how fast can you row 2000 metres ?

[Slagathore]

I row on a reasonably low DF, and it doesn't matter if I'm doing a 2:00 split at 18sm or a 1:35 split at 30sm, I never get slack in the chain or what you are describing.

It sounds like a technique problem. Your arms shouldn't really be getting tired, they should be doing the least amount of work. I would guess that you're leaning too far forward at the catch and losing good back position and then pulling too much with the arms. As ORD also said, going soft in the middle. You should have constant tension through the core as well, pivoting upright with the hips/pelvis engaged as well.

Edit - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_kPkjjNWZM

Good series on technique from them, and loads of other good videos as well.

Edited by Slagathore on Sunday 27th January 11:55

[Lemming Train]

fbc said:

Lemming Train said:

I wonder if there's a recommended DF setting for the various spm rates? A lower DF setting is probably fine if you're only rowing slowly as the flywheel will have time to slow down in between strokes, but if you row faster with a low DF setting the flywheel keeps spinning for too long so you're not actually doing anything other than sliding yourself back on the seat on the drive because the chain is still slack. Is it normal to gradually increase the DF as your spm durability increases? Am I making sense here?

I wouldn't worry too much about DF settings at this point - there's something amiss with your technique, while I can't say exactly what as I'm not qualified...

ORD said:

My guess would be that you’ve either gone soft in the middle or are not pushing hard enough with your legs. You need to accelerate hard to get the most out of the resistance.

... I think this is a good start. If you're not pushing hard enough with your legs and doing more work with your arms then you're effectively creating the problem and it just goes in a loop since you're spinning the machine harder in the final part of your stroke, hence your legs then have less do at the start of the following stroke since you've accelerated the machine to peak right at the end. Perhaps try and slow your stroke down, really focus on pushing hard with your legs and also doing a bit less with your arms (if the legs do the bulk of the work there will be less left to do for the arms at the end anyway).

Thanks. I have tried shorter drives without pulling as strong with my arms at the end in an attempt to prevent the flywheel going crazy but my spm then increased quite a bit and it felt too easy on my arms like I wasn't really working them. My overall distance for the set time period did increase though so maybe I'm heading in the right direction and just need to work on fine-tuning it?

[ORD]

If you’re rowing properly, it SHOULD feel easy on your arms and upper back. Your legs should be jelly before your upper back and arms feel remotely tired.

[LivingTheDream]

Wasn’t feeling it today - ending up with times slightly slower than my last ones. But it was a good workout none the less.

On the subject of form. I watched a lady on the machine today. She had very poor form, sort of pushed with her legs but leant forward so left her hands where they were. Then a short pull with her hands and back to the start. It was quite strange.

The machine was showing a 500m time of 4.45

[IrateNinja]

Lemming Train said:

Am I making sense here?

No. You're overthinking it. 113 is fine.

Legs - body - arms. Keep that sequence and you're fine. You do not need to lean back before your legs are flat in order to remove any perceived slack in the system.

[Blakeatron]

Got a concept 2 just before Christmas bit only been using it since early Jan.

Rowing 2000m, 5 mornings a week. Upto level 6 now and finishing at around 8.20

Next step - Do i up the strength or add an extra 500m?

[So]

Blakeatron said:

Got a concept 2 just before Christmas bit only been using it since early Jan.

Rowing 2000m, 5 mornings a week. Upto level 6 now and finishing at around 8.20

Next step - Do i up the strength or add an extra 500m?

What are you trying to achieve?

[Lemming Train]

I trieed with the DF up to 5.5 from 4.5 to see if I could put more power into my legs but it become much toughier for my arms than I was expecting so I dropped it back down again part way through my workout. I am trying to concentrate on keeping the bar steady and pushing out with my legs first then following through with the bar. Seems to be starting to work and I can definitely feel my legs are more jelly after this workout than previous ones so that indicates I'm doing something right.

[Blakeatron]

So said:

What are you trying to achieve?

I cycle as well - so just topping up general fitness and trying to get rid of the belly fat.

Went upto 7 this morning and managed 8.03.

Definitely felt it in my legs, and more out of puff

[So]

Blakeatron said:

So said:

What are you trying to achieve?

I cycle as well - so just topping up general fitness and trying to get rid of the belly fat.

Went upto 7 this morning and managed 8.03.

Definitely felt it in my legs, and more out of puff

In terms of resistance, don't get too caught up on fan settings. It doesn't make a massive difference, and you are better off focusing on other things. Go into settings, find drag factor and set your fan so that the drag is about 130. Then forget about it.

For fat loss, I find interval training whilst in a calorie deficit very effective.

I mix up what intervals I do, in terms of work and rest times. I might do 30 seconds work, 1 minute rest and aim for 135/500 average. Or I might have a longer rest and aim for faster splits. Or sometimes I will do 200 or 500 meter intervals. But it's still 80% diet that will shed the belly..

In terms of how to improve your cycling, I haven't ever rowed to improve cycling performance. But there's a lot on the Internet about it.

[clonmult]

So said:

Blakeatron said:

So said:

What are you trying to achieve?

I cycle as well - so just topping up general fitness and trying to get rid of the belly fat.

Went upto 7 this morning and managed 8.03.

Definitely felt it in my legs, and more out of puff

In terms of resistance, don't get too caught up on fan settings. It doesn't make a massive difference, and you are better off focusing on other things. Go into settings, find drag factor and set your fan so that the drag is about 130. Then forget about it.

For fat loss, I find interval training whilst in a calorie deficit very effective.

I mix up what intervals I do, in terms of work and rest times. I might do 30 seconds work, 1 minute rest and aim for 135/500 average. Or I might have a longer rest and aim for faster splits. Or sometimes I will do 200 or 500 meter intervals. But it's still 80% diet that will shed the belly..

In terms of how to improve your cycling, I haven't ever rowed to improve cycling performance. But there's a lot on the Internet about it.

I used to find that low rate stuff on the erg really did help me on the hills. A couple of weeks back I did a 4k on the bike erg, set a rather handy PB - 6:47.8. That was a 10 second improvement, so what I found years back still works, at least for me.

Last week had a few really good sessions, had an idea of doing a low rate 2k. Fastest I had previously done this was 7:30. A combination of low rate work looking at SPI (trying to keep to 10SPI - ie. R20/2:00 pace, or R19/2:02.5, etc.) and intervals really is helping me feel more confident/faster/stronger/etc. I'm primarily doing this for fitness, you are damn right about weight loss being primarily diet.

[So]

clonmult said:

I used to find that low rate stuff on the erg really did help me on the hills. A couple of weeks back I did a 4k on the bike erg, set a rather handy PB - 6:47.8. That was a 10 second improvement, so what I found years back still works, at least for me.

Last week had a few really good sessions, had an idea of doing a low rate 2k. Fastest I had previously done this was 7:30. A combination of low rate work looking at SPI (trying to keep to 10SPI - ie. R20/2:00 pace, or R19/2:02.5, etc.) and intervals really is helping me feel more confident/faster/stronger/etc. I'm primarily doing this for fitness, you are damn right about weight loss being primarily diet.

Good effort.

Have you tried it at 18?

[Smitters]

Got a pb of 7.52. Hoping to get that towards 7.30 this year. I'm (normally) about 72kg, so that's quite an ask I think, but a fun little side-challenge, I'm using the C2 as my gym warm-up presently, so will do a 1600-1700m easy, then 10 secs hard, 20 secs easy for the final two minutes. I find it an excellent all body warm-up.

[clonmult]

So said:

clonmult said:

I used to find that low rate stuff on the erg really did help me on the hills. A couple of weeks back I did a 4k on the bike erg, set a rather handy PB - 6:47.8. That was a 10 second improvement, so what I found years back still works, at least for me.

Last week had a few really good sessions, had an idea of doing a low rate 2k. Fastest I had previously done this was 7:30. A combination of low rate work looking at SPI (trying to keep to 10SPI - ie. R20/2:00 pace, or R19/2:02.5, etc.) and intervals really is helping me feel more confident/faster/stronger/etc. I'm primarily doing this for fitness, you are damn right about weight loss being primarily diet.

Good effort.

Have you tried it at 18?

Ta, and nope, have never tried it at 18. Don't think I'll have much of a drop off in pace, maybe a second pace drop.

[So]

clonmult said:

So said:

clonmult said:

I used to find that low rate stuff on the erg really did help me on the hills. A couple of weeks back I did a 4k on the bike erg, set a rather handy PB - 6:47.8. That was a 10 second improvement, so what I found years back still works, at least for me.

Last week had a few really good sessions, had an idea of doing a low rate 2k. Fastest I had previously done this was 7:30. A combination of low rate work looking at SPI (trying to keep to 10SPI - ie. R20/2:00 pace, or R19/2:02.5, etc.) and intervals really is helping me feel more confident/faster/stronger/etc. I'm primarily doing this for fitness, you are damn right about weight loss being primarily diet.

Good effort.

Have you tried it at 18?

Ta, and nope, have never tried it at 18. Don't think I'll have much of a drop off in pace, maybe a second pace drop.

When I visited a proper rowing club, that had proper rowers training, they seemed to favour 18 as the target. I am not sure why.

Personally, I tend to put in better times at 28. Perhaps it's because I am only 5' 9" and stocky. If I try to stay at 18 and create the same energy my legs tire. But sometimes I will do 30 minutes at 16-18 by way of a change and to try to improve form.

[clonmult]

So said:

clonmult said:

So said:

clonmult said:

I used to find that low rate stuff on the erg really did help me on the hills. A couple of weeks back I did a 4k on the bike erg, set a rather handy PB - 6:47.8. That was a 10 second improvement, so what I found years back still works, at least for me.

Last week had a few really good sessions, had an idea of doing a low rate 2k. Fastest I had previously done this was 7:30. A combination of low rate work looking at SPI (trying to keep to 10SPI - ie. R20/2:00 pace, or R19/2:02.5, etc.) and intervals really is helping me feel more confident/faster/stronger/etc. I'm primarily doing this for fitness, you are damn right about weight loss being primarily diet.

Good effort.

Have you tried it at 18?

Ta, and nope, have never tried it at 18. Don't think I'll have much of a drop off in pace, maybe a second pace drop.

When I visited a proper rowing club, that had proper rowers training, they seemed to favour 18 as the target. I am not sure why.

Personally, I tend to put in better times at 28. Perhaps it's because I am only 5' 9" and stocky. If I try to stay at 18 and create the same energy my legs tire. But sometimes I will do 30 minutes at 16-18 by way of a change and to try to improve form.

I've got a tee shirt with #boycottr18 on it; partially as a joke at people who seem to stick at R18. Knowing me I'll give it a go at either 17 or 19. But not sure I'll have time this week, tomorrow is my last day of sprint related work, then I'm on for taking it easy due to the competition at weekend.

Have a feeling that I may actually be able to go a little faster at R18 or R19 - a little more time to suck in more air.

[clonmult]

In addition to the above, I've been starting to look into SPI calculations - the power output divided by stroke rate, which gives you a figure for your power per stroke.

For example, 7k at 19spm, pulling 2:02.4 pace. That is 191 watts average, which works out at 10SPI.

Friday I did 10x1 minute, 1 minute rest. Target was to pull 1:40 average (350 watts), wanted to be pulling 33spm, actually did 32spm average, which works out at just short of 11SPI.

The 7:19.9 2k at 20spm is 263 watts average, which works out at 13SPI.

Now, in order to pull my target 2k of 6:50, that will be 1:42.5 pace, and at 33spm that is 9.85SPI. Which is why I have been having all of my work (aside from PB attempts) at 10SPI or higher.

A load of numbers which are possibly useful, which will be thrown away when the nerves hit whilst sitting on an erg at the velodrome on Sunday morning waiting for the race to start.

(there's a website, marchars.net that can do the power/pace/SPI calculations, really useful)

[clonmult]

English Indoor championships yesterday.

Set a PB under race conditions, 6:54.1.

I'm still hurting ....

[So]

clonmult said:

English Indoor championships yesterday.

Set a PB under race conditions, 6:54.1.

I'm still hurting ....

That's a great effort, well done.

[Lemming Train]

fbc said:

... I think this is a good start. If you're not pushing hard enough with your legs and doing more work with your arms then you're effectively creating the problem and it just goes in a loop since you're spinning the machine harder in the final part of your stroke, hence your legs then have less do at the start of the following stroke since you've accelerated the machine to peak right at the end. Perhaps try and slow your stroke down, really focus on pushing hard with your legs and also doing a bit less with your arms (if the legs do the bulk of the work there will be less left to do for the arms at the end anyway).

fbc, ORD and others - thanks. I have worked on improving my technique with the tips you chaps have given and I think I'm not far off now. I've settled quite comfortably to a 24 spm rate and also let my legs compress a little further on the recovery. I made a recording from the side and it turned out that my shins weren't going as vertical as I thought they were which I believe what was hampering my drive. By letting them 'compress' to vertical I am now able to really accelerate hard with my legs followed by my body and arms on the bar. I'm not getting the fatigue in my arms like I was before and it feels much more evenly spread between my legs, arms and body.