Dealing with the menopause- help
Discussion
dreamer75 said:
Do no harm of course goes without saying, but we're not talking about harming someone. If someone's symptomatic - mood changes, hot flushes, depression, brain fog, not feeling themselves - you don't think that's worth treating if possible?
I don't think you've really grasped the point here - doctors don't medicate in case something happens. They treat symptoms of existing illness. No doctor in the western world is going to treat an individual with drugs who complains of 'not feeling themself' without other symptoms, even if they include mood changes. Once again, depression is a mental illness and will be diagnosed separately. Checks need to be made that the depression isn't founded on an issue that occurred many years before the individual presented at the therapist/psychologist.
popeyewhite said:
I don't think you've really grasped the point here - doctors don't medicate in case something happens. They treat symptoms of existing illness. No doctor in the western world is going to treat an individual with drugs who complains of 'not feeling themself' without other symptoms, even if they include mood changes.
Once again, depression is a mental illness and will be diagnosed separately. Checks need to be made that the depression isn't founded on an issue that occurred many years before the individual presented at the therapist/psychologist.
There is a whole world of medicine which are preventative, First to mind are vaccines. Even antibiotics are given to prevent infection which hasn't happened yet and may never do so on an extremely regular basis.Once again, depression is a mental illness and will be diagnosed separately. Checks need to be made that the depression isn't founded on an issue that occurred many years before the individual presented at the therapist/psychologist.
8.4L 154 said:
There is a whole world of medicine which are preventative, First to mind are vaccines. Even antibiotics are given to prevent infection which hasn't happened yet and may never do so on an extremely regular basis.
Vaccines target a specific disease.1. Menopause isn't a disease
2. Symptoms such as 'mood change' and 'hot flushes' are not specific.
HTH
popeyewhite said:
8.4L 154 said:
There is a whole world of medicine which are preventative, First to mind are vaccines. Even antibiotics are given to prevent infection which hasn't happened yet and may never do so on an extremely regular basis.
Vaccines target a specific disease.1. Menopause isn't a disease
2. Symptoms such as 'mood change' and 'hot flushes' are not specific.
HTH
phil1979 said:
I recall seeing similar, too.
I took a lot of verbal, mental, and sometimes physical abuse at the hands of hormonal changes.
I did have sympathy for a long time, and then witnessed my father battle stage 4 bowel and liver cancer with a smile and not a single complaint or raised voice.
It was at that point I decided there are simply a lot of childish women out there looking for an excuse.
Have been a better father, and a happier person, since I left that situation.
This is in line with my understanding. An illness of any kind is not nice, and a hormonal imbalance can be treated as an illness in my book. But with all ailments from a cold to menopause to cancer, the primary deciding factor is the personality of the person suffering. 2 people can have exactly the same cold. 1 might be bedridden and completely horrible to everyone around them. The other might smile and get on with life with a sniffle.I took a lot of verbal, mental, and sometimes physical abuse at the hands of hormonal changes.
I did have sympathy for a long time, and then witnessed my father battle stage 4 bowel and liver cancer with a smile and not a single complaint or raised voice.
It was at that point I decided there are simply a lot of childish women out there looking for an excuse.
Have been a better father, and a happier person, since I left that situation.
A lot of people look for an excuse to be the victim these days.
popeyewhite said:
I don't think you've really grasped the point here - doctors don't medicate in case something happens. They treat symptoms of existing illness. No doctor in the western world is going to treat an individual with drugs who complains of 'not feeling themself' without other symptoms, even if they include mood changes.
Once again, depression is a mental illness and will be diagnosed separately. Checks need to be made that the depression isn't founded on an issue that occurred many years before the individual presented at the therapist/psychologist.
I've completely grasped your point, although if I haven't, perhaps you haven't articulated it clearly enough. I was always taught it's the fault of the educator if the student doesn't understand.Once again, depression is a mental illness and will be diagnosed separately. Checks need to be made that the depression isn't founded on an issue that occurred many years before the individual presented at the therapist/psychologist.
But anyway, moving on.
Doctors do carry out preventative care and treatment for things - the easy example someone already gave are vaccines. But the health system is very focused on preventative care; from diet and exercise to vitamin D in the winter and many others.
"Not feeling themselves" is really playing down what the symptoms of menopause can be for many women. We're not talking feeling a little off colour, we're talking significant symptoms. Sometimes misdiagnosed as depression, which it sounds like you're also making the same mistake about. How would you feel about waking up one day from a happy life, to feel no joy in the world, to be unable to have sex anymore due to pain, to irrationally shout at the people you love the most and destroy your marriage and relationships, or be unable to continue with your job. Then be told you shouldn't be treated because it's a natural process. Ignoring for a moment the increased costs to the NHS in treating some of the outcomes which could be avoided by HRT.
Where do you draw the line? Death from a heart attack is a natural process. Death from type 1 diabetes is a natural process. But we treat those. Feeling low due to depression - whether caused by chemical imbalances or traumatic event or "just because" is something we try to treat with either medication or counselling. We treat many things which are "natural processes"
Preventative treatment for menopause outcomes; broken bones (caused by osteoarthritis) and other health conditions, restorative treatments to help mood (not depression although can manifest in the same way), extreme mood swings from extreme anger to sobbing tears, hot flushes (sure, marginalise those if you like, but perhaps you should try experiencing them).
I suspect there's no changing your mind which makes me sad. And I hope you're not representative of the majority of people out there. Ultimately menopause is something which will affect around 50% of the population directly (and a good proportion indirectly through their relationship with menopausal women). It changes peoples lives, affects their working productivity and relationships, and causes long term health problems. It can happen really quite young, and even if you take an average is mid 40's (I think) where women are still in active employment, careers, lives. Only half way through their lives in fact. AND it is an inevitability.
Fortunately not all women have horrible symptoms, and fortunately not all the rest of the population feels like you do.
dreamer75 said:
I've completely grasped your point, although if I haven't, perhaps you haven't articulated it clearly enough. I was always taught it's the fault of the educator if the student doesn't understand.
But anyway, moving on.
Doctors do carry out preventative care and treatment for things - the easy example someone already gave are vaccines. But the health system is very focused on preventative care; from diet and exercise to vitamin D in the winter and many others.
"Not feeling themselves" is really playing down what the symptoms of menopause can be for many women. We're not talking feeling a little off colour, we're talking significant symptoms. Sometimes misdiagnosed as depression, which it sounds like you're also making the same mistake about. How would you feel about waking up one day from a happy life, to feel no joy in the world, to be unable to have sex anymore due to pain, to irrationally shout at the people you love the most and destroy your marriage and relationships, or be unable to continue with your job. Then be told you shouldn't be treated because it's a natural process. Ignoring for a moment the increased costs to the NHS in treating some of the outcomes which could be avoided by HRT.
Where do you draw the line? Death from a heart attack is a natural process. Death from type 1 diabetes is a natural process. But we treat those. Feeling low due to depression - whether caused by chemical imbalances or traumatic event or "just because" is something we try to treat with either medication or counselling. We treat many things which are "natural processes"
Preventative treatment for menopause outcomes; broken bones (caused by osteoarthritis) and other health conditions, restorative treatments to help mood (not depression although can manifest in the same way), extreme mood swings from extreme anger to sobbing tears, hot flushes (sure, marginalise those if you like, but perhaps you should try experiencing them).
I suspect there's no changing your mind which makes me sad. And I hope you're not representative of the majority of people out there. Ultimately menopause is something which will affect around 50% of the population directly (and a good proportion indirectly through their relationship with menopausal women). It changes peoples lives, affects their working productivity and relationships, and causes long term health problems. It can happen really quite young, and even if you take an average is mid 40's (I think) where women are still in active employment, careers, lives. Only half way through their lives in fact. AND it is an inevitability.
Fortunately not all women have horrible symptoms, and fortunately not all the rest of the population feels like you do.
Thank you! Wonderfully put.But anyway, moving on.
Doctors do carry out preventative care and treatment for things - the easy example someone already gave are vaccines. But the health system is very focused on preventative care; from diet and exercise to vitamin D in the winter and many others.
"Not feeling themselves" is really playing down what the symptoms of menopause can be for many women. We're not talking feeling a little off colour, we're talking significant symptoms. Sometimes misdiagnosed as depression, which it sounds like you're also making the same mistake about. How would you feel about waking up one day from a happy life, to feel no joy in the world, to be unable to have sex anymore due to pain, to irrationally shout at the people you love the most and destroy your marriage and relationships, or be unable to continue with your job. Then be told you shouldn't be treated because it's a natural process. Ignoring for a moment the increased costs to the NHS in treating some of the outcomes which could be avoided by HRT.
Where do you draw the line? Death from a heart attack is a natural process. Death from type 1 diabetes is a natural process. But we treat those. Feeling low due to depression - whether caused by chemical imbalances or traumatic event or "just because" is something we try to treat with either medication or counselling. We treat many things which are "natural processes"
Preventative treatment for menopause outcomes; broken bones (caused by osteoarthritis) and other health conditions, restorative treatments to help mood (not depression although can manifest in the same way), extreme mood swings from extreme anger to sobbing tears, hot flushes (sure, marginalise those if you like, but perhaps you should try experiencing them).
I suspect there's no changing your mind which makes me sad. And I hope you're not representative of the majority of people out there. Ultimately menopause is something which will affect around 50% of the population directly (and a good proportion indirectly through their relationship with menopausal women). It changes peoples lives, affects their working productivity and relationships, and causes long term health problems. It can happen really quite young, and even if you take an average is mid 40's (I think) where women are still in active employment, careers, lives. Only half way through their lives in fact. AND it is an inevitability.
Fortunately not all women have horrible symptoms, and fortunately not all the rest of the population feels like you do.
:wave:
Hello brothers - just checking in. All still alive? A couple of close shaves here of late and thought I'd lighten the mood with hearing from you all !
There is some uber-mood-swings going on here and stuff flung.
Bike ride with the boys in the morning. May fix it, probably f
k it.
Hello brothers - just checking in. All still alive? A couple of close shaves here of late and thought I'd lighten the mood with hearing from you all !
There is some uber-mood-swings going on here and stuff flung.
Bike ride with the boys in the morning. May fix it, probably f
k it.Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff