Becoming deliberately less bulky in middle age.
Discussion
Prof Prolapse said:
I don't wish to be rude, and I'm sorry for addressing the elephant in the room (not literally I hope), but I cant make this add up.
If at your thinnest you were 15% bodyfat at 13 stone (82kg) at your height, that's well above average muscle. It's subjective, but unless you've got body dysmophia you simply cannot be considered "gaunt", that's pretty broad.
If you're saying you're currently at 5ft 9.5", 14stone (88kg) and it's not a huge percentage of body fat, then you must be lifting absolutely loads of weights and on a properly decent diet already?
In which case, I don't understand why you need anyone's advice...
Not quite. At my leanest I will have been sub-12%, but that's many years ago. In my 50s the leanest I have been is 13.2% I was 52 actually and yes, lifting a lot. I also looked gaunt, as I said. Low body fat and diminishing subcutaneous fat does that for you.If at your thinnest you were 15% bodyfat at 13 stone (82kg) at your height, that's well above average muscle. It's subjective, but unless you've got body dysmophia you simply cannot be considered "gaunt", that's pretty broad.
If you're saying you're currently at 5ft 9.5", 14stone (88kg) and it's not a huge percentage of body fat, then you must be lifting absolutely loads of weights and on a properly decent diet already?
In which case, I don't understand why you need anyone's advice...
I am over 14 stone today (which is is 89kg) and yes, I am on a half-decent diet already. My OP was not about how to lose fat, it was about losing overall mass without becoming fat. I need to exercise and lift weights to stay lean and when I do that my body seems to want to be 14 stone.
I would never presume that I don't need anyone else's advice, on any subject. There are some knowledgeable people on this forum. You've just got to get past the "it's only calories in vs calories out" stuff.
RC1807 said:
Louis Balfour said:
To be absolutely honest, the time when I found it easiest to keep weight down was in the 1990s, when I used to go clubbing a lot. Marlborough Lights and Evian are clearly super foods.
Well, yeah... smoking can reduce appetite. 
As soon as I stopped smoking 40 / day, I ballooned!By about March 2013 I'd dropped from 115kg to 89kg. I did that by stopping drinking alcohol completely for 3 months, then limiting alcohol to a couple of units / week thereafter, eating healthily, going to the gym 3x / week, and swimming 3x / week.
However, when I was 89kg, I think as you commented, you looked gaunt. So did I. Colleagues asked me if I was being treated for cancer, and that was after more than 7 months' effort!
Sadly for me my wieght loss didn't last, and I becamse complacent, drinking waaaaaay too much lager, and my weight increased back up to 110kg again! f
k.I knuckled down again to exercising and diet in Autumn 2020 after a very bad lockdown alcohol wise, and reduced my weight to 104kg. Then the gym / pool closed for another lockdown and I went back to 110 over Christmas / New Year!
I'm lucky now that our gyms / swimming pools have reopened where I live, and I'm back down to 101kg this week, so -9kg since the New Year. I know from my gym body scan this week that I've gained a LOT of muscle whilst shifting more than 13kg of body fat, so far.
I think that whilst getting back to 89kg or so would be good mentally, I'll be happy at around 95kg, so I don't have the cancer comments again.
I'm 50 and 5' 10" / 179cm.
TLDR; it takes more effort to lose / maintain weight loss when we're of a "certain age".
ORD said:
I’m 5’11 and look pretty gaunt if I drop below about 84kg, so it’s not completely bonkers.
I’m only modestly muscular and no more than OK at lifting - 165/130/190kg are my best squat, bench, deadlift numbers. Of those, only the bench is remotely respectable.
Do you even lift, Bro? I’m only modestly muscular and no more than OK at lifting - 165/130/190kg are my best squat, bench, deadlift numbers. Of those, only the bench is remotely respectable.
Edited to add the wink, in case you try to duff me up now that I am old and feeble.
Edited by Louis Balfour on Friday 12th March 16:44
didelydoo said:
Basically-
Energy balance determines wether you gain or lose weight.
Macronutrient split/foods we eat determines body composition.
Lifting preserves muscle whilst in an energy deficit. (Not to mention the multitude of other benefits, particularly to older populations)
Cardio is for health and longevity (will also help with a multitude of other things)
Taken all together- the optimal way to lose weight is to be in a calorie deficit; eat a high protein diet (with carbs and fats split however you want them- yes, it really makes no difference to *fat* loss- plenty studies backing this up); lift weights to ensure muscle is retained and it is fat that is lost; do some kind of cardio for health and longevity.
You can miss out some of the above parts and still lose weight and make progress. But.... if you want optimal success and health, cover them all.
I agree with you. But I have in the past tried being lean principally from lifting and diet and never quite managed it. I had to add in cardio.Energy balance determines wether you gain or lose weight.
Macronutrient split/foods we eat determines body composition.
Lifting preserves muscle whilst in an energy deficit. (Not to mention the multitude of other benefits, particularly to older populations)
Cardio is for health and longevity (will also help with a multitude of other things)
Taken all together- the optimal way to lose weight is to be in a calorie deficit; eat a high protein diet (with carbs and fats split however you want them- yes, it really makes no difference to *fat* loss- plenty studies backing this up); lift weights to ensure muscle is retained and it is fat that is lost; do some kind of cardio for health and longevity.
You can miss out some of the above parts and still lose weight and make progress. But.... if you want optimal success and health, cover them all.
didelydoo said:
Louis Balfour said:
I agree with you. But I have in the past tried being lean principally from lifting and diet and never quite managed it. I had to add in cardio.
Ideally you want some form of cardio anyway.I can get lean with no cardio and just lifting, just a case of adjusting diet. But, I feel better if I’m fitter- results in more energy, a better capacity to produce energy, and thus more likely to burn calories. It’s a win win.
Square Leg said:
Prof Prolapse said:
I'm still at a loss how anyone of average height can be 10-20kg overweight and be told they look so gaunt they look like they have cancer.
You guys either have baggy faces or very fat friends.
When I stand next to young Balfour he does indeed look gaunt.You guys either have baggy faces or very fat friends.
And short.
But I would agree that I look gaunt when standing next to you. It's a relative thing.
Anyway, have you been soaking your micro-box in Dettol in preparation? It's drawing nearer....
Square Leg said:
Louis Balfour said:
He wasn't talking about me.
But I would agree that I look gaunt when standing next to you. It's a relative thing.
Anyway, have you been soaking your micro-box in Dettol in preparation? It's drawing nearer....
Box not needed - just tuck some lockdown folds in the right place and I’m protected.But I would agree that I look gaunt when standing next to you. It's a relative thing.
Anyway, have you been soaking your micro-box in Dettol in preparation? It's drawing nearer....
Looking forward to seeing you play in the Sunday family friendly matches...
spikeyhead said:
gregs656 said:
didelydoo said:
Everyone is fatter than they think- everyone is ‘5kg away from abs’ - whereas the reality is usually double or triple that 
I hope that’s not me. I have got pretty close a couple of times but I’ve never had proper no tense required abs. I’ll take another crack at it this year though anyway. My plan is to cut in may and see where I land.
gregs656 said:
Rowing, swimming and gymnastics also. I guess track cycling too.
I don't think many people would hold up distance runners or sprinters as the pinnacle of the athletic body.
Swimming perhaps. Rowing and cycling can make for some odd body shapes, unless combined with other things.I don't think many people would hold up distance runners or sprinters as the pinnacle of the athletic body.
Prof Prolapse said:
True, but I'd speculate Diet coke is probably the second most consumed commercial drink in human history.
So sside from the acids being mildly corrosive (but probably no more than fruit juice, maybe less) the same empirical evidence applies.
It's perfectly safe.
Although somewhat addictive.
I love a double Espresso. I like the small cup, makes me feel like a big man.
The caffeine may be, I am not sure about the artificial sweeteners.So sside from the acids being mildly corrosive (but probably no more than fruit juice, maybe less) the same empirical evidence applies.
It's perfectly safe.
Although somewhat addictive.
I love a double Espresso. I like the small cup, makes me feel like a big man.
hyphen said:
popeyewhite said:
gregs656 said:
Louis Balfour said:
The caffeine may be, I am not sure about the artificial sweeteners.
Aspartame has been studied extensively. I suspect the sweeteners in high quantities will f
k you up, and the two Acids in the drink will help your Dentist purchase his next Porsche. And the E number will give you ADHD.But Zero Calories! and most people use coke zero/diet coke as a filler, and if they didn't have it, they may have a chocolate bar instead, which is not zero calories so possibly a lesser evil, if you don't over do it.
https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/coca-c...
Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 24th March 18:20
tting than just eating and stting.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Take a look at this. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC63635...
If you speak to nutritionists and dieticians that deal with gut disorders, they usually hold the view that artificial sweeteners are bad for gut health. Stevia is generally the only recommended non-sugar sweetener, but that has a bitter aftertaste.
popeyewhite said:
hyphen said:
Can I ask what your interest is? To go to the lengths of reading the studies.
Quick Google, that's all. First page.hyphen said:
Personal health? Or do you have work/have interests in sonething related to sweetners?
Personal health: I have aspartame in my morning coffee. 
popeyewhite said:
Louis Balfour said:
Don't come running to me when your colon falls out of your arse.
Look, I agree it's filthy stuff but I think it's better than sugar if you have a sweet tooth like me Incidentally, one symptom of gut issues is having a sweet tooth...
I suspect that in years to come there will be more research into artificial sweeteners and they will be discovered to be mostly harmful. I would have a bet with you, but I would worry that when I came to collect you'd be long dead.
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