Thoughts on equipment for "rate of force" development
Discussion
we used a prototype version by a compnay called SAQ ( this is going back maybe 10 or 12 years) which i think still make something similar - but they also did a version that was basically just the bungies and the belt, you had long grass spikes on the other end of the bungies to you stuck those into the lawn at the 'corners' of your jumping area and just jumped on the grass - way cheaper than buying the floor plate. and what we thought we might do is concrete some stainless eye bolts into the ground / lawn so much easier to clip and unclip when using...
weighted vest that I had was made of canvas, and had about 10 pockets running around it that you slipped in sausage shaped canvas bags full of sand/ something heavy - weighted about 20kg when full... remember one training trip to the U.S. I wore it onto the plane under my jacket rather than putting throug check in due to the weight, and excess baggae charges.... cant see that going down so well these days....especially if you know what they look like....can you imagine taking your jacket off at 20,000 feet to reveal that....
weighted vest that I had was made of canvas, and had about 10 pockets running around it that you slipped in sausage shaped canvas bags full of sand/ something heavy - weighted about 20kg when full... remember one training trip to the U.S. I wore it onto the plane under my jacket rather than putting throug check in due to the weight, and excess baggae charges.... cant see that going down so well these days....especially if you know what they look like....can you imagine taking your jacket off at 20,000 feet to reveal that....
Halb said:
Which weight vest do you use?
Also, have you any tips for when one starts to plateau on powercleans?
plateau on power cleans... yes...Also, have you any tips for when one starts to plateau on powercleans?
lots of heavy clean pulls/ and power shrugs(heavy as you can) and lots of sets ( but low reps) of very deep front squats ( a front squat frame is a good investment), combined with squat jumps....- got up to a very silly weight on those- so make sure your back is ok before you try them...
Jeux said:
we used a prototype version by a compnay called SAQ ( this is going back maybe 10 or 12 years) which i think still make something similar - but they also did a version that was basically just the bungies and the belt, you had long grass spikes on the other end of the bungies to you stuck those into the lawn at the 'corners' of your jumping area and just jumped on the grass - way cheaper than buying the floor plate. and what we thought we might do is concrete some stainless eye bolts into the ground / lawn so much easier to clip and unclip when using...
Interesting, thanks. Did you rate it then and, as I must have missed this in previous posts, what sport/ event/ purpose were you training for and using it for?
Jeux said:
lots of heavy clean pulls/ and power shrugs(heavy as you can) and lots of sets ( but low reps) of very deep front squats ( a front squat frame is a good investment), combined with squat jumps....- got up to a very silly weight on those- so make sure your back is ok before you try them...
Excellent, ta.This is what you mean by clean pull?
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/H...
When you say heavy, should these be heavier than ones clean?
I was doing very low (as low as my arse could go) FSquats. Never done them before and was a lil surprised at how I had to drop weight. I am trying to do wrist/triceps stretches to allow me to move up. I love that contraption, I was also thinking of getting this.
http://www.gymratz.co.uk/sting-ray I have its sister the manta ray and it saves on the bone at the top of my back.
Squat jumps = I squat all the way down and explode back up yes? Ta for the advice!
BMW, sorry to hear that man
, like you say, s
t happens...Halb said:
Jeux said:
lots of heavy clean pulls/ and power shrugs(heavy as you can) and lots of sets ( but low reps) of very deep front squats ( a front squat frame is a good investment), combined with squat jumps....- got up to a very silly weight on those- so make sure your back is ok before you try them...
Excellent, ta.This is what you mean by clean pull?
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/H...
When you say heavy, should these be heavier than ones clean?
I was doing very low (as low as my arse could go) FSquats. Never done them before and was a lil surprised at how I had to drop weight. I am trying to do wrist/triceps stretches to allow me to move up. I love that contraption, I was also thinking of getting this.
http://www.gymratz.co.uk/sting-ray I have its sister the manta ray and it saves on the bone at the top of my back.
Squat jumps = I squat all the way down and explode back up yes? Ta for the advice!
BMW, sorry to hear that man
, like you say, st happens...yes, front squats will hit the quads in quite a different way to back squats , but much more relavent to olympic lifting,
jump squats , only go down to about a half squat then explode up, and catch back down to half squat level...
Lost_BMW said:
Jeux said:
we used a prototype version by a compnay called SAQ ( this is going back maybe 10 or 12 years) which i think still make something similar - but they also did a version that was basically just the bungies and the belt, you had long grass spikes on the other end of the bungies to you stuck those into the lawn at the 'corners' of your jumping area and just jumped on the grass - way cheaper than buying the floor plate. and what we thought we might do is concrete some stainless eye bolts into the ground / lawn so much easier to clip and unclip when using...
Interesting, thanks. Did you rate it then and, as I must have missed this in previous posts, what sport/ event/ purpose were you training for and using it for?Jeux said:
Lost_BMW said:
Jeux said:
we used a prototype version by a compnay called SAQ ( this is going back maybe 10 or 12 years) which i think still make something similar - but they also did a version that was basically just the bungies and the belt, you had long grass spikes on the other end of the bungies to you stuck those into the lawn at the 'corners' of your jumping area and just jumped on the grass - way cheaper than buying the floor plate. and what we thought we might do is concrete some stainless eye bolts into the ground / lawn so much easier to clip and unclip when using...
Interesting, thanks. Did you rate it then and, as I must have missed this in previous posts, what sport/ event/ purpose were you training for and using it for?For me it's about maximising speed and power of punch delivery and kicks from a range of starting/intermediate positions and stances and different angles. My main thing is to be able to torque the body as fast and powerfully as possible using the hips, trunk, glutes and legs to initiate and 'snap' the delivery as fast and hard as possible.
I'm working on the static/ absolute strength bit for the lower body etc. with deadlifts, shrugs/power shrugs and front squats + kettlebell/ sandbags/ weights for hip 'flings' (the swinging from between or at the sides of the legs type of stuff). I'd like to do more jumping etc. but am having trouble with my knee at the moment. On top of that a persistant issue with my inner elbow/bicep tendon + damaged discs in my lower spine mean cleans etc. might be a problem?
Otherwise - and hence the interest in the Vertimax - it's been rotational work or punch mimicking with cables as resistance, throwing a sandbag/ medicine balls - including the corded Tornado ball, a baseball bat (surprisingly a great exercise!) and by punching out with/ rotating a weighted Olympic Bar mounted in plate on the floor until I get the 'grappler' which is way over £100 even for the one bar version.
So, I think I'm probably doing a pretty good range of functional exercises but with my changing 'situation' won't have the space for all the equipment I had at 'home' so need to rationalise and wondered if the Vertimax might be a compact enough and versatile help.
From what you say it looks like it could work albeit not the only way to achieve the same ends?
Halb said:
Got that grappler yet?
I put a barbell in the corner and load with eights to do a swing motion, trying to get my sides.
No mate, not yet - divorce stops play!I put a barbell in the corner and load with eights to do a swing motion, trying to get my sides.
But, I will get one and, coincidence this, have just finished my back workout with 2 sets of the fake job I mentioned before. I put the bar into two 10Kg rubber plates, so a decent depth, on top of a judo mat, then got into a boxing stance and did 100 reps with each arm with no extra weight, as fast/explosive as possible, then 65 reps each with a 20Kg plate. I saw Rashad Evans and Michael Bisping doing it in the last UC Countdown show.
I really rate this exercise - I can feel it in hips, legs, side and especially rear delt, lat and scapular area, It makes my back so sore if I don't do it for a week or two that I now do it as part of my back day rather than with shoulders. Trying to pull the bar back in fast is the hard bit and what I reckon causes the soreness.
I'm sure the Grappler will be much better and the handles it comes with will help on trunk days when I swing it from side to side in a semi circle, probably like you're doing? I also load it with one or two 20Kg plates and lift it up in and out of the slot for reps which hits my abs/front well.
Halb said:
Got that grappler yet?
I put a barbell in the corner and load with eights to do a swing motion, trying to get my sides.
Finally got it about 2 weeks ago, the 2 bar version from here . .I put a barbell in the corner and load with eights to do a swing motion, trying to get my sides.
http://www.gymequipment.uk.com/store/item/368xs/Sp...
. . and have now finished setting up the garage gym I've 'inherited' which I've now pretty much built around it.
Reason being it's every bit as good or better than I thought it would be - certainly better than the home made version because of the way it swivels in every direction on smooth bearings.
It needs a lot of space with the two 7' Olympic bars but seems very versatile - we've only just touched on the things we could do with it. So far have used it for push presses/squat presses, standing shoulder press (c. 45 degree angle), bent rows, reverse flyes and landmines/side twists. Each one has led to a lot of soreness (growth?!) for a few days post workout.
It feels great for rows and the way you can tweak the effect by altering the angle is interesting + moving further back to the base makes it harder so it's easy to vary the effort without always having to add or remove plates, like for warm ups or drop sets.
I think this one will be a keeper . .
Halb said:
Looks good, cheaper than the one here.
Also, that ROFD thingy, Todd Duffee is in the latest Mens Health and that thing is an important aspect of this training week, to improve on ballistic power.
He also uses a trap/bull bar for deadlifts, looks interesting.
Cheers - it's definitely got me fired up again, very, very versatile and really controllable. As it happens I also got a trap bar from them - the cheaper single hand version.Also, that ROFD thingy, Todd Duffee is in the latest Mens Health and that thing is an important aspect of this training week, to improve on ballistic power.
He also uses a trap/bull bar for deadlifts, looks interesting.
I've used it for deadlifts twice now and it does seem to take some strain off the lower back and put more on the legs, weighted standing jumps and Farmer's Walk which is ace if hard. It's also brilliant for shrugs - really focusses the effect on the whole trap area including middle back - and bent rows too, a good position and grip which makes an interesting change of style.
I only buy Muscle & Fitness if they have articles on athletes like fighters and did get the latest which has an article about Todd Duffee's training, and ironically he uses the Vertimax that I mentioned to start this thread! I'll look up Mens Health too.
Are you still reading Fighting Fit? I've just got the latest and it's pretty good again.
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