weeks). But I’m old (36) and weak as piss (165/130/190kg) and never train more than than 3 times per week, so my experience isn’t much to go by.

I agree with you about compound lifts and intensity (with progressive overload) being key for naturals. That largely explains why the vast majority of gym guys don’t get stronger - they are doing BB isolation programmes designed for guys on gear and not moving enough weight over a big enough ROM. I am probably arguing with you about the 10% on which we disagree, rather than acknowledging the 90%. A bad habit of mine.

Sorry to hear about your back. I injured my back for the first time in years on Boxing Day - not very serious and largely back to normal now - but it was fking horrible.

[MC Bodge]

J4CKO said:

Phew, cant breathe for all the Testosterone and posturing in here

Maybe that's a result of all the juicing?

[Halb]

I feel warmed within from the wellspring of brotherly love that had sprung up! Is it time for a mass group hug?

---

Look what the youtube logarithm suspiciously threw up for me, 10 giant fighters, I've heard of most but the lady, 225lbs....jeeez.
Gabi Garcia, Aoriglele looks cool.

10 Massive Fighters You'd Never See In The UFC
MMA On Point
https://youtu.be/qxE0-XR3dZA

[Pvapour]

Halb said:

I feel warmed within from the wellspring of brotherly love that had sprung up! Is it time for a mass group hug?

---

Look what the youtube logarithm suspiciously threw up for me, 10 giant fighters, I've heard of most but the lady, 225lbs....jeeez.
Gabi Garcia, Aoriglele looks cool.

10 Massive Fighters You'd Never See In The UFC
MMA On Point
https://youtu.be/qxE0-XR3dZA

Can i be your strava bruva?

This thread had sooo much hope, oh well...

[mcelliott]

Yes a group hug, buts hips apart please.

[markcoznottz]

ORD said:

markcoznottz said:

I haven't been anywhere, still in the game of sorts, I damaged a disc in 2003 which stopped me doing big stuff. I'm too scared to squat/ dead anymore basically. I will say one thing though, I haven't touched a weight in 17 years and I haven't lost an ounce of muscle. I guess that's one advantage of natural. You keep what you earn. With regard to hypertrophy, weight on the bar in good form, causes adaptive response equals hypertrophy. Progressive overload is rarely talked about nowadays I guess because steroids are so cheap and available. Fractional plates are the easiest way to overload. If you do a compound exercise it hits most muscles before cortisol knocks you out of synthesis. Remember, it's a small window, so perfect form, abbreviated compound exercise, single set, go home and watch tv.

The penny has dropped for this guy

https://youtu.be/_USjFW_DI2s

I disagree with most of what you say about the science, but I should respect your experience.

Cortisol is not going to blunt synthesis unless you are training for literally hours. Synthesis stays elevated for, what, about 24 hours after s training bout? So a cortisol spike (which will happen anyway) is not going to make a big difference.

There have been lots of studies into single set versus multiple set training, and multiple set training is almost always (or maybe always, I forget) more successful in stimulating hypertrophy. I am not aware of anyone active in the science-based end of the strength training world that advocates very low volumes. As far as I know, all natural powerlifters do a fair bit of volume, including a lot of assistance work (because it stimulates hypertrophy while being easy to recover from).

All that said, we are all different and respond differently. I’ve personally found that I can sometimes make reasonable gains on very low volumes, but it stalls out quite quickly (about 4 weeks). But I’m old (36) and weak as piss (165/130/190kg) and never train more than than 3 times per week, so my experience isn’t much to go by.

I agree with you about compound lifts and intensity (with progressive overload) being key for naturals. That largely explains why the vast majority of gym guys don’t get stronger - they are doing BB isolation programmes designed for guys on gear and not moving enough weight over a big enough ROM. I am probably arguing with you about the 10% on which we disagree, rather than acknowledging the 90%. A bad habit of mine.

Sorry to hear about your back. I injured my back for the first time in years on Boxing Day - not very serious and largely back to normal now - but it was fking horrible.

Well you probably know more than most people out there. The most amazing thing is how much knowledge of steroids there now is, yet pretty much unknown amongst the wider public. You have to worry about these young guys who are using, who probably have no other source of income, it's going to attract even more wanting to be you tubers. I damaged a disc in my back doing 20 rep squats, about the 17th rep, I went down a bit too fast, I think I'd peaked mentally, and got a little blase, sloppy. Played pool that nite felt fine, couldn't get out of bed the next day. Two weeks later I was fine. Touch wood it has never reoccurred. I daren't risk it though, at the end of the day it's only lifting pieces of cast iron it's not life and death, the world will still turn. If I couldn't squat or dead, doesn't interest me at all, so I left it.

[TheJimi]

I have to say, in fairness to ORD, in respect of the mention of 0.25kg plates on a trap bar deadlift - that did raise an eyebrow with me as well.

No doubt the it has a place, but as far as I can see, only in a very narrow set of parameters.

[markcoznottz]

TheJimi said:

I have to say, in fairness to ORD, in respect of the mention of 0.25kg plates on a trap bar deadlift - that did raise an eyebrow with me as well.

No doubt the it has a place, but as far as I can see, only in a very narrow set of parameters.

Lost BMW showed a lot of interest, he was going to switch to super abbreviated, doesn't post anymore sadly.

[TheJimi]

Ah yeah, Lost_BMW.

He was VERY fond of ridiculously high rep lateral raises. Like, hundreds in a session.

Liked his bag work too, iirc.

I think he wasn't at all happy in his personal life, iirc from his comments. He ended up getting into a big spat with Smiffy (of all people!) and called it a day after that.

[mcelliott]

TheJimi said:

Ah yeah, Lost_BMW.

He was VERY fond of ridiculously high rep lateral raises. Like, hundreds in a session.

Liked his bag work too, iirc.

I think he wasn't at all happy in his personal life, iirc from his comments. He ended up getting into a big spat with Smiffy (of all people!) and called it a day after that.

His pre and post workout meals consisted mainly of Mr Freeezes if I recall.

[markcoznottz]

TheJimi said:

I have to say, in fairness to ORD, in respect of the mention of 0.25kg plates on a trap bar deadlift - that did raise an eyebrow with me as well.

No doubt the it has a place, but as far as I can see, only in a very narrow set of parameters.

What are those parameters?

[Halb]

Pvapour said:

Can i be your strava bruva?

This thread had sooo much hope, oh well...

I wouldn't wish to make Tiggsy jealous.

---

Lost BMW was a great poster, I was only thinking the other day I wanna start up his heavy bag routine. I do need a heavy bag first though.
I have used the fractional plate thing, I think it works.

[Halb]

markcoznottz said:

I haven't touched a weight in 17 years and I haven't lost an ounce of muscle.

You do callisthenics?

20 rep squats are currently part of my routine. Did one on Wednesday, when you get up to that 15/16/17 number, it becomes a mental thing as much as a physical thing.

[markcoznottz]

Halb said:

markcoznottz said:

I haven't touched a weight in 17 years and I haven't lost an ounce of muscle.

You do callisthenics?

20 rep squats are currently part of my routine. Did one on Wednesday, when you get up to that 15/16/17 number, it becomes a mental thing as much as a physical thing.

No no exercise at all, not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Tried yoga a few years ago, didn't do much for me.I Do mainly manual work which has saved me from seizing up completely. 20 rep squats are superb, and so satisfying, in a primal way. Great at working all those core muscles that get overlooked,e.g. tva, maybe even the diaphragm. The squat and the dead are older than we are, but they are still here, we are talking about them, without a doubt the best building exercises going.

[Tiggsy]

In case anyone cares - came 4th today in the 10 mile dog/man trail run. So, off podium and no need to declare my roided to the gills status

Got crushed by a girl with a hound - she made my large body and my tiny dog both look equally silly