Does anyone know an Anti Covid vaxxer?

[anonymous-user]

Difficult said:

V6 Pushfit said:

I don’t think you get it at all. If one million caught it and 999,999 died what relevance is the population number?? It only serves to show the number that haven’t caught it yet.

If only 1 million out of 8 billion catch it, then it's not very infectious. I'd take my chances. But if it was 1 million out of a population of 1 million, then it's a bit different. You can't just ignore the world population number to make the statistics match your own level of terror.

In our example if one million out of 8 billion catch it then there’s 7.99 billion who simply haven’t caught it yet at the 100% death rate. As I said population numbers give a completely fake conclusion with a virus.

I would have thought that a year into it people would have grasped it all, but clearly not.

[shost]

Difficult said:

If only 1 million out of 8 billion catch it, then it's not very infectious. I'd take my chances. But if it was 1 million out of a population of 1 million, then it's a bit different. You can't just ignore the world population number to make the statistics match your own level of terror.

I’m with V6 on this. On the first day a COVID was found in UK at that moment the UK COVID survival rate was zero. But it wrong to keep quoting that as UK death rate. It’s nonsensical to calculate death rate at point X from a population N. You can only calculate those who have tested positive. If you do then you have a 3% chance of dying.

There might be those from low socioeconomic classes who can’t get tested but I’d assume most people would have access to a test. Even if a fifth of cases were unrecorded that’s still 2.4% risk of death. Way higher than any serious vaccine complication

[shost]

Driller said:

Dentist here for what it’s worth.

I won’t be having the vaccine unless absolutely forced to, for eg being allowed to travel internationally. Even then I wouldn’t be bloody happy about it.

Reason? I find it very strange that a vaccine should be pushed so hard for something that effects such a tiny amount of people. I don’t know why they’re doing it, it doesn’t make sense and that makes me uneasy enough to want to avoid it.

If 1% of people are vulnerable then vaccinate them and confine them but let the rest of us catch it, get immune and get on with it including our kids.

Appart from that I’m neither old nor sick so there’s no point.

Hi Driller, are you still providing clinical care? If so what are your patients and nurses saying?

Where are you calculating 1% of population vulnerable to it?

Edited by shost on Monday 1st March 10:56

[shost]

gregs656 said:

I have 1 full on it’s a conspiracy 5g bill gates nutter on Facebook. Someone I went to school with.

Mostly people I know are very positive about the vaccine. I would take it no worries.

My current feeling is that, assuming it continues to mutate beyond the original scope of the vaccine, as the virus becomes endemic the idea of vaccinating the younger populations is going to lose support quickly, it’s not practical or cost effective.

Actually it’s the mutation side that has me reluctantly realising why lockdown continues. If we allow the virus to run around unchecked the chances are so much higher of mutation strains that effect the young.

I take it you haven’t tried to engage with the Fb friend or have they been dismissive?

[AW111]

Difficult said:

You are assuming there will be a future election. Cancelled due to COVID-24 :-}

I fully understand the desire to do what it takes to try get back to normal. My own principles may very well bend at some point (probably when I try to explain to my wife why she's going on holiday on her own). But it's a slippery slope - once you let one principle go for short term convenience, it's a short step to going all-in zealot. I may end up running one of the forced-vaccination camps. Hope I get a nice Hugo Boss uniform.

Godwin #5

[shost]

Heathwood said:

I won’t be having the vaccine. Not because I’m an anti-vaxxer, but because, as mentioned on a previous CV thread, I’m a massive needle phobic (Trypanophobia).

I would hope and expect that if you are effected that you’ll be granted a exception certificate to whatever is devised.

However, bring me on to the passport suggestion. Personally I can’t see that being enforced by the government. We can’t even enforce face masks whether you agree or not (I didn’t at first as didn’t protect wearer, but do now as it protects others).

Maybe we will go back to something like smokers experienced with smoking areas in planes and restaurants.

Would those who don’t want it be vaccinated of your own volition be happy to have segregated areas? Just like smokers did in the past indoors and much like they do now outside.

[shost]

dirky dirk said:

Yes my brother in law

He’s a knob

His mum had cancer and both his parents are elderly

And he’s telling them they mustn’t have it.

His mrs is very embarrassed about him.
He spouts claptrap about everything.

Cyder - well done for challenging.

Dirk sounds like your bro in laws Mrs had some work to do. It’s one thing to not want it but telling others vulnerable to it not to is unfortunate. Have they ignored his advice?

[anonymous-user]

shost said:

I’m with V6 on this. On the first day a COVID was found in UK at that moment the UK COVID survival rate was zero. But it wrong to keep quoting that as UK death rate. It’s nonsensical to calculate death rate at point X from a population N. You can only calculate those who have tested positive. If you do then you have a 3% chance of dying.

There might be those from low socioeconomic classes who can’t get tested but I’d assume most people would have access to a test. Even if a fifth of cases were unrecorded that’s still 2.4% risk of death. Way higher than any serious vaccine complication

Yes and some keep coming up with with nonsensical figures ‘showing’ Covid has almost no effect on the annual death rate over and above flu. It has in fact had an effect, plus because of lockdowns, distancing etc etc a good 9 out of 10 haven’t had it YET. If/when they do it’s about 3-4% chance they won’t make it through (as we are worse than the world average of 3%) and if they are hospitalised around 30% chance they won’t make it. I don’t know what the hospitalisation rate is but presume most people die in hospital so it must be around 10%.

[shost]

grumbledoak said:

A 3% CFR is very much at the high end of calculations. The CFR 95% confidence interval for Europe is 1.1 to 3.2 - call it 2.2 -
http://www.cebm.net/covid-19/global-covid-19-case-...

And this is the case fatality rate - people actually sick enough to see a doctor. The infection fatality rate is estimated to be 0.55% - a bit less than flu.

All very age dependent, obviously.

Interesting data, need to take a good look, but my first thoughts are that the less effected countries are wealthier or more sparsely populated. Still this county the death rate remains very high which is highly inconvenient to all of us

[anonymous-user]

shost said:

Would those who don’t want it be vaccinated of your own volition be happy to have segregated areas?

You mean like a leper colony? Maybe you'd have us ring a bell if we get too close to your clean world? We could have our own shops, money and everything.

Or are you thinking of something a bit more 1940s?

Godwin #6 or thereabouts.

[shost]

V6 Pushfit said:

Yes and some keep coming up with with nonsensical figures ‘showing’ Covid has almost no effect on the annual death rate over and above flu. It has in fact had an effect, plus because of lockdowns, distancing etc etc a good 9 out of 10 haven’t had it YET. If/when they do it’s about 3-4% chance they won’t make it through (as we are worse than the world average of 3%) and if they are hospitalised around 30% chance they won’t make it. I don’t know what the hospitalisation rate is but presume most people die in hospital so it must be around 10%.

Thank you, I calculate 10% (440,000) cases admitted, so that would equate to around 3/10 dying.

And death rate is headline grabbing. However those admitted can spend anywhere from a few hours to several weeks in hospital, and the long term effects are real. Several colleagues have been effected by minor things such as loss of smell/taste, persistent tiredness and breathlessness for done weeks after infection, let alone long COVID which has effected at least one colleague.

[shost]

Difficult said:

You mean like a leper colony? Maybe you'd have us ring a bell if we get too close to your clean world? We could have our own shops, money and everything.

Or are you thinking of something a bit more 1940s?

Godwin #6 or thereabouts.

No I mean like simple smoking areas that were in use till relatively recently in restaurants and planes. Just so that those who can’t have a vaccine say can be socially distanced from those who don’t want to be? I believed smokers used the same money and used the same shops.

[Terminator X]

AW111 said:

I'm not going to do that.

I take offence at people making spurious comparisons between covid vaccination (however badly mishandled) and the deliberate slaughter of millions of people by a genocidal regime. It's folly, and contributes nothing.
To then extend that to accusing people who aren't anti-covax of wanting that outcome and wanting people to be treated badly is stupid and paranoid.

I'm not accusing you of either of those things.


Regarding Covid generally, I have been gobsmacked by the ineptitude, backflips and incompetence of the UK govt.
It's no surprise that UK residents don't trust what the government says - I wouldn't trust Boris on any subject except his ambition.


I'm in Australia (Melbourne) which has handled Covid quite differently.
We had lockdown for most of 2020, and guess what?

The economy hasn't collapsed.
There hasn't been a crisis of mental health. Nor suicide.
People (including me) have generally been able to access normal medical care, including hospitalisation.
The country hasn't turned into a dictatorship.
People are unhappy, but on the whole trust that the govt is trying their best.

This is true for a number of SE Asian countries.

When I'm offered the vaccine, I'll be taking it, not purely for myself, but because some of my family are in the extreme high-risk category.


I would be devastated to pass on an infection to someone else because I refused to wear a mask or get vaccinated.

Do you respect a person's right to choose though?

If you are scared get vaccinated. Surely a no brainer as the already low risk of dying from covid is made so low that it may as well be zero. Makes no odds surely if others chose to not take the vaccine.

TX.

[Terminator X]

V6 Pushfit said:

The population number is irrelevant, so therefore are your main points.

I know 4 people that have died from Covid, and none from a bee sting, dog bite of lightning. So you’d better get your eraser out and start the calculations again.

Yet I know of no one, go figure.

TX.

[Terminator X]

shost said:

Difficult said:

If only 1 million out of 8 billion catch it, then it's not very infectious. I'd take my chances. But if it was 1 million out of a population of 1 million, then it's a bit different. You can't just ignore the world population number to make the statistics match your own level of terror.

I’m with V6 on this. On the first day a COVID was found in UK at that moment the UK COVID survival rate was zero. But it wrong to keep quoting that as UK death rate. It’s nonsensical to calculate death rate at point X from a population N. You can only calculate those who have tested positive. If you do then you have a 3% chance of dying.

There might be those from low socioeconomic classes who can’t get tested but I’d assume most people would have access to a test. Even if a fifth of cases were unrecorded that’s still 2.4% risk of death. Way higher than any serious vaccine complication

That is utter garbage as even the Govt admit one third of people with covid have not one symptom. 80% of people with covid have either zero, mild or flu like symptoms. People wandering around living a normal life won't be getting tested, comprendez.

TX.

[anonymous-user]

shost said:

Just so that those who can’t have a vaccine say can be socially distanced from those who don’t want to be?

There won't be too many in that boat after the full vaccine roll out has been done. But, yeah, the trypanophobiacs and the like can have their own special isolation areas if they want them and the shops / pubs / airlines can see the economic benefit. Or the government legislates to keep things fair like they do with disabled access, etc. I've got no problem with that at all. But I might get a bit annoyed if it turns out I'm going to be the one being isolated against my will.

[grumbledoak]

shost said:

No I mean like simple smoking areas that were in use till relatively recently in restaurants and planes. Just so that those who can’t have a vaccine say can be socially distanced from those who don’t want to be? I believed smokers used the same money and used the same shops.

A smoker can go without a cigarette for an hour to be in the restaurant with their friends.

How do you expect the unvaccinated to “be vaccinated” for an hour to join theirs? Hold their breath?

[Don1]

I'm on the fence - 2 reasons. 1 I react badly to the live flu shots and 2 Mrs Don1 is a pharma trial auditor and can't understand how it went through so quickly.

But I want to get out, go travel again....

[Clifford Chambers]

Don1 said:

I'm on the fence - 2 reasons. 1 I react badly to the live flu shots and 2 Mrs Don1 is a pharma trial auditor and can't understand how it went through so quickly.

But I want to get out, go travel again....

Was Mrs D involved with the trial? What specifically is worrying her?

[anonymous-user]

Terminator X said:

shost said:

Difficult said:

If only 1 million out of 8 billion catch it, then it's not very infectious. I'd take my chances. But if it was 1 million out of a population of 1 million, then it's a bit different. You can't just ignore the world population number to make the statistics match your own level of terror.

I’m with V6 on this. On the first day a COVID was found in UK at that moment the UK COVID survival rate was zero. But it wrong to keep quoting that as UK death rate. It’s nonsensical to calculate death rate at point X from a population N. You can only calculate those who have tested positive. If you do then you have a 3% chance of dying.

There might be those from low socioeconomic classes who can’t get tested but I’d assume most people would have access to a test. Even if a fifth of cases were unrecorded that’s still 2.4% risk of death. Way higher than any serious vaccine complication

That is utter garbage as even the Govt admit one third of people with covid have not one symptom. 80% of people with covid have either zero, mild or flu like symptoms. People wandering around living a normal life won't be getting tested, comprendez.

TX.

You haven’t said much there that shost hasn’t already said, and it boils down to the point that yes there are a lot of mild cases but they are still cases and a % of the worser cases end up in hospital and some die. The % that die is higher in the UK than the world average, much higher. But why???

Is it that we are/were a travel hub? Is it the NHS not being as good as we thought? Is it our genetics/climate? Or is it our attitude as a nation that we can’t abide by any rules or finally is it Govts fault in late implemented and appallingly run ‘track and trace’ and lack of effective strategy?

In the last point the Brazilian who they are trying to find just happened to ‘not fill out a registration form’. I mean WTF??

Either which way the UK seems less able to have shaken off the virus waves and less able to save those who fall seriously ill. We’ve been hammered by it. New Zealand locked down a major city for 4 cases, we just do a few phone calls and if there’s no answer put a tick in the ‘no answer’ box and consider it sorted.

Have the vaccine folks it’s the way out of this for the UK.