Goodbye Toyota/ Lexus?
Discussion
After a succession of their products from 2003 to 2013 (Auris Hybrid - IS300H - ES300H), and circa 150K faultless miles in their hybrids, I just cannot see that they will have anything close to market by the time the lease for the ES is up next March.
As a Business user, I would be crackers to buy anything other than a full EV with a 250 mile range. The difference in take home pay would be circa £15K over 3 years.
The Toyota HSD system is very clever technology, but why they have not responded quicker to the changing market only they will know.
I really like the brand, dealers etc but they seem to no longer have the products for me.
If I can get one, I will be going for a Hyundai EV product (5 or Genesis EV).
As a Business user, I would be crackers to buy anything other than a full EV with a 250 mile range. The difference in take home pay would be circa £15K over 3 years.
The Toyota HSD system is very clever technology, but why they have not responded quicker to the changing market only they will know.
I really like the brand, dealers etc but they seem to no longer have the products for me.
If I can get one, I will be going for a Hyundai EV product (5 or Genesis EV).
Edited by Itsallicanafford on Saturday 19th June 07:34
Itsallicanafford said:
The Toyota HSD system is very clever technology, but why they have not responded quicker to the changing market only they will know.
Its a very conscious decision by the heads of Toyota, fundamentally the top management of Toyota are like many on here, they simply don't believe battery EVs will offer the flexibility consumer are use to with combustion cars, and are betting consumers will ignore the legislation backed push to battery EVs. https://insideevs.com/news/514693/toyota-too-soon-...
Apparently Jaguar has a massive stock of unsold iPace lying around and employees can get into them for £300/month, and judging by the amount of discounts available on pre-reg ID3s Toyota might be right. I use to think Toyota was mad, but do people remember 3D TVs?
The legislation may be strict at present on stopping combustion car sales but we all know rule/government targets can change on a whim. It wasn't that a long time ago diesels were the go to option.
Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 19th June 08:36
gangzoom said:
The legislation may be strict at present on stopping combustion car sales but we all know rule/government targets can change on a whim. It wasn't that a long time ago diesels were the go to option.
Good point.Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 19th June 08:36
We're now being penalized for buying their "cheap to tax" diesels..
Is the whole world going to go EV?
UK, and even Europe, are quite small on the world map.
Or does Europe produce the most pollutants?
Anyhow, back on topic. I've already said goodbye to Toyota, their build quality has gone downhill.
Edited by Trevor555 on Saturday 19th June 10:51
There also vast areas of the planet where pure EVs will not work as there will be no infrastructure for decades.
Africa, South America,vast pasts of Asia won't be going electric anytime soon.
If Toyota are still making ICE when many others have moved to only electric then Toyota could become the dominant player in the 3rd world.
Also the USA seems in no hurry to go all EV and I think they sell quite a lot over there.
Maybe they just consider Europe to be a smaller part of their global strategy.
Africa, South America,vast pasts of Asia won't be going electric anytime soon.
If Toyota are still making ICE when many others have moved to only electric then Toyota could become the dominant player in the 3rd world.
Also the USA seems in no hurry to go all EV and I think they sell quite a lot over there.
Maybe they just consider Europe to be a smaller part of their global strategy.
bristolracer said:
There also vast areas of the planet where pure EVs will not work as there will be no infrastructure for decades.
Africa, South America,vast pasts of Asia won't be going electric anytime soon.
If Toyota are still making ICE when many others have moved to only electric then Toyota could become the dominant player in the 3rd world.
That makes a lot of sense.Africa, South America,vast pasts of Asia won't be going electric anytime soon.
If Toyota are still making ICE when many others have moved to only electric then Toyota could become the dominant player in the 3rd world.
Itsallicanafford said:
After a succession of their products from 2003 to 2013 (Auris Hybrid - IS300H - ES300H), and circa 150K faultless miles in their hybrids, I just cannot see that they will have anything close to market by the time the lease for the ES is up next March.
As a Business user, I would be crackers to buy anything other than a full EV with a 250 mile range. The difference in take home pay would be circa £15K over 3 years.
The Toyota HSD system is very clever technology, but why they have not responded quicker to the changing market only they will know.
I really like the brand, dealers etc but they seem to no longer have the products for me.
If I can get one, I will be going for a Hyundai EV product (5 or Genesis EV).
The range isnt there yet but how soon a battery upgrade?As a Business user, I would be crackers to buy anything other than a full EV with a 250 mile range. The difference in take home pay would be circa £15K over 3 years.
The Toyota HSD system is very clever technology, but why they have not responded quicker to the changing market only they will know.
I really like the brand, dealers etc but they seem to no longer have the products for me.
If I can get one, I will be going for a Hyundai EV product (5 or Genesis EV).
https://www.whatcar.com/lexus/ux300e/hatchback/rev...
gangzoom said:
Its a very conscious decision by the heads of Toyota, fundamentally the top management of Toyota are like many on here, they simply don't believe battery EVs will offer the flexibility consumer are use to with combustion cars, and are betting consumers will ignore the legislation backed push to battery EVs.
https://insideevs.com/news/514693/toyota-too-soon-...
Apparently Jaguar has a massive stock of unsold iPace lying around and employees can get into them for £300/month, and judging by the amount of discounts available on pre-reg ID3s Toyota might be right. I use to think Toyota was mad, but do people remember 3D TVs?
The legislation may be strict at present on stopping combustion car sales but we all know rule/government targets can change on a whim. It wasn't that a long time ago diesels were the go to option.
They made the same bet with diesel, and eventually they were proved correct. https://insideevs.com/news/514693/toyota-too-soon-...
Apparently Jaguar has a massive stock of unsold iPace lying around and employees can get into them for £300/month, and judging by the amount of discounts available on pre-reg ID3s Toyota might be right. I use to think Toyota was mad, but do people remember 3D TVs?
The legislation may be strict at present on stopping combustion car sales but we all know rule/government targets can change on a whim. It wasn't that a long time ago diesels were the go to option.
Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 19th June 08:36
If you took all the EV subsidies away, they wouldn’t be selling at all. BIK is a huge attractant at the moment, almost at a level of “free car” which is an unsustainable subsidy. And even with massive taxation on ICE, people are still buying them in droves.
A £15k BIK saving over 3 years is huge, but even without this, savings on fuel costs will also be significant. To me, if an EV can give you a circa 250 mile range, for a daily driver, I cannot really see any downsides to an EV as I can charge off road at home.
The UX 300e all feels a little last gen to me although I have driven the hybrid version a few times and it is a nice car. The EV version even has a larger boot.
The UX 300e all feels a little last gen to me although I have driven the hybrid version a few times and it is a nice car. The EV version even has a larger boot.
Every vehicle buyer and user is going to buy or order whatever suits them, preferences may change as road pricing or other taxation changes are made and EV range increases or doesn't, EV's won't always benefit from cheap fuel, the govt is not to lose the fuel tax it gains from petrol and Diesel.
Anyone who's been out on the major routes recently cannot have failed to see the massive amount of cars on our roads, despite all the politician's green promises there isn't going to be anywhere near enough charging infrastructure to cope with the ever increasing population of vehicles in this country alone, maybe Toyota are betting on the dates for the end of hybrids (as against pure ICE) being sold having to be pushed back several years.
Toyota don't make many mistakes, there's a lot of world out there who want reliable well proven cars, its not just the UK and europe.
Hino are doing well in rest of world despite apparently not wishing to play the euro 6/7 game making their vehicles overcomplicated and unreliable.
Anyone who's been out on the major routes recently cannot have failed to see the massive amount of cars on our roads, despite all the politician's green promises there isn't going to be anywhere near enough charging infrastructure to cope with the ever increasing population of vehicles in this country alone, maybe Toyota are betting on the dates for the end of hybrids (as against pure ICE) being sold having to be pushed back several years.
Toyota don't make many mistakes, there's a lot of world out there who want reliable well proven cars, its not just the UK and europe.
Hino are doing well in rest of world despite apparently not wishing to play the euro 6/7 game making their vehicles overcomplicated and unreliable.
Trevor555 said:
bristolracer said:
There also vast areas of the planet where pure EVs will not work as there will be no infrastructure for decades.
Africa, South America,vast pasts of Asia won't be going electric anytime soon.
If Toyota are still making ICE when many others have moved to only electric then Toyota could become the dominant player in the 3rd world.
That makes a lot of sense.Africa, South America,vast pasts of Asia won't be going electric anytime soon.
If Toyota are still making ICE when many others have moved to only electric then Toyota could become the dominant player in the 3rd world.
Smint said:
Every vehicle buyer and user is going to buy or order whatever suits them, preferences may change as road pricing or other taxation changes are made and EV range increases or doesn't, EV's won't always benefit from cheap fuel, the govt is not to lose the fuel tax it gains from petrol and Diesel.
Anyone who's been out on the major routes recently cannot have failed to see the massive amount of cars on our roads, despite all the politician's green promises there isn't going to be anywhere near enough charging infrastructure to cope with the ever increasing population of vehicles in this country alone, maybe Toyota are betting on the dates for the end of hybrids (as against pure ICE) being sold having to be pushed back several years.
Toyota don't make many mistakes, there's a lot of world out there who want reliable well proven cars, its not just the UK and europe.
Hino are doing well in rest of world despite apparently not wishing to play the euro 6/7 game making their vehicles overcomplicated and unreliable.
Had never even heard of the name/brand. Anyone who's been out on the major routes recently cannot have failed to see the massive amount of cars on our roads, despite all the politician's green promises there isn't going to be anywhere near enough charging infrastructure to cope with the ever increasing population of vehicles in this country alone, maybe Toyota are betting on the dates for the end of hybrids (as against pure ICE) being sold having to be pushed back several years.
Toyota don't make many mistakes, there's a lot of world out there who want reliable well proven cars, its not just the UK and europe.
Hino are doing well in rest of world despite apparently not wishing to play the euro 6/7 game making their vehicles overcomplicated and unreliable.
Whoops.
bristolracer said:
Also the USA seems in no hurry to go all EV and I think they sell quite a lot over there.
Far from it.https://www.forbes.com/sites/pikeresearch/2020/11/...
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2...
bristolracer said:
There also vast areas of the planet where pure EVs will not work as there will be no infrastructure for decades.
Africa, South America,vast pasts of Asia won't be going electric anytime soon.
If Toyota are still making ICE when many others have moved to only electric then Toyota could become the dominant player in the 3rd world.
Also the USA seems in no hurry to go all EV and I think they sell quite a lot over there.
Maybe they just consider Europe to be a smaller part of their global strategy.
Last time we were in Uganda on a road trip we played spot the non toyota. Sometimes we could go miles.......Africa, South America,vast pasts of Asia won't be going electric anytime soon.
If Toyota are still making ICE when many others have moved to only electric then Toyota could become the dominant player in the 3rd world.
Also the USA seems in no hurry to go all EV and I think they sell quite a lot over there.
Maybe they just consider Europe to be a smaller part of their global strategy.
The abuse corollas and the like can take is barely believable.
As I understand it, Toyota/Lexus will bring out quite a few BEVs in the next year or so. They are late to the the party but they will get there and my guess is that their products will appeal to traditional Toyota/Lexus buyers.
As rxe said, it's a bit like diesel 20 years ago. Toyota/Lexus never really believed in diesel. But everyone in Europe wanted them and so they eventually brought diesel models to market but they never invested heavily and they continued to develop hybrid tech as their preferred solution.
Substitute "diesel" with "BEV" and "hybrid" with "FCEV" and you probably have today's situation.
I am also a massive fan of the Toyota/Lexus hybrids. My last 5 (out of 6) cars have all come from that stable and I never had a single problem.
As rxe said, it's a bit like diesel 20 years ago. Toyota/Lexus never really believed in diesel. But everyone in Europe wanted them and so they eventually brought diesel models to market but they never invested heavily and they continued to develop hybrid tech as their preferred solution.
Substitute "diesel" with "BEV" and "hybrid" with "FCEV" and you probably have today's situation.
I am also a massive fan of the Toyota/Lexus hybrids. My last 5 (out of 6) cars have all come from that stable and I never had a single problem.
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