Fitness gurus on the juice...
Discussion
For what it's worth and to answer those talking about the difference it makes...
I ran a 5K 20.06 in late summer - no TRT. Stayed off the short distances as I was tied up with OCR racing and much longer stuff.
Ran on the 1st Jan for a laugh as I had nothing else to do - ran 19.38. Started TRT around October I think.
So I was quicker by some way....BUT (and please note...if this comes across as kidding myself..call it! I am genuinely interested in all aspects of this. Is it real, placebo, age, TRT....I'm open to anything)
a) I'd have got quicker via the distance stuff I was doing - running 50K won't make me run fast, as such.....but it makes 5k feel pretty short. So the training would have helped anyway.
b) I only got into running a few years ago with a 35m 5k time!!! So yes, I'm old...but I'm a new runner with newbie gains.
That said, I'm pretty sure the TRT helps more indirectly. It reduces my need for recovery time, up's my motivation. The very fact I ran at all was because I jumped out of bed on NY day and thought "hey, lets run" And on when I'm half way round...maybe the "feel good" factor is half placebo???? I'll take that though! More placebo please!
And - I'm a rubbish example of seeing the obvious signs of steroid use - I lift to stay away from looking like the average runner in my sport of OCR racing. My training is RUBBISH for OCR and lifting but cool for me. For example, I'm just back from doing legs. After I smoked them on deads I finished with 2k on the treadmill at 3.45 p/km pace - thats not a good way to train legs for size and big dead lifts are pretty useless for OCR. But it lets me get my big lifts in and have my legs push through some serious pain. When I'm 20k into a race going up a mountain with a sand bag on my back.....it helps. Other than that - it's daft.
I ran a 5K 20.06 in late summer - no TRT. Stayed off the short distances as I was tied up with OCR racing and much longer stuff.
Ran on the 1st Jan for a laugh as I had nothing else to do - ran 19.38. Started TRT around October I think.
So I was quicker by some way....BUT (and please note...if this comes across as kidding myself..call it! I am genuinely interested in all aspects of this. Is it real, placebo, age, TRT....I'm open to anything)
a) I'd have got quicker via the distance stuff I was doing - running 50K won't make me run fast, as such.....but it makes 5k feel pretty short. So the training would have helped anyway.
b) I only got into running a few years ago with a 35m 5k time!!! So yes, I'm old...but I'm a new runner with newbie gains.
That said, I'm pretty sure the TRT helps more indirectly. It reduces my need for recovery time, up's my motivation. The very fact I ran at all was because I jumped out of bed on NY day and thought "hey, lets run" And on when I'm half way round...maybe the "feel good" factor is half placebo???? I'll take that though! More placebo please!
And - I'm a rubbish example of seeing the obvious signs of steroid use - I lift to stay away from looking like the average runner in my sport of OCR racing. My training is RUBBISH for OCR and lifting but cool for me. For example, I'm just back from doing legs. After I smoked them on deads I finished with 2k on the treadmill at 3.45 p/km pace - thats not a good way to train legs for size and big dead lifts are pretty useless for OCR. But it lets me get my big lifts in and have my legs push through some serious pain. When I'm 20k into a race going up a mountain with a sand bag on my back.....it helps. Other than that - it's daft.
Parsnip said:
As above - hypothetically or otherwise - if you start winning races, or taking prize money/trophies for your efforts, will you be accepting them?
Good question - right now I'm miles from that. I run in OCR races in my age group heats and my target (which took me all last year to start hitting) was to finish in the top half. Miles off a podium. There is no amount of drugs in the world that will make me, at 6ft6 and 225lbs, run an OCR race through the mountains over 3 hours and beat a 140lb elite runner who does 35m 10k's - and my sport is full of them. I'm an oddity.....it's like moaning that the black guy who swam in the Olympics and almost drown himself is cheating if he had super aerodynamic trunks on!I'm just operating at a fun level where these things don't matter. If I take 7th in a park run (way off the winners) does the guy in 8th care I'm on TRT??
Likewise I have a canicross race on Sunday - me and the dog have taken a 3rd and 2nd recently....we are 1 person having flu away from a prize! I think 1st prize was a £3 voucher for dog biscuits!
So....canicross/fun run...if by some miracle I won (I'd need a lOT of people to get flu) yes - I'll take it. OCR...it's a bigger deal with championship qualification etc...I'd have to think on that (still never gonna happen)
If it was a sport with direct links to the benefits TRT gives...different story. But if me and my jack russel crush you in a trail race.....tough luck
Sound fair? Serious question...I'm all ears if I'm wrong on the morals of this.
My issue with social media users was when their artificial physic, that’s impossible to achieve naturally, is used to generate income while lying about how they do it.
I look no different on the outside to when I wasn’t taking TRT and make no money, attract no subs, because of how I look anyway.
I’m all for exploring my own inner conflicts on the issue....but unsure what I do is in the same ball park as what they do!
I look no different on the outside to when I wasn’t taking TRT and make no money, attract no subs, because of how I look anyway.
I’m all for exploring my own inner conflicts on the issue....but unsure what I do is in the same ball park as what they do!
And my initial interest in TRT was 100% sparked from training. It wasn’t till I sat with a dr and went over my results that he started to ask questions about other aspects of my health that made me wonder if there was a link. I was pretty sceptical of the supposed benifts to motivation, mood, etc......but it was here I noticed the change first. Very cool side effect. Is it right to call depressive symptoms “unwell” .....maybe not. But I’m glad they went all the same.
I have kept saying....I have zero issue with people doing steroids at whatever level they like. My point was profiting from it while suggesting those gains could be had naturally feels dangerous now the ones saying that are much closer to home than bodybuilders of old. Or maybe not, maybe (as I said) it’s no different to muscle and fitness magazine in the 80’s???
My use of TRT doesn’t make any difference to my videos. The most popular of which is me changing the clutch on my motorbike! If I stopped TRT tomorrow my videos would look the same, I’d look the same. When I vlog about a motorbike trip, no one cares about my hormones. I don’t profit from it anyway. My sports message, what little there is of it on there, is not be like me – it is get out and do something because it’s cool to do so.
I am talking about people who, if they stopped the drug use, would look very different and their message would become very different.
Again, I have no issue with somebody suggesting that those two things are identical. I’m just surprised to hear it.
I am talking about people who, if they stopped the drug use, would look very different and their message would become very different.
Again, I have no issue with somebody suggesting that those two things are identical. I’m just surprised to hear it.
Also, ultimately, I would happily discuss TRT within my videos if they became more commonly linked to sporting stuff I do. I haven’t done thus far simply because it hasn’t been relevant. Because nothing I do requires TRT I doubt it would make much difference other than attract people specifically interested in the subject I suppose? My latest video is about mounting my fun run medals in acrylic resin – it would be an odd departure to veer off into steroids halfway through ??
gregs656 said:
Tiggsy said:
Also, ultimately, I would happily discuss TRT within my videos if they became more commonly linked to sporting stuff I do. I haven’t done thus far simply because it hasn’t been relevant. Because nothing I do requires TRT I doubt it would make much difference other than attract people specifically interested in the subject I suppose? My latest video is about mounting my fun run medals in acrylic resin – it would be an odd departure to veer off into steroids halfway through ??
You say that, but you never mention it on posts on here when you talk about your achievements.For example on your sub 20m parkrun thread you didn't mention TRT at all - that's a good example actually as the time line of many of the things you talk about is consistent with you starting on TRT.
I suppose the options are a) never mention it b) never mention any thing I achieve c) mention it and deal with it becoming the story when it isn't
Genuinely very new to it so finding the best way as I go. The idea of sticking it on you tube appeals - I just don't want to have my comments section full of "of course you can do that - you're on drugs" when it's a video about installing a new chain on my bike!!
mcelliott said:
Jeez TRT has given you probably an improvement of maybe 10% or whatever at your top end, a middle aged bloke doing a few runs, it not like he's got a full program of EPO use going on and winning s
t loads of money to boot.
Hey......pump your brakes Voucher for 15% discount on dog food if I win my race on Saturday (and NO...the dog is not on gear)t loads of money to boot.Halb said:
Do you ache less, Tiggsy?
Hard to say. Early in the season I would ache bad after an endurance event but then started using cbd oil on those days....weirdly good. Would wake up feeling great and rested even if I’d be toast the day before. On TRT I’ve been able to ramp up training and still can counter aches with CBD. How much the TRT helps I don’t know. Bottom line, I beat myself up a lot for a heavy old man. Good sleep, cbd, daily sauna and massage = not much regarding aches. Hard to say which bit is responsible. Bit if each I expect. It’s an aspect I love. I did a heavy back session Monday. Did some dead hang work yesterday for grip/hang strength but back feels good so I’ll be at the climbing wall tomorrow morning for an hour. I also did deadlifts today but will be fine to run 15k on Thursday as my last run before a 15k race the weekend (with dog). A lot is motivation it provides in the head....but no doubt it’s doing something physical. It can’t all be placebo.
Edited by Tiggsy on Tuesday 28th January 22:47
I'd imagine the numbers of young men on gear is VAST compared to years ago.
I go to a local gym attached to a school (because it's a 5 min walk from my house!) - it's a million miles from hardcore and is pretty rubbish so nobody (who doesn't live walking distance!) serious would use it. But it's usable and has all I need.
Anyway - yesterday I was in there with:
An overweight mum walking on the treadmill
A 30 something regular joe on the rower
3 asian guys - mid 20's. Tracksuits to hide the legs and just doing set after set of concentration curls. All around 20-25% bf, big arms/delts...not much else. Easily achievable natural (if you wanted to look like that!)
No one there "looked on gear" and the mum probably wasnt! The regular Joe - doubtful. I'm on TRT and the 3 kids 99% use. So thats 4 in 6 on "something" in the most un-gear type gym going. Why do I think the kids use.....because why wouldn't they? It's cheap, works, easy to get, safe (they are told) and everyone does it (they assume from Youtube) - I expect kids like that go straight from Whey to Test in the way we used to move onto creatine!
I go to a local gym attached to a school (because it's a 5 min walk from my house!) - it's a million miles from hardcore and is pretty rubbish so nobody (who doesn't live walking distance!) serious would use it. But it's usable and has all I need.
Anyway - yesterday I was in there with:
An overweight mum walking on the treadmill
A 30 something regular joe on the rower
3 asian guys - mid 20's. Tracksuits to hide the legs and just doing set after set of concentration curls. All around 20-25% bf, big arms/delts...not much else. Easily achievable natural (if you wanted to look like that!)
No one there "looked on gear" and the mum probably wasnt! The regular Joe - doubtful. I'm on TRT and the 3 kids 99% use. So thats 4 in 6 on "something" in the most un-gear type gym going. Why do I think the kids use.....because why wouldn't they? It's cheap, works, easy to get, safe (they are told) and everyone does it (they assume from Youtube) - I expect kids like that go straight from Whey to Test in the way we used to move onto creatine!
ORD said:
The typical couch potato hates to see someone in good shape, so it sells well to say "Must be on gear!".
Correct - but with regards social media, they are right. I'm of the opinion that anyone on youtube/IG, etc that gains in someway from looking big/ripped is 99.99999999% using something.If they where truly clean, they'd post their blood work and a training programme and make themselves millions.
Only if they use it to get big. I know plenty who have used for cycling. I had a mate heavily into the sport years ago. He looked very natural, small even. Stupidly strong for his size though and nippy on a bike.
And there’s a ton of youngsters that use then don’t train much at all. They don’t use often or much and it’s all a bit half hearted. They just do it because it’s easy to do it. The same as plenty of 15 year olds eat a grenade bar, have a whey shake and bang out some curls once a week. You don’t have to be close to serious to try it.
And there’s a ton of youngsters that use then don’t train much at all. They don’t use often or much and it’s all a bit half hearted. They just do it because it’s easy to do it. The same as plenty of 15 year olds eat a grenade bar, have a whey shake and bang out some curls once a week. You don’t have to be close to serious to try it.
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