Does anyone know an Anti Covid vaxxer?

[Teddy Lop]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

This line is trotted out a lot but my understanding is that it's pure drivel. Sure, this vaccine has been made in record time, but although a normal vaccine might take 10 years to develop, they are still only monitoring the effects on people for a few months. So if you are part of the vaccine trial, and die a year later, the vaccine makers won't know about it anyway. Because vaccines never throw up long term issues, just short term issues, and that's all they are looking for.

Vaccines take years to develop because you have to recruit and pay 50K people for trials, which takes time and money. In this case, you have hundreds of thousands of people volunteering to be part of the trial, which is cost free. In addition, every single person at Pfizer or wherever is working on this and nothing else. They can afford that because the take up of the vaccine is basically the whole world. Whereas most vaccines target a small group, like people travelling to a certain country needing yellow fever.

People who think it's not safe because it's been done in record time really shouldn't buy a mass produced car that is made from scratch by 500 workers on a production line in 4 hours, but should be buying a Morgan built buy half a dozen people over 3 weeks or whatever. Because obviously, a car built so quickly can't be safe!!

There's a world of difference between believing its not safe and not (yet) believing its safe.

You car analogy assembly time has no relevence, a better one might be two models one of which has been proven and crash tested many times and one not so.

[Mack11]

I have not read the whole thread but the vaccine is really to help the elderly population and those with underlying health conditions.... the rest of us appear to be able to shake off the current variants.

My younger wife has the flu jab, I never do as I say stuff like “ Ill sweat it out”...she argues its not just for me but those I come in contact with too which I never really thought about.

If I was in my twenties, I could think why should I take it and risk an unknown longterm effect and if I kill off some of these long living PHers and buy their houses and cars for cheaper

So I think my point is that its in the interest of our aging population ( Mum/ Dad/ Grandma/Grandad) for us to collectively take the vaccine reduce the spread, save lives and risk the small chance of a potential longterm effect.

[Driller]

Clifford Chambers said:

I'm doing it and so is my wife, largely so you can get back to your practise properly.

No need to thank us, I'll take it as read.

You’ll have to excuse me as your reply is rather too subtle for me. Why are you taking it “largely” for my work and why do you think this will help?

[Skyedriver]

Mack11 said:

I have not read the whole thread but the vaccine is really to help the elderly population and those with underlying health conditions.... the rest of us appear to be able to shake off the current variants.

My younger wife has the flu jab, I never do as I say stuff like “ Ill sweat it out”...she argues its not just for me but those I come in contact with too which I never really thought about.

If I was in my twenties, I could think why should I take it and risk an unknown longterm effect and if I kill off some of these long living PHers and buy their houses and cars for cheaper

So I think my point is that its in the interest of our aging population ( Mum/ Dad/ Grandma/Grandad) for us to collectively take the vaccine reduce the spread, save lives and risk the small chance of a potential longterm effect.

I haven't read the whole thread either. There are plenty of younger people who have died of CV19 so it's not just the elderly although they, the overweight, diabetes sufferers and people of certain ethnic origins appear to be more susceptible.
My wife works in the NHS, gets her flu jab every year now, I'm 67 had a flu jab about 11 year ago, wasn't well afterwards and have refused it ever since despite suffering mild asthma, being 67 and a wife who could be a olympic pesterer.

I was/is an antivaxxer but was persuaded (forced/shamed) into accepting it. At 67 if something affect s me in maybe 5 or 10 years so be it. Past caring, just want out of this lockdown situation. For someone in their 20's or 30's I'd be a little worried about long term affects.

[V1nce Fox]

Not anti vaccine, but very much anti the potential for this to be the first link in a chain of control. Flame away.

[HustleRussell]

I know at least a few of my friends won’t take the vaccine. They are 30ish and just don’t think they need it enough to overlook whatever risks they perceive (varying degrees of bonkers).

I learned this morning that some friends of my Mum won’t. They do need it. They are all obese drinkers and smokers. Their eldest is recovering from a heart attack at the age of 36. They’re a large family and I wouldn’t be surprised if most or all of them end up refusing it.

[anonymous-user]

If you accept UK deaths from COVID stand at 122k - and have not been manipulated upwards for political reasons - you can use that number to conclude anything from nothing to worry about to abject blind panic.

• 122k < 0.18% of the population - tiny number - I don't give a st

• 122k - 20% of the usual 700k annual UK death toll - sounds bad - I'm tempted to be scared

• 122k - 20% of the usual 700k annual UK death toll - doesn't sound too severe - most of them will have been old or fat, numbers will return to normal next year anyway - nothing to worry about

• 122k - 3% death rate - I should be terrified again. Compound 3% per year - the population will halve inside 25 years - nightmare (hard enough finding decent tradesmen already)

• 122k - 3% death rate, population collapse - not that bothered - most of them will have been on benefits anyway.

I'm in my 50s, not too old, not too fat. Asthma under control. I fancy my chances without the COVID vaccine. Never bothered with the flu vaccine.

I do realise that COVID vaccine passports are almost inevitable now. You can see even from this thread that many (presumably) intelligent people are happy to go along with something they don't fully agree with just for an easy life. All for the reward of a trip to the sun or the shops, with only having to show their papers (or electronic equivalent) at every checkpoint. And a few would be more than happy to have people vaccinated against their will - and we do know where that leads. Look to Germany. Again.

I just don't want to be complicit with that. I know my refusal will be seen as stroppy, childish and cutting off my nose to spite my face - rather than principled. So be it.

[V1nce Fox]

Difficult said:

If you accept UK deaths from COVID stand at 122k - and have not been manipulated upwards for political reasons - you can use that number to conclude anything from nothing to worry about to abject blind panic.

• 122k < 0.18% of the population - tiny number - I don't give a st

• 122k - 20% of the usual 700k annual UK death toll - sounds bad - I'm tempted to be scared

• 122k - 20% of the usual 700k annual UK death toll - doesn't sound too severe - most of them will have been old or fat, numbers will return to normal next year anyway - nothing to worry about

• 122k - 3% death rate - I should be terrified again. Compound 3% per year - the population will halve inside 25 years - nightmare (hard enough finding decent tradesmen already)

• 122k - 3% death rate, population collapse - not that bothered - most of them will have been on benefits anyway.

I'm in my 50s, not too old, not too fat. Asthma under control. I fancy my chances without the COVID vaccine. Never bothered with the flu vaccine.

I do realise that COVID vaccine passports are almost inevitable now. You can see even from this thread that many (presumably) intelligent people are happy to go along with something they don't fully agree with just for an easy life. All for the reward of a trip to the sun or the shops, with only having to show their papers (or electronic equivalent) at every checkpoint. And a few would be more than happy to have people vaccinated against their will - and we do know where that leads. Look to Germany. Again.

I just don't want to be complicit with that. I know my refusal will be seen as stroppy, childish and cutting off my nose to spite my face - rather than principled. So be it.

Same.

[105.4]

V1nce Fox said:

Not anti vaccine, but very much anti the potential for this to be the first link in a chain of control. Flame away.

That’s pretty much the point I was trying to make earlier, but you have done so using far few words.

[Uggers]

Difficult said:

I just don't want to be complicit with that. I know my refusal will be seen as stroppy, childish and cutting off my nose to spite my face - rather than principled. So be it.

Username checks out

I can completely see your point of view. I probably am one of those who don't agree with it and will end up getting it just to have my life back. Doesn't make me happy about it at all and my ire will be directed at the people that forced me into it come the next election.

But after 12 months I've just been worn down by it all now and priorities for my teenage son who is really suffering with the isolation are above my own principles at this moment in time.

[Heathwood]

I won’t be having the vaccine. Not because I’m an anti-vaxxer, but because, as mentioned on a previous CV thread, I’m a massive needle phobic (Trypanophobia). I would not be able to physically or mentally sit whilst someone approached me with a needle. It churns my stomach just seeing constant images and footage of injections on the news over the past months.

It’s stupid and annoying, but it’s real. Phobias are often not entirely logical and easily misunderstood by those that hold no fears. If the cure to this virus was, for example, to be shut in a coffin full of spiders for 20 minutes, how many would take it up? Well I’m not afraid of spiders or dark, restrictive places so I’d be happy to do this. Needles on the other hand. Err, no. A pretty stupid comparison? Maybe, but I’m just trying to explain things in a way that more people might understand my fear.

I am however concerned that I’ll be categorised with anti-vaxxers and also the affect on potential restrictions not having the vaccine will have on my day to day life. In this latter respect, and as an aside, I’m not altogether comfortable with an apparent lack of choice but to have the vaccine. Yes I know it’s being ‘offered’ and you can of course refuse, but if you then can’t go to a pub, restaurant, go on holiday or potentially even get a job, does that really leave much of a choice?

[anonymous-user]

Uggers said:

... my ire will be directed at the people that forced me into it come the next election.

You are assuming there will be a future election. Cancelled due to COVID-24 :-}

I fully understand the desire to do what it takes to try get back to normal. My own principles may very well bend at some point (probably when I try to explain to my wife why she's going on holiday on her own). But it's a slippery slope - once you let one principle go for short term convenience, it's a short step to going all-in zealot. I may end up running one of the forced-vaccination camps. Hope I get a nice Hugo Boss uniform.

[HustleRussell]

I realise that Covid has empowered authorities to control the populace in ways which they haven’t before, the possible vaccination passport currently causing concern. I understand the erosion of civil liberties which we take for granted.

I get it.

However, when I ask somebody who is concerned about this what the possible motivation and endgame would be for this, they don’t seem to understand the significance of that question? I have certainly never heard a specific idea of what the endgame is, only some vague notions about ‘control’.

[V1nce Fox]

HustleRussell said:

I realise that Covid has empowered authorities to control the populace in ways which they haven’t before, the possible vaccination passport currently causing concern. I understand the erosion of civil liberties which we take for granted.

I get it.

However, when I ask somebody who is concerned about this what the possible motivation and endgame would be for this, they don’t seem to understand the significance of that question? I have certainly never heard a specific idea of what the endgame is, only some vague notions about ‘control’.

I guess for me it comes down to two things: firstly we can look to other countries where digital currency, social credit scores and so on are now established. Secondly, think about the current government and ask yourself if they wouldn’t do the same, given the opportunity.

There’s a lot of publicly declared intentions out there about the fourth industrial revolution and so on, all of which are clearly stated and agreed to in principle by our government.

The whole thing feels like they’re on commission.

[HustleRussell]

V1nce Fox said:

I guess for me it comes down to two things: firstly we can look to other countries where digital currency, social credit scores and so on are now established. Secondly, think about the current government and ask yourself if they wouldn’t do the same, given the opportunity.

There’s a lot of publicly declared intentions out there about the fourth industrial revolution and so on, all of which are clearly stated and agreed to in principle by our government.

The whole thing feels like they’re on commission.

Thanks for answering my question.

Call me naive but personally I don’t expect that the Covid measures are a Trojan horse for something else.

[anonymous-user]

Heathwood said:

I won’t be having the vaccine. Not because I’m an anti-vaxxer, but because, as mentioned on a previous CV thread, I’m a massive needle phobic (Trypanophobia).

I hate needles as the majority do, i don't have your label, but i have to have blood tests and injections. i just don't look, after the 20 times you still know it is happening but it gets easier. Unless you do something now you may end up paying with your life if you don't get over it.

[V1nce Fox]

HustleRussell said:

Thanks for answering my question.

Call me naive but personally I don’t expect that the Covid measures are a Trojan horse for something else.

And thank you for not name calling or insulting me for my concerns.

[Heathwood]

The Spruce Goose said:

Heathwood said:

I won’t be having the vaccine. Not because I’m an anti-vaxxer, but because, as mentioned on a previous CV thread, I’m a massive needle phobic (Trypanophobia).

I hate needles as the majority do, i don't have your label, but i have to have blood tests and injections. i just don't look, after the 20 times you still know it is happening but it gets easier. Unless you do something now you may end up paying with your life if you don't get over it.

Ok, I’ll get over it. Thanks for the pep talk.

[Uggers]

HustleRussell said:

I realise that Covid has empowered authorities to control the populace in ways which they haven’t before, the possible vaccination passport currently causing concern. I understand the erosion of civil liberties which we take for granted.

I get it.

However, when I ask somebody who is concerned about this what the possible motivation and endgame would be for this, they don’t seem to understand the significance of that question? I have certainly never heard a specific idea of what the endgame is, only some vague notions about ‘control’.

A healthy democracy relies on the government ruling by consent from the population. But if they can keep a population scared and reliant on a government for answers to everything. Maybe that fosters the idea that more government is a good idea. What politician doesn't want more politicians or politics?

Maybe this is what manifests itself as a conspiracy to some people. I don't think there is any central point of orchestration, but a general correlation of views that takes us in another direction?

I really have no idea. just throwing ideas out there.

I do know that answers to many problems isn't more politics or politicians though

[HustleRussell]

The Spruce Goose said:

Heathwood said:

I won’t be having the vaccine. Not because I’m an anti-vaxxer, but because, as mentioned on a previous CV thread, I’m a massive needle phobic (Trypanophobia).

I hate needles as the majority do, i don't have your label, but i have to have blood tests and injections. i just don't look, after the 20 times you still know it is happening but it gets easier. Unless you do something now you may end up paying with your life if you don't get over it.

You think that a phobia of needles and ‘hating needles’ are the same thing?