Vaccine side effects
Discussion
RipTrip1 said:
The type of source is irrelevent. What matters is what the PUBLIC sees and reads, or have you forgotten that?
Either way, the latest 'facts' aka the latest narrative, says we can all spread covid very easily to each other. So what next, facemasks indefinitely? Probably the best shout, no?
Type of source is incredibly relevant. It's the internet after all.Either way, the latest 'facts' aka the latest narrative, says we can all spread covid very easily to each other. So what next, facemasks indefinitely? Probably the best shout, no?
It's precisely because posts like your own which are lies and misinformation that we have to challenge poor sources of information, and where necessary, report to the moderation team as damaging to public health.
ooid said:
isaldiri said:
Well, generally accepted that they do help yes. That belief however has not been based on any even reasonably strong evidence anywhere of real world usage. The quoted studies are lab based or observational with lots of other confounding variables - no one anywhere seems to have been interested in figuring how to do a proper RCT (which to be fair wouldn't be easy) to test whether said intervention has had any use at all.
It was simply recommended on the premise of being 'precautionary' based on weak evidence (as acknowledged in various sage/who etc papers) in an emergency but for all manner of reasons no one afterwards seemed motivated to continue to seek the data that would justify it's continuation.
Taleb did a good writing on this, have a look.It was simply recommended on the premise of being 'precautionary' based on weak evidence (as acknowledged in various sage/who etc papers) in an emergency but for all manner of reasons no one afterwards seemed motivated to continue to seek the data that would justify it's continuation.
https://medium.com/incerto/the-masks-masquerade-7d...
This for me anyway is a rather more nuanced view on the whole 'masks' issue and whether they have a substantial effect.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/...
isaldiri said:
Well I utterly disagree. Taleb has been one of the most unhinged pro mask fanatics imo and exactly one of those on the extreme ends of the argument that were repeatedly and loudly proclaiming they simply had to be right and anyone disagreed with them as thick/evil/bad etc.
This for me anyway is a rather more nuanced view on the whole 'masks' issue and whether they have a substantial effect.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/...
Beyond his loud personality, he has two valid points. “Compounding” and “Mistaking Absence of Evidence for Evidence of Absence”This for me anyway is a rather more nuanced view on the whole 'masks' issue and whether they have a substantial effect.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/...
Mask Wearing is habitual in Japan for decades. It does help NOT(oops) spreading potential germs in extremely confined and small places.
Edited by ooid on Friday 30th July 23:29
Evanivitch said:
Type of source is incredibly relevant. It's the internet after all.
It's precisely because posts like your own which are lies and misinformation that we have to challenge poor sources of information, and where necessary, report to the moderation team as damaging to public health.
Not to the general public reader. I didn't lie, I posted legitimate sources available to you and me! Countered your report with a report of my own for promoting the use of experimental, untested vaccines, far more damaging to public health than a harmless article!!! It's precisely because posts like your own which are lies and misinformation that we have to challenge poor sources of information, and where necessary, report to the moderation team as damaging to public health.
ooid said:
Mask Wearing is habitual in Japan for decades.
Well... you missed out... it's habitual if symptomatic. That kind of makes a bit of a difference I'd suggest compared to everyone being forced to wear one regardless..If symptomatic with covid symptoms, one should be staying home away from other people anyway rather than sticking a mask on and still wandering about... As has been shown over the course of the outbreak quite regularly, if one is in a high risk situation (infected people in an enclosed space) you are likely going to get it regardless of 'face coverings' outside of wearing a N95 or similar mask yourself (which would be entirely sensible if in a high risk group) and in low risk situations, the absolute risk reduction of said 'face covering' worn by yourself or others is pretty much inconsequential anyway.
isaldiri said:
Well... you missed out... it's habitual if symptomatic. That kind of makes a bit of a difference I'd suggest compared to everyone being forced to wear one regardless..
If symptomatic with covid symptoms, one should be staying home away from other people anyway rather than sticking a mask on and still wandering about... As has been shown over the course of the outbreak quite regularly, if one is in a high risk situation (infected people in an enclosed space) you are likely going to get it regardless of 'face coverings' outside of wearing a N95 or similar mask yourself (which would be entirely sensible if in a high risk group) and in low risk situations, the absolute risk reduction of said 'face covering' worn by yourself or others is pretty much inconsequential anyway.
Ex lead scientist at Pfizer Mike Yeadon stated that it's borderline impossible to spread covid to other people if you are asymptomatic. The more heavily infected you are, the worse your symptoms will be. Never in history has a virus spread easily with zero symptoms. Food for thought....If symptomatic with covid symptoms, one should be staying home away from other people anyway rather than sticking a mask on and still wandering about... As has been shown over the course of the outbreak quite regularly, if one is in a high risk situation (infected people in an enclosed space) you are likely going to get it regardless of 'face coverings' outside of wearing a N95 or similar mask yourself (which would be entirely sensible if in a high risk group) and in low risk situations, the absolute risk reduction of said 'face covering' worn by yourself or others is pretty much inconsequential anyway.
The Spruce Goose said:
RipTrip1 said:
Never in history has a virus spread easily with zero symptoms. .
HIV?The list goes on.
Ten seconds on Google:
Baylisascaris procyonis[2]
Bordetella pertussis (Pertussis or whooping cough)[3]
Chlamydia pneumoniae[4]
Chlamydia trachomatis (Chlamydia)[5][6][7]
Clostridium difficile[8]
Cyclospora cayetanensis[9]
Dengue virus[10]
Dientamoeba fragilis[11]
Entamoeba histolytica[12]
enterotoxigenic Escherichia coli[13]
Epstein-Barr virus[14]
Group A streptococcal infection[15]
Helicobacter pylori[16]
Herpes simplex (oral herpes, genital herpes, etc.)[17]
HIV-1 (AIDS)[18]
Influenza (strains)
Legionella pneumophila (Legionnaires' disease)[19]
measles viruses[20]
Mycobacterium leprae (leprosy)[21]
Mycobacterium tuberculosis (tuberculosis)[22]
Neisseria gonorrhoeae (gonorrhoea)[5][6]
Neisseria meningitidis (Meningitis)[23]
nontyphoidal Salmonella[24]
noroviruses[25]
Poliovirus (Poliomyelitis)
Plasmodium (Malaria)
Rabies lyssavirus (Rabies)
rhinoviruses (Common cold)[26]
Salmonella enterica serovar Typhi (Typhoid fever)[27]
SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19)[28] and other coronaviruses[29]
Staphylococcus aureus[30]
Streptococcus pneumoniae (Bacterial pneumonia)[31]
Treponema pallidum (syphilis)[32]
glazbagun said:
Ten seconds on Google:
Well - while the earlier poster had obviously overstated his point, 10 seconds on Google also has no less than Fauci in Jan 2020 saying that while asymptomatic spread was possible if not probable for the at the time novel coronavirus, the main driver of spread of any of the known respiratory viruses had never been known or found to be from asymptomatic individuals. It's possible if a little unlikely this particular virus is so different from all the other respiratory viruses (despite sharing plenty of other similarities) that asymptomatic spread is such an issue that it has required mass use of 'face coverings'...or just maybe it's function was more one of pandemic theatre as a very highly visible sign of 'doing something' irrespective of the actual risk reduction achieved.
glazbagun said:
HPV sprung to my mind.
Ten seconds on Google:
Baylisascaris procyonis[2]
Bordetella pertussis (Pertussis or whooping cough)[3]
Chlamydia pneumoniae[4]
Chlamydia trachomatis (Chlamydia)[5][6][7]
Clostridium difficile[8]
Cyclospora cayetanensis[9]
Dengue virus[10]
Dientamoeba fragilis[11]
Entamoeba histolytica[12]
enterotoxigenic Escherichia coli[13]
Epstein-Barr virus[14]
Group A streptococcal infection[15]
Helicobacter pylori[16]
Herpes simplex (oral herpes, genital herpes, etc.)[17]
HIV-1 (AIDS)[18]
Influenza (strains)
Legionella pneumophila (Legionnaires' disease)[19]
measles viruses[20]
Mycobacterium leprae (leprosy)[21]
Mycobacterium tuberculosis (tuberculosis)[22]
Neisseria gonorrhoeae (gonorrhoea)[5][6]
Neisseria meningitidis (Meningitis)[23]
nontyphoidal Salmonella[24]
noroviruses[25]
Poliovirus (Poliomyelitis)
Plasmodium (Malaria)
Rabies lyssavirus (Rabies)
rhinoviruses (Common cold)[26]
Salmonella enterica serovar Typhi (Typhoid fever)[27]
SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19)[28] and other coronaviruses[29]
Staphylococcus aureus[30]
Streptococcus pneumoniae (Bacterial pneumonia)[31]
Treponema pallidum (syphilis)[32]
Chlamydia trachomatis is a virus is it? NPC vaxxers are thick as thieves. I think you will find Chlamydia trachomatis is a bacterial infection. Your 10 seconds on Google clearly wasn't sufficient. Come on NPC, download some new thought processes, tick tock, tick tock Ten seconds on Google:
Baylisascaris procyonis[2]
Bordetella pertussis (Pertussis or whooping cough)[3]
Chlamydia pneumoniae[4]
Chlamydia trachomatis (Chlamydia)[5][6][7]
Clostridium difficile[8]
Cyclospora cayetanensis[9]
Dengue virus[10]
Dientamoeba fragilis[11]
Entamoeba histolytica[12]
enterotoxigenic Escherichia coli[13]
Epstein-Barr virus[14]
Group A streptococcal infection[15]
Helicobacter pylori[16]
Herpes simplex (oral herpes, genital herpes, etc.)[17]
HIV-1 (AIDS)[18]
Influenza (strains)
Legionella pneumophila (Legionnaires' disease)[19]
measles viruses[20]
Mycobacterium leprae (leprosy)[21]
Mycobacterium tuberculosis (tuberculosis)[22]
Neisseria gonorrhoeae (gonorrhoea)[5][6]
Neisseria meningitidis (Meningitis)[23]
nontyphoidal Salmonella[24]
noroviruses[25]
Poliovirus (Poliomyelitis)
Plasmodium (Malaria)
Rabies lyssavirus (Rabies)
rhinoviruses (Common cold)[26]
Salmonella enterica serovar Typhi (Typhoid fever)[27]
SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19)[28] and other coronaviruses[29]
Staphylococcus aureus[30]
Streptococcus pneumoniae (Bacterial pneumonia)[31]
Treponema pallidum (syphilis)[32]
The Spruce Goose said:
HIV?
The list goes on.
Glad you were able to souce a comprehensive lis....oh wait, you provided one, then gave up. Your one provided doesn't even count.The list goes on.
https://www.healthline.com/health/hiv-aids/early-s...
Early symptoms of HIV
The early signs of HIV may appear as symptoms similar to those caused by the flu. These can include:
headache
fever
tiredness
swollen lymph nodes
sore throat
thrush
rash
muscle and joint pain
ulcers in the mouth
ulcers on the genitals
night sweats
diarrhea
Sorry, you lose, better luck next time! Anyone else care to challenge Ex Lead Scientist of Pfizer: Mr Yeadon?
RipTrip1 said:
Not to the general public reader. I didn't lie, I posted legitimate sources available to you and me! Countered your report with a report of my own for promoting the use of experimental, untested vaccines, far more damaging to public health than a harmless article!!!
Which vaccines are experimental and untested?RipTrip1 said:
Anyone else care to challenge Ex Lead Scientist of Pfizer: Mr Yeadon?
You clearly put a lot of faith in this fellow who has dropped some mightly clangers and been horribly wrong on a lot of things, including confidently predicting that covid would fizzle out by itself a long time ago. It's not a great idea to be too overwhelmed by someone simply because they might be highly qualified, they can still be wrong and can still get very misguided. Joseph Mengele, for example.
I wonder what the future holds for antivaxxers? There's no point arguing with them but it's a curious state. The virus is here to stay and from what it looks like these people will be denied the right to travel - to attend events and possibly even prevent them getting a job.
I've always taken the view that the opinion of these people or your own self on vaccines is unimportant. The requirement to have the vaccine is for the greater good of the population at large. The fact is we could not have carried on without a mass immunisation program the virus would have brought the country to its knees. In our lifetime we have been lucky to not have a war draught or anything of that magnitude and personal peril but we have been asked to step up and have a jab. Not much to ask really is it?
What I do find irritating is that those of us who have had the vaccine and yes acknowledged that there may be a risk in doing so we have stepped up and done what is basically a civil duty but these cloud shouters will ultimately benefit from our actions effectively stealing their own safety without having contributed to the effort personally.
We will see what winter brings but I do fear for those that are going into the season totally unprotected. One thing we haven't seen yet is how the next wave of variants will develop. We could be lucky and the virus continues to remain relatively stable but there could well be a very severe variant crops up.
Its a curious position to take anyway I have a pal that reels off all these copy and paste misinformation stats. He's in the age group where you don't want to be running the risk. Unfortunately him and all the other "enlightened" folk will be getting a chance to test their theories over this winter when it's probable that everyone that hadn't already had covid will get a touch of it.
I've always taken the view that the opinion of these people or your own self on vaccines is unimportant. The requirement to have the vaccine is for the greater good of the population at large. The fact is we could not have carried on without a mass immunisation program the virus would have brought the country to its knees. In our lifetime we have been lucky to not have a war draught or anything of that magnitude and personal peril but we have been asked to step up and have a jab. Not much to ask really is it?
What I do find irritating is that those of us who have had the vaccine and yes acknowledged that there may be a risk in doing so we have stepped up and done what is basically a civil duty but these cloud shouters will ultimately benefit from our actions effectively stealing their own safety without having contributed to the effort personally.
We will see what winter brings but I do fear for those that are going into the season totally unprotected. One thing we haven't seen yet is how the next wave of variants will develop. We could be lucky and the virus continues to remain relatively stable but there could well be a very severe variant crops up.
Its a curious position to take anyway I have a pal that reels off all these copy and paste misinformation stats. He's in the age group where you don't want to be running the risk. Unfortunately him and all the other "enlightened" folk will be getting a chance to test their theories over this winter when it's probable that everyone that hadn't already had covid will get a touch of it.
RipTrip1 said:
Glad you were able to souce a comprehensive lis....oh wait, you provided one, then gave up. Your one provided doesn't even count.
https://www.healthline.com/health/hiv-aids/early-s...
Early symptoms of HIV
The early signs of HIV may appear as symptoms similar to those caused by the flu. These can include:
headache
fever
tiredness
swollen lymph nodes
sore throat
thrush
rash
muscle and joint pain
ulcers in the mouth
ulcers on the genitals
night sweats
diarrhea
Sorry, you lose, better luck next time! Anyone else care to challenge Ex Lead Scientist of Pfizer: Mr Yeadon?
Yes there are symptoms but not for all all. You were the one that made the outrageous statement..https://www.healthline.com/health/hiv-aids/early-s...
Early symptoms of HIV
The early signs of HIV may appear as symptoms similar to those caused by the flu. These can include:
headache
fever
tiredness
swollen lymph nodes
sore throat
thrush
rash
muscle and joint pain
ulcers in the mouth
ulcers on the genitals
night sweats
diarrhea
Sorry, you lose, better luck next time! Anyone else care to challenge Ex Lead Scientist of Pfizer: Mr Yeadon?
RipTrip1 said:
Never in history has a virus spread easily with zero symptoms. .
HIV actually after infection sits in the body for years with no symptoms.Some Rhinovirus aka common cold, spread predominantly through asymptomatic spread.
I think what you meant to say was there is no virus that spreads 100% asymptomatic, but you didn't your statement is vague as best.
Common colds spread easily with zero symptoms..
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