how fast can you row 2000 metres ?
Discussion
AJLintern said:
I believe Andrew Marr also had his stroke while doing HIIT on an erg... take it easy and don't push yourself too hard while building up your fitness!
I believe you are correct.I suspect there are many, many people who have messed themselves up on an erg. A comforting thought, as I head off to the gym to row this morning...
Personally, I am not a big subscriber to the "no pain, no gain" philosophy, where most exercise is concerned. Certainly not for the unfit, infirm and the elderly. A controlled pushing of the limits pays dividends, "going mental" at things doesn't help and brings with it the risk of injury. It also builds psychological resistance to exercise.
So said:
AJLintern said:
I believe Andrew Marr also had his stroke while doing HIIT on an erg... take it easy and don't push yourself too hard while building up your fitness!
I believe you are correct.I suspect there are many, many people who have messed themselves up on an erg. A comforting thought, as I head off to the gym to row this morning...
Personally, I am not a big subscriber to the "no pain, no gain" philosophy, where most exercise is concerned. Certainly not for the unfit, infirm and the elderly. A controlled pushing of the limits pays dividends, "going mental" at things doesn't help and brings with it the risk of injury. It also builds psychological resistance to exercise.
I do subscribe to the no pain, no gain mindset, but I only venture into those sessions a couple of times per week. Tend to do a mix of intervals, steady state (at the moment this is normally 10SPI stuff, low rate race prep) and heart rate caps (maffetone).
My favourite sessions are the intervals - 10x1 at 2k pace-5 or more seconds, or try for as many rounds of minute intervals at my 2k target pace until the body gives up, I run out of time, or get bored - normally tend to run out of time.
It is worth noting that rowing is hugely technical, and minor changes in technique can make huge difference in pace early on when getting used to the erg.
I do subscribe to the no pain, no gain mindset, but don't venture into those areas regularly. I probably
MellowshipSlinky said:
clonmult said:
I do subscribe to the no pain, no gain mindset, but don't venture into those areas regularly. I probably
I’m hoping, as you’ve not finished what you were saying, that you’ve not just had a coronary...To be clear, I do believe that it’s is necessary to experience some pain to progress at any fitness sport. But doing that in a controlled and educated manner, when you know what you are doing (or being well coached), is what is required. Not going at things hammer and tongs with little or no idea of the benefits or potential consequences.
So said:
Haha.
To be clear, I do believe that it’s is necessary to experience some pain to progress at any fitness sport. But doing that in a controlled and educated manner, when you know what you are doing (or being well coached), is what is required. Not going at things hammer and tongs with little or no idea of the benefits or potential consequences.
The distinction is between pain and discomfort. Discomfort is absolutely necessary; pain is not. To be clear, I do believe that it’s is necessary to experience some pain to progress at any fitness sport. But doing that in a controlled and educated manner, when you know what you are doing (or being well coached), is what is required. Not going at things hammer and tongs with little or no idea of the benefits or potential consequences.
So said:
MellowshipSlinky said:
clonmult said:
I do subscribe to the no pain, no gain mindset, but don't venture into those areas regularly. I probably
I’m hoping, as you’ve not finished what you were saying, that you’ve not just had a coronary...To be clear, I do believe that it’s is necessary to experience some pain to progress at any fitness sport. But doing that in a controlled and educated manner, when you know what you are doing (or being well coached), is what is required. Not going at things hammer and tongs with little or no idea of the benefits or potential consequences.
Good clarification on that point, going insane with rubbish technique would be counter productive and potentially quite dangerous. I have seen a few people caning it with rubbish technique, have occasionally suggested they change technique, but invariably they drop back to lousy in a few minutes.
Lemming Train said:
Rupert, as a new rower like myself I can only applaud you if that 2k time is true! I've just had a go and had to give up at 1k as I was a fraction away from being dead! Pulling like f
k I only managed 4:26 for 1km 
. It's taken me literally 30 mins to recover and get my breath back; thought my lungs were going to explode. I reckon at the very slow I would have had to have done if I'd continued it would be probably 10 mins to do 2k 
. I am clearly seriously unfit . I shall continue with my intervals doing 8x 3 min rows and a 1 min gentle row in between as this works better for me right now and I am slowly improving my total distance as the weeks pass too.
certainly true. to be fair though, I'm technically not a new rower. I've used the gym several at several times over my life, just not for about 15 years k I only managed 4:26 for 1km . It's taken me literally 30 mins to recover and get my breath back; thought my lungs were going to explode. I reckon at the very slow I would have had to have done if I'd continued it would be probably 10 mins to do 2k . I am clearly seriously unfit . I shall continue with my intervals doing 8x 3 min rows and a 1 min gentle row in between as this works better for me right now and I am slowly improving my total distance as the weeks pass too.
I'm trying to work consistently at 30 - 35 strokes a minute, long push with the legs followed with short pull to the abdomen. Thing is, whilst I'm breathing hard during and at the end, its not my lungs that are the limiting factor - its the muscles in the legs and arms.
Form is really important, my son who is a brand new rower is learning that right now. He's finding if he concentrates on the form he can do a lower spm but go faster.
So said:
If you think you're "pulling" you still need to look at your form. You should feel like you are pushing (with your legs). It is principally a leg exercise.
'Push' is what I meant. Legs definitely felt like jelly afterwards and couldn't stand up straight 
, also aching arms and upper body so I think my form is decent already but probably still room for improvement. Perhaps I should have started at a more manageable speed rather than gone at it hammer and tongs as that's what caused me to flake out at 1k. Trouble is my 1k time would have been even slower than it already was (probably 5 mins) and it's likely that my rate would have reduced a little more in 2nd half as well from exhaustion.I don't particularly enjoy the rowing but I think that's because I'm so unfit the exercise is very hard work. What I do like is the feeling afterwards as it really perks me up and puts me in the mood to do stuff. If I don't do the exercise every day I feel lethargic all day and don't feel like getting anything done, if that makes some sense
. I know you're not meant to overdo it but it's only 30 mins decent exercise a day and my body seems comfortable with that without any side effects.Any comments on the general accuracy of the PM5 calorie counter when combined with the weight adjuster on the C2 website? Last work-out for 32:07 mins (with intervals) showed 82 kW average, 583 cal/h and calories burned 307. After inputting my weight 106.2 kg into the C2 calculator it now says 365 calories burned. Is that likely to be about right or is it complete rubbish? There seem to be a lot of arguments about its accuracy on the net.
Lemming Train said:
Any comments on the general accuracy of the PM5 calorie counter when combined with the weight adjuster on the C2 website? Last work-out for 32:07 mins (with intervals) showed 82 kW average, 583 cal/h and calories burned 307. After inputting my weight 106.2 kg into the C2 calculator it now says 365 calories burned. Is that likely to be about right or is it complete rubbish? There seem to be a lot of arguments about its accuracy on the net.
As with every calorie counter (no matter the device, website, equipment, etc), take the results as being, at best, just a guide with at least a 20% margin of error. Even if one person finds them accurate, they've no way of knowing if indeed it is accurate (and it could just be a fluke - or those people are possibly completely miscalculating their calorie intake and thus therefore believe the rower's figures). In short, ignore them as an effective measure of calories burned in itself, rather use them as a baseline and comparative - consider the figure to be an "exercise unit", if it's higher one day you've worked harder, and vice versa. So while the method used by the machine to calculate your calories burned won't be perfect by any stretch, it will be consistent, giving you a basis to work from treating the figure as "exercise units".I presume you're trying to work to a goal of burning x amount of calories per day, in order to create a certain balance between calories in vs calories out. The reality is you can't, with any degree of accuracy, and short of undertaking lab testing, calculate your calories burned. But, you can still make use of the figures. If you're achieving your goals, whatever that is, when your theoretical calories burned shows a certain figure, then that's your comparison point, regardless of how it relates to your calories consumed. Likewise, if you're not achieving your goal - be that weight loss, strength gain, etc, then adjust your effort as required - again, regardless of how it relates to calorie consumption.
So by all means use the calories burned figure to compare your efforts against your results and adjust as required. But you can't use the figure to calculate, with any sort of meaningful accuracy, your net calorie intake (since you're dealing with limited, quite imperfect data).
(For reference, I'm currently at a total of 25,000,000 meters - not a typo - over the past 6 1/2 years on my Concept2).
Edited by fbc on Sunday 27th January 04:26
Edited by fbc on Sunday 27th January 04:28
Thanks fbc. As it happens I'm not using the calorie counter at all, it was just something that piqued my interest after reading some threads on the C2 forums. I'm on a pretty strict keto diet so I'm burning fat regardless, the rowing is more to improve my general fitness and expedite my weight loss although I am aware the weight loss is 90% diet and 10% exercise so I'm not expecting to be shedding huge amounts from the rowing. I didn't realise by pressing the 'units' button on the PM5 I could see the calories burned and kW info until today!
On a separate note I still feel like my legs aren't doing enough of the work on the drive. I wonder if increasing the drag factor a bit may help that? It's currently at 113. I'm finding that there is hardly any resistance on the drive when pushing out with my legs and the majority of the work is being done by my arms. I have closely scrutinised the technique vids and am definitely leaning to 1 o'clock with arms outstretched past my knees with the bar and shins never beyond vertical. I find that the flywheel is still spinning too fast from the previous drive when I start my next one, so nothing for my legs to do. I'm still feeling the work-out in my legs but feel there should be more resistance to push against from the flywheel rather than it feeling like the only resistance is pushing the seat up the rail.
On a separate note I still feel like my legs aren't doing enough of the work on the drive. I wonder if increasing the drag factor a bit may help that? It's currently at 113. I'm finding that there is hardly any resistance on the drive when pushing out with my legs and the majority of the work is being done by my arms. I have closely scrutinised the technique vids and am definitely leaning to 1 o'clock with arms outstretched past my knees with the bar and shins never beyond vertical. I find that the flywheel is still spinning too fast from the previous drive when I start my next one, so nothing for my legs to do. I'm still feeling the work-out in my legs but feel there should be more resistance to push against from the flywheel rather than it feeling like the only resistance is pushing the seat up the rail.
Lemming Train said:
Thanks fbc. As it happens I'm not using the calorie counter at all, it was just something that piqued my interest after reading some threads on the C2 forums. I'm on a pretty strict keto diet so I'm burning fat regardless, the rowing is more to improve my general fitness and expedite my weight loss although I am aware the weight loss is 90% diet and 10% exercise so I'm not expecting to be shedding huge amounts from the rowing. I didn't realise by pressing the 'units' button on the PM5 I could see the calories burned and kW info until today!
On a separate note I still feel like my legs aren't doing enough of the work on the drive. I wonder if increasing the drag factor a bit may help that? It's currently at 113. I'm finding that there is hardly any resistance on the drive when pushing out with my legs and the majority of the work is being done by my arms. I have closely scrutinised the technique vids and am definitely leaning to 1 o'clock with arms outstretched past my knees with the bar and shins never beyond vertical. I find that the flywheel is still spinning too fast from the previous drive when I start my next one, so nothing for my legs to do. I'm still feeling the work-out in my legs but feel there should be more resistance to push against from the flywheel rather than it feeling like the only resistance is pushing the seat up the rail.
I usually have DF at about 130-135, which is 5-6 fan setting on a clean machine. But you should still be getting energy into the machine at 113. On a separate note I still feel like my legs aren't doing enough of the work on the drive. I wonder if increasing the drag factor a bit may help that? It's currently at 113. I'm finding that there is hardly any resistance on the drive when pushing out with my legs and the majority of the work is being done by my arms. I have closely scrutinised the technique vids and am definitely leaning to 1 o'clock with arms outstretched past my knees with the bar and shins never beyond vertical. I find that the flywheel is still spinning too fast from the previous drive when I start my next one, so nothing for my legs to do. I'm still feeling the work-out in my legs but feel there should be more resistance to push against from the flywheel rather than it feeling like the only resistance is pushing the seat up the rail.
How is your catch? Is there resistance from the moment you start driving with your legs? Or are you half way through your leg drive before you feel resistance?
So said:
I usually have DF at about 130-135, which is 5-6 fan setting on a clean machine. But you should still be getting energy into the machine at 113.
How is your catch? Is there resistance from the moment you start driving with your legs? Or are you half way through your leg drive before you feel resistance?
That ^. I've tried pausing momentarily at the end of recovery so that the rower can 'catch up' but that just puts my rhythm out. Resistance on legs feels nice when pushing off from a standstill - can really feel it working them, but it's very 'meh' once up to speed. I'll try increasing the DF a bit more to see if I can get a better balance between my legs and arms. Just feels too biased towards my arms at the moment.How is your catch? Is there resistance from the moment you start driving with your legs? Or are you half way through your leg drive before you feel resistance?
AJLintern said:
Arms should only really pull in the last bit at the finish of the stroke, for most of the time they are just part of the linkage that transmits the force from your legs
Of course, but I must have extra long arms then because at the 1 o'clock position my legs are well on their way to being fully extended as I'm still holding the bar just of front of my feet. The only way I can 'link' my arms with my legs so that my legs do the work is start the drive partially leaning back then I would pick up the slack on the chain earlier and be able to use my legs to push. But that isn't the correct technique.I wonder if there's a recommended DF setting for the various spm rates? A lower DF setting is probably fine if you're only rowing slowly as the flywheel will have time to slow down in between strokes, but if you row faster with a low DF setting the flywheel keeps spinning for too long so you're not actually doing anything other than sliding yourself back on the seat on the drive because the chain is still slack. Is it normal to gradually increase the DF as your spm durability increases? Am I making sense here?
Lemming Train said:
I wonder if there's a recommended DF setting for the various spm rates? A lower DF setting is probably fine if you're only rowing slowly as the flywheel will have time to slow down in between strokes, but if you row faster with a low DF setting the flywheel keeps spinning for too long so you're not actually doing anything other than sliding yourself back on the seat on the drive because the chain is still slack. Is it normal to gradually increase the DF as your spm durability increases? Am I making sense here?
I wouldn't worry too much about DF settings at this point - there's something amiss with your technique, while I can't say exactly what as I'm not qualified...ORD said:
My guess would be that you’ve either gone soft in the middle or are not pushing hard enough with your legs. You need to accelerate hard to get the most out of the resistance.
... I think this is a good start. If you're not pushing hard enough with your legs and doing more work with your arms then you're effectively creating the problem and it just goes in a loop since you're spinning the machine harder in the final part of your stroke, hence your legs then have less do at the start of the following stroke since you've accelerated the machine to peak right at the end. Perhaps try and slow your stroke down, really focus on pushing hard with your legs and also doing a bit less with your arms (if the legs do the bulk of the work there will be less left to do for the arms at the end anyway).Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff