Discussion
rodericb said:
Evoluzione said:
That's a lot of grapefruit, 21 per week! I wonder if I should start on 1 per day then get a blood test done.
Does it have to be whole grapefruit or will juice do? Needs more research....
I'm not sure I'm really agreeing with this prescriptions to make money angle, many people get their meds for free and are still getting prescribed things (like statins) they may or may not actually need. So unless there is something we don't know about* they appear to be spending money, not making it.
What does the leaflet in your statins or your doctor say with regards to consuming grapefruit?Does it have to be whole grapefruit or will juice do? Needs more research....
I'm not sure I'm really agreeing with this prescriptions to make money angle, many people get their meds for free and are still getting prescribed things (like statins) they may or may not actually need. So unless there is something we don't know about* they appear to be spending money, not making it.
- Does anyone really know how this works?
As for the money thing, that someone gets the medication for free doesn't mean that the manufacturer is giving it away for free. Usually there's someone in there somewhere paying for it. Like your NHS.
It says nothing about a whole fruit, but I would guess 1 fruit is equal to 2 small glasses. I would prefer to eat fresh fruit rather than juice as AFAIK it's better for the body.
As an aside, the initial fruit search was fruitless, neither Asda or Sainsburys stocked pink. Will try LidlAldi later. If they don't then it's a case of considering the unsweetened tinned, the yellow type or even just juice as a last resort. Maybe pink is more readily available in Summer.
Yes i'm well aware Pharmaceutical companies aren't giving drugs away
The question we are asking is why we are prescribed/mis-prescribed these things so readily when a change of diet could be more beneficial.
rodericb said:
Imasurv said:
Yes, think it’s been mentioned before that you shouldn’t eat grapefruit if on statins or many other types of medication, but certainly worth repeating just in case. In my case I’m not on statins and trying to avoid them, hence grapefruit (along with other stuff).
You're okay to consume grapefruit with statins according to the NHS: https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/medicin...But the Americans are a bit more cautious on the matter:
https://www.healthline.com/health/high-cholesterol...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26299317/
https://www.goodrx.com/classes/statins/why-cant-i-...
https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/grapef...
NHS said:
Do not drink grapefruit juice if you're taking simvastatin. Grapefruit juice increases the level of simvastatin in your blood and makes side effects more likely.
I'm on Simvastatin. Hence no grapefruit.Evoluzione said:
The leaflet is similar to the NHS advice and says not to drink more than a couple of small glasses of juice per day.
It says nothing about a whole fruit, but I would guess 1 fruit is equal to 2 small glasses. I would prefer to eat fresh fruit rather than juice as AFAIK it's better for the body.
As an aside, the initial fruit search was fruitless, neither Asda or Sainsburys stocked pink. Will try LidlAldi later. If they don't then it's a case of considering the unsweetened tinned, the yellow type or even just juice as a last resort. Maybe pink is more readily available in Summer.
I used to be aable to get red grapefruit (which is a bit sweeter and apparently healthier than yelllow) in Sainsburys easily enough. I was lazy though and now buy them ready peeled in plastics pots from Costco.It says nothing about a whole fruit, but I would guess 1 fruit is equal to 2 small glasses. I would prefer to eat fresh fruit rather than juice as AFAIK it's better for the body.
As an aside, the initial fruit search was fruitless, neither Asda or Sainsburys stocked pink. Will try LidlAldi later. If they don't then it's a case of considering the unsweetened tinned, the yellow type or even just juice as a last resort. Maybe pink is more readily available in Summer.
QJumper said:
Evoluzione said:
The leaflet is similar to the NHS advice and says not to drink more than a couple of small glasses of juice per day.
It says nothing about a whole fruit, but I would guess 1 fruit is equal to 2 small glasses. I would prefer to eat fresh fruit rather than juice as AFAIK it's better for the body.
As an aside, the initial fruit search was fruitless, neither Asda or Sainsburys stocked pink. Will try LidlAldi later. If they don't then it's a case of considering the unsweetened tinned, the yellow type or even just juice as a last resort. Maybe pink is more readily available in Summer.
I used to be aable to get red grapefruit (which is a bit sweeter and apparently healthier than yelllow) in Sainsburys easily enough. I was lazy though and now buy them ready peeled in plastics pots from Costco.It says nothing about a whole fruit, but I would guess 1 fruit is equal to 2 small glasses. I would prefer to eat fresh fruit rather than juice as AFAIK it's better for the body.
As an aside, the initial fruit search was fruitless, neither Asda or Sainsburys stocked pink. Will try LidlAldi later. If they don't then it's a case of considering the unsweetened tinned, the yellow type or even just juice as a last resort. Maybe pink is more readily available in Summer.
The only problem is i'll be cutting down on other things too, so we won't know if the lowering of cholesterol is due to grapefruit alone.
rodericb said:
Evoluzione said:
The question we are asking is why we are prescribed/mis-prescribed these things so readily when a change of diet could be more beneficial.
Because it's the *easiest* for folk to do and it helps keep a massive industry going.Evoluzione said:
rodericb said:
Evoluzione said:
The question we are asking is why we are prescribed/mis-prescribed these things so readily when a change of diet could be more beneficial.
Because it's the *easiest* for folk to do and it helps keep a massive industry going.I was prescribed atorvastatin a couple of years ago following a very high cholesterol reading. I live a very healthy lifestyle but suffer from hypothyroidism which has many side effects, high cholesterol being one in my case. I found this statin gave me diarrhoea and so I was switched to an alternative named rosuvastatin. No side effects on that one.
Stan the Bat said:
Evoluzione said:
rodericb said:
Evoluzione said:
The question we are asking is why we are prescribed/mis-prescribed these things so readily when a change of diet could be more beneficial.
Because it's the *easiest* for folk to do and it helps keep a massive industry going.grumbledoak said:
lauda said:
...
It's a small sample of two, but there can definitely be side-effects.
Oh, certainly. I had the muscular weakness and kidney area pain side effects. I can assure you that was the pills not old age - firstly I was relatively young, and secondly they stop when you stop the pills. The eye damage seems permanent. I am glad my optician was paying attention there. The doctor certainly wasn't.It's a small sample of two, but there can definitely be side-effects.
As a result of this I read rather a lot about statins. I recommend you do too. The first billion dollar drugs, they are now a cash cow. The benefits are overstated, the risks swept under the carpet. No overall mortality benefit, they only benefit men who have had a heart attack, and women not at all.
Try -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Cholesterol-Dr-Malc...
or
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Statin-Free-Life-revoluti...
and certainly try lifestyle changes before pills.
As you say, the only cohort who show any benefit at all is men in their 50 who have already had a heart attack. The reason that statins help in this single group is because they have an anti-inflammatory effect. The cholesterol-lowering gives no benefit at all. The old "cholesterol theory" is wrong. It really is that simple. All the evidence points to lower cholesterol showing more mortality than higher cholesterol in untreated people. Statins DO lower cholesterol, specifically LDL, but this achieves nothing. They basically make the liver LDL receptors absorb a lot more LDL from the blood, hence your numbers go down. Woopee. The problem is that the dangerous cholesterol is the glycated (damaged) LDL and these particles aren’t recognised by the LDL receptors so what actually happens is that they are unaffected and the % of healthy LDL particles in the blood goes down. The medical profession sees LDL levels go down and pat themselves on the back. People then go on to have a heart attack as before. Statins also reduce the body’s production of CoQ10, which is a vital metabolite for the heart muscle. How many of you have been prescribed additional CoQ10 to make up for the statin-induced shortfall?
BMJ literature review in 2014 found that people who’d actually had a heart attack before had their life extended by the grand total of 4.1 days through being prescribed statins after their heart attack. Everyone else less obvs. Miracle drug? Not so much. Miracle profit industry? Yes. Don’t take my word for any of this. I’m only posting this to make people aware that they shouldn’t take doctors’ advice at face value. They’re as clueless as everyone else mostly, they're only following guidelines that have been wrong since the outset. But don’t shoot the messenger. Go and look for proper info on this yourselves. There are a growing number of sources in every format from researchers and medical professionals who have realised the established science from decades ago was er wrong.
If you really want to reduce your risk of CVD and heart attacks then research it properly. Sugar, starch and industrial seed oils. Look no further. Reduce them and your triglycerides will reduce and your HDL will improve. Ignore LDL as it gives no indication of anything unless you have it properly analysed through an LDL panel to see the level of glycation/damage. The three things above are what causes the damaged LDL in the first place. Anyway, don’t shoot the messenger. And I really don’t want to cause any worry, statins aren’t the answer, diet is.
DaveGrohl said:
Lots of Statin-questioning stuff
Exactly the conversation that my wife had yet again with her GP this week!The call was to discuss some abnormal test results for her kidneys, and the bloody woman spent over half the call telling my wife she needed a statin instead, and then being completely flummoxed when questioned.
It bears comparison with all the people on our local Facebook group screeching about getting the evil Tories out because the local council has published a draft local plan that's going to eat greenbelt. A local council that has been controlled by the Residents' Association ever since the Borough was formed over a century ago!
Do people question what others have told them? Nope! They've been told, accepted it and just don't look any further to validate the message!
Grumps. said:
Thanks for all the replies.
As per my original post, I was asking about people who are taking them, how they are getting on with them, not about if people should take them or not.
Interesting about the grapefruit though!
I have to admit I'm a little confused by your motivation. As per my original post, I was asking about people who are taking them, how they are getting on with them, not about if people should take them or not.
Interesting about the grapefruit though!
If you've already accepted you're going to take them, then why ask others for their experience?
If you haven't, then why only ask others for their experiences, rather than their potentially well informed reasons for taking them or not?
Kermit power said:
I have to admit I'm a little confused by your motivation.
If you've already accepted you're going to take them, then why ask others for their experience?
If you haven't, then why only ask others for their experiences, rather than their potentially well informed reasons for taking them or not?
I have had the same doctor for over 20 years and I see him regularly due to my health. After my last mot, he said that I should start taking them.If you've already accepted you're going to take them, then why ask others for their experience?
If you haven't, then why only ask others for their experiences, rather than their potentially well informed reasons for taking them or not?
As he discussed with me, and I here, there are a few different types and makes and was gaining people’s experiences to see if there was a common one.
It’s a conversation.
That’s it, nothing more, nothing less.
Grumps. said:
Thanks for all the replies.
As per my original post, I was asking about people who are taking them, how they are getting on with them, not about if people should take them or not.
Interesting about the grapefruit though!
In case you're interested, I also recently read that cashew nuts help reduce cholesterol as well.As per my original post, I was asking about people who are taking them, how they are getting on with them, not about if people should take them or not.
Interesting about the grapefruit though!
Kermit power said:
DaveGrohl said:
Lots of Statin-questioning stuff
Exactly the conversation that my wife had yet again with her GP this week!The call was to discuss some abnormal test results for her kidneys, and the bloody woman spent over half the call telling my wife she needed a statin instead, and then being completely flummoxed when questioned.
It bears comparison with all the people on our local Facebook group screeching about getting the evil Tories out because the local council has published a draft local plan that's going to eat greenbelt. A local council that has been controlled by the Residents' Association ever since the Borough was formed over a century ago!
Do people question what others have told them? Nope! They've been told, accepted it and just don't look any further to validate the message!
Hey ho, one can only try to make people aware that there is no basis for lowering cholesterol and therefore taking statins. Up to them after that. Oh well.
I actually had to double check the first couple of posts because I thought I'd written them myself!
Anyway, just been prescribed Atorvastatin 20mg too, 44 years old.
I have a big family history of hypercholesterolemia, several heart attacks at the age of 62 ish in the family. Interestingly I'd had a blood test a couple of years ago, which had indicated high cholesterol, then by chance I had another one after 3 months in thailand eating healthy and exercising 4 times a week. It showed negligible change over that time, so they thought best to stick me on it. I asked if it was worth waiting and they said they'd rather I start immediately.
However, in the meantime I've bought this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1907797769?psc=1&r...
and am mulling over this one which was just recommended to me today
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1786068257?r...
I do follow a few people that say the whole cholesterol thing is over rated, so I'd quite interested to delve more into it though I'm a little hesitant with the whole family history thing, I mean, I'm literally looking at the heart attack evidence in the family, so as long as im not seeing any side effects, I might as well.
Anyway, just been prescribed Atorvastatin 20mg too, 44 years old.
I have a big family history of hypercholesterolemia, several heart attacks at the age of 62 ish in the family. Interestingly I'd had a blood test a couple of years ago, which had indicated high cholesterol, then by chance I had another one after 3 months in thailand eating healthy and exercising 4 times a week. It showed negligible change over that time, so they thought best to stick me on it. I asked if it was worth waiting and they said they'd rather I start immediately.
However, in the meantime I've bought this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1907797769?psc=1&r...
and am mulling over this one which was just recommended to me today
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1786068257?r...
I do follow a few people that say the whole cholesterol thing is over rated, so I'd quite interested to delve more into it though I'm a little hesitant with the whole family history thing, I mean, I'm literally looking at the heart attack evidence in the family, so as long as im not seeing any side effects, I might as well.
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