High-intensity interval training HIIT
Discussion
after some advice in an area of my training that I'm not too adept in & I think a fair few of you on here are pretty well clued up on the fitness side of things 
not a big fan of talking about myself tbo but I guess it's necessary really 
25 years of natural training since I was 15, mainly weights as I was a competitive B.Builder in my early years, I'm happy with my muscle mass, last ten years I've introduced more & more varied CV to improve my condition and stamina, and reduced the weights & time in gym to a point of maintaining muscle mass. have a handle on my diet and can comfortably control my BMI so as to float between 13 & 15% for BF, but would like to drop into the 11-12% zone as a constant.
So I'm looking to improve my fitness / stamina level through the High impact and Low impact aerobics I already do.
This is where it gets difficult, as I think the norms applied to most runners cyclists etc may be difficult for me to implement due to my size and weight / impact on joints etc.
In a week at the moment I manage 6 days training, 3 x gym + 3 x Aerobics
1 x 1.5 hrs power walk
1 x 1 hr moderate cycle
1 x 40 min run (moderate pace)
the other 3 days are spent in the gym where I train at a slightly increased pace to increase HR rather than build outright muscle (25 x sets with 60sec rests, 10 min warm up, 5 min cool down)
Having gained the knowledge I needed in order to achieve what I wanted to do early on, I am now entering an area that I know very little about
+ i dont want to hurt my joints as I'm now in my 40s & just under 16 stone.
so was wondering how I could up my game slightly in the fitness area without just adding 'more time on the road'
I dont (& haven't for many years) read much on Health & fitness so excuse my catching up
Bought a HR monitor yesterday, then read up on fat burn zone etc, happened across HIIT & there were claims of it being 3 x more effective at increasing fitness and fat burning? if true
Had a quick go last: 1 x min sprints followed by 1 x min rest repeated x 10, I was pretty knackered but it felt good, much better on my joints than the 40 min run I normally do as well.
My questions are..
1) Do you guys rate HIIT, if so, what are your experiences & practrices
2) what other forms of exercise do you work your HIIT into (we have a pool so swimming is possas is cycling, running, walking, rather keep off gym CV eq as would mean additional days in gym)
3) are there some
variations on HIIT that can mix it up even more as I progress
4) is keeping your heart between an upper and lower point more effective
5) any podcasts that would mentor you through these sessions
Sorry for the long drawn out questions and boring information but couldn't see any other way of putting it
not a big fan of talking about myself tbo but I guess it's necessary really 25 years of natural training since I was 15, mainly weights as I was a competitive B.Builder in my early years, I'm happy with my muscle mass, last ten years I've introduced more & more varied CV to improve my condition and stamina, and reduced the weights & time in gym to a point of maintaining muscle mass. have a handle on my diet and can comfortably control my BMI so as to float between 13 & 15% for BF, but would like to drop into the 11-12% zone as a constant.
So I'm looking to improve my fitness / stamina level through the High impact and Low impact aerobics I already do.
This is where it gets difficult, as I think the norms applied to most runners cyclists etc may be difficult for me to implement due to my size and weight / impact on joints etc.
In a week at the moment I manage 6 days training, 3 x gym + 3 x Aerobics
1 x 1.5 hrs power walk
1 x 1 hr moderate cycle
1 x 40 min run (moderate pace)
the other 3 days are spent in the gym where I train at a slightly increased pace to increase HR rather than build outright muscle (25 x sets with 60sec rests, 10 min warm up, 5 min cool down)
Having gained the knowledge I needed in order to achieve what I wanted to do early on, I am now entering an area that I know very little about
+ i dont want to hurt my joints as I'm now in my 40s & just under 16 stone. so was wondering how I could up my game slightly in the fitness area without just adding 'more time on the road'
I dont (& haven't for many years) read much on Health & fitness so excuse my catching up
Bought a HR monitor yesterday, then read up on fat burn zone etc, happened across HIIT & there were claims of it being 3 x more effective at increasing fitness and fat burning? if true
Had a quick go last: 1 x min sprints followed by 1 x min rest repeated x 10, I was pretty knackered but it felt good, much better on my joints than the 40 min run I normally do as well.
My questions are..
1) Do you guys rate HIIT, if so, what are your experiences & practrices
2) what other forms of exercise do you work your HIIT into (we have a pool so swimming is possas is cycling, running, walking, rather keep off gym CV eq as would mean additional days in gym)
3) are there some
variations on HIIT that can mix it up even more as I progress4) is keeping your heart between an upper and lower point more effective
5) any podcasts that would mentor you through these sessions
Sorry for the long drawn out questions and boring information but couldn't see any other way of putting it
Edited by Pvapour on Saturday 26th March 08:59
Not sure how helpful this is but I also do 3 days in the gym and 2x 7Km run per week. Don't know what my BMI is but I am "dry" as it were.
Sorry to hijack but I'd be most interested to have details of your three day split as it sounds like you know what you're doing!
I'll let the specialists give you a better answer for the rest
Sorry to hijack but I'd be most interested to have details of your three day split as it sounds like you know what you're doing!
I'll let the specialists give you a better answer for the rest
Pvapour said:
1) Do you guys rate HIIT, if so, what are your experiences & practrices
2) what other forms of exercise do you work your HIIT into (we have a pool so swimming is possas is cycling, running, walking, rather keep off gym CV eq as would mean additional days in gym)
3) are there some variations on HIIT that can mix it up even more as I progress
4) is keeping your heart between an upper and lower point more effective
5) any podcasts that would mentor you through these sessions
Sorry for the long drawn out questions and boring information but couldn't see any other way of putting it
I've done it for the last 2 years or so, started off on a treadmill doing 1 min @ 5.5kph, then as fast as the treadmill will go for 30 seconds (after allowing it time to spin up from 5.5), repeat x 10. This was an ok introduction and helped a lot for losing weight but was quite limiting due to the acceleration being quite slow.2) what other forms of exercise do you work your HIIT into (we have a pool so swimming is possas is cycling, running, walking, rather keep off gym CV eq as would mean additional days in gym)
3) are there some
variations on HIIT that can mix it up even more as I progress4) is keeping your heart between an upper and lower point more effective
5) any podcasts that would mentor you through these sessions
Sorry for the long drawn out questions and boring information but couldn't see any other way of putting it
Edited by Pvapour on Saturday 26th March 08:59
Nowadays I do it outside - field with a steep slope, sprint flat out up it for 30 seconds - mark where you end up for your distance. walk back down, sprint to mark.. repeat for 10 reps.
2.Other stuff it gets worked into is martial arts training - bag work and sparring. Tried it with swimming and cycling but cycling doesn't work the heart hard enough and swimming theres always people in the way.
3.Variations... use it with different activities
change interval lengths 4.HIIT elevates your heart rate for a long time post exercise compared to steady state aerobic exercise - I went for it as a 'lazy way' of losing fat because my time was more limited.
5.Never found a need for a podcast.. watch with a second hand is good enough
shouldbworking said:
4.HIIT elevates your heart rate for a long time post exercise compared to steady state aerobic exercise - I went for it as a 'lazy way' of losing fat because my time was more limited.
40 minute run into 25 minutes.So shouldbeworking is correct in that regard:however if you want to burn serious calories it's a longer run that you need.
HIIT training,due to its intensive nature and sometimes anaerobic effort,is limited to a short-ish training period.A run at 60 - 70% of your MHR for 40 mins
will burn the same amount of calories,your heart rate will stay elevated just as long.Run for longer and burn more..Don't see many fat middle distance runners do you?
Fact is that your heart rate is raised after any exercise,the more effort involved the higher your heart rate.HIIT does do this well,but it is limited in its application.
So the ideal for you would probably be one HIIT session,one longish run,one crosstraining session.
Have a gander at 'calculating heart rate training zones' and you'll find some info.
HIIT works best with running,and there are a number of different ways to work it into a run eg: fartlek,hills etc.
Runners have used HIIT for ever but used it to boost fitness and speed and called it intervals.Normally practised in the rundown to a race.
There is no substitute for 'time spent on feet' I'm afraid as a hard 1.0 hr run will burn easily more cals than a 25 min HIIT session.
Runners have used HIIT for ever but used it to boost fitness and speed and called it intervals.Normally practised in the rundown to a race.
There is no substitute for 'time spent on feet' I'm afraid as a hard 1.0 hr run will burn easily more cals than a 25 min HIIT session.
shouldbworking said:
I've done it for the last 2 years or so, started off on a treadmill doing 1 min @ 5.5kph, then as fast as the treadmill will go for 30 seconds (after allowing it time to spin up from 5.5), repeat x 10. This was an ok introduction and helped a lot for losing weight but was quite limiting due to the acceleration being quite slow.
Nowadays I do it outside - field with a steep slope, sprint flat out up it for 30 seconds - mark where you end up for your distance. walk back down, sprint to mark.. repeat for 10 reps.
that's Nowadays I do it outside - field with a steep slope, sprint flat out up it for 30 seconds - mark where you end up for your distance. walk back down, sprint to mark.. repeat for 10 reps.
works better with my psyche for some reason, I just went out, ran and then slowed down on a continual path which is a little hard to measure, your way is great for measuring your depletion over 10 identical runs & thus measure your weekly gain is 30 secs a more advanced / strenuous way or just a different approach to keep the body guessing? trying to get a handle on the same principles I use to good effect with my weights.
goldblum said:
HIIT works best with running,and there are a number of different ways to work it into a run eg: fartlek,hills etc.
Runners have used HIIT for ever but used it to boost fitness and speed and called it intervals.Normally practised in the rundown to a race.
There is no substitute for 'time spent on feet' I'm afraid as a hard 1.0 hr run will burn easily more cals than a 25 min HIIT session.
worked out the best fat burn HR zone, 108>128 apparently, HIIT far exceeds that though, peaks @ 172ish and drops too 145 at rest points, so not sure on its fat burning capabilities tbo, maybe more calories burnt but allot from glucose I'd wager.Runners have used HIIT for ever but used it to boost fitness and speed and called it intervals.Normally practised in the rundown to a race.
There is no substitute for 'time spent on feet' I'm afraid as a hard 1.0 hr run will burn easily more cals than a 25 min HIIT session.
I understand your statement around 'time spent on feet' but a longer run would be counter productive for me, at my weight I have to think about joints and conserving them into my latter years, I have taken Glucosamine & condroit for many years and would not be without it, my joints are as good now as they were when I was younger and I'd like to retain that as long as possible, so I am leaning toward the HIIT in as many guises as poss.
we worked toward a life that allowed us to have the time to do the things we wanted, we are there now, so allocating 2 x HIIT sessions in one day is fine, rather than spending an hour on my feet with one long run.
I find that walking or sprinting has much less impact on the joints, its obvious why walking is but the surprise for me was the sprinting, maybe it's the forward inertia combined with more tense muscle tissue? either way it's more comfortable at my weight.
I am finding my heart rate is held higher for a longer time after exercise has stopped, normally after a 40 min run I am monged within 10 mins, the HIIT (did another test this morning) is leaving me more invigorated than tired & my HR noticeably more perky.
I know you say swimming was not as effective but maybe for it would work for someone with a large muscle mass as its much harder work? I'm lucky enough to have no obstacles in our pool so probably worth a go. weirdly i stopped a continual front crawl approach to swimming as I could not sustain it for 20 mins, so I alternated with back stroke, which I guess was a form of HIIT, without knowing it? but I'll tighten up the sprint v rest periods to see if it makes a difference.
eta - Driller, not sure if my 3 day gym program would be suitable for you? unless your after a maintain program for an old fart
Edited by Pvapour on Saturday 26th March 13:06
I'm an advocate of HIT and HIIT training.
HIIT training is particularly useful after a weights session when your glycogen levels are low and the last time I combined it with weights sessions I comfortably got to about 8% bf.
I haven't done it at all over the past 5 months as I've been trying to grow and now am 15st and somewhere around 20% (I try not to look!).
I'm going for sub 10% again in the next 3 months with a combination of carb cycling, weights and fast walks (60% of max).
HIIT did wonderful things to my bodyfat but I did lose some muscle in the process although some of that was down to my own inexperience and not eating enough and also eating the right things.
HIIT training is particularly useful after a weights session when your glycogen levels are low and the last time I combined it with weights sessions I comfortably got to about 8% bf.
I haven't done it at all over the past 5 months as I've been trying to grow and now am 15st and somewhere around 20% (I try not to look!).
I'm going for sub 10% again in the next 3 months with a combination of carb cycling, weights and fast walks (60% of max).
HIIT did wonderful things to my bodyfat but I did lose some muscle in the process although some of that was down to my own inexperience and not eating enough and also eating the right things.
Pvapour said:
1) Do you guys rate HIIT, if so, what are your experiences & practrices
2) what other forms of exercise do you work your HIIT into (we have a pool so swimming is possas is cycling, running, walking, rather keep off gym CV eq as would mean additional days in gym)
3) are there some variations on HIIT that can mix it up even more as I progress
4) is keeping your heart between an upper and lower point more effective
5) any podcasts that would mentor you through these sessions
I'm a great believer in HIIT work. It has been a fundamental part of my training for many years. It covers nearly every aspect of fitness, from fat burning, speed/power and even helps with endurance. I do all mine on a bicycle (which may suit you if you're experiencing joing problems). The efforts can range from 15 seconds right through to over a minute, either on a flat stretch of road or, my favourite, choosing a hill. Rest periods can also vary, between 10 seconds and for the longer intervals, well over a minute. When I was in competition, I would do at least one of these sessions once a week, occasionally two, but they are without question the hardest form of training I've done. 2) what other forms of exercise do you work your HIIT into (we have a pool so swimming is possas is cycling, running, walking, rather keep off gym CV eq as would mean additional days in gym)
3) are there some
variations on HIIT that can mix it up even more as I progress4) is keeping your heart between an upper and lower point more effective
5) any podcasts that would mentor you through these sessions
The beauty of these sessions also, is that you can be done and dusted in 40 minutes (longer if you wish), but still have experienced a very good quality work out.
Pvapour said:
worked out the best fat burn HR zone, 108>128 apparently, HIIT far exceeds that though, peaks @ 172ish and drops too 145 at rest points, so not sure on its fat burning capabilities tbo, maybe more calories burnt but allot from glucose I'd wager.
For your age your fat burn zone is about right at c.108 - 128.Your HIIT session is predominately anaerobic, and also at 145 - 172 25 mins it is too long in this zone.If you want 25 mins of HIIT probably 133 - 155 ish is easily enough!
Nowt wrong with swimming,or rowing for instance...it's just that running offers about the best reward for effort.
I think there seems to be a bit of confusion with what this type of training is. In reality it is as broad a statement as saying what is the best way to weight train and is every bit as technical if not more so.
It all depends on what you want to achieve, like weights you always work around a set % of your maximum. You then can vary everything from speed, intensity, rest etc...
To say that you get fitter from just long runs is just wrong, long runs will only get you fitter at doing long runs. Specificity is key with all training.
Also sprint is used a lot in the above posts but isn't really the correct word. you cannot sprint for 1min then rest for a short time and then sprint again, it isn't physically possible! You need to look at your sessions technically and decide what you want to achieve with it.
It all depends on what you want to achieve, like weights you always work around a set % of your maximum. You then can vary everything from speed, intensity, rest etc...
To say that you get fitter from just long runs is just wrong, long runs will only get you fitter at doing long runs. Specificity is key with all training.
Also sprint is used a lot in the above posts but isn't really the correct word. you cannot sprint for 1min then rest for a short time and then sprint again, it isn't physically possible! You need to look at your sessions technically and decide what you want to achieve with it.
mcelliott said:
goldblum said:
If you want 25 mins of HIIT probably 133 - 155 ish is easily enough!
Genuine question. Can you explain how, using the heart rate band you have quoted, constitutes HIIT?So I lowered both HR value to the zone below so the OP could run for longer with more weightloss reward.So yes...not really HIIT anymore,but as it's
all relative..
goldblum said:
mcelliott said:
goldblum said:
If you want 25 mins of HIIT probably 133 - 155 ish is easily enough!
Genuine question. Can you explain how, using the heart rate band you have quoted, constitutes HIIT?So I lowered both HR value to the zone below so the OP could run for longer with more weightloss reward.So yes...not really HIIT anymore,but as it's
all relative..
bales said:
Also sprint is used a lot in the above posts but isn't really the correct word. you cannot sprint for 1min then rest for a short time and then sprint again, it isn't physically possible! You need to look at your sessions technically and decide what you want to achieve with it.
Not sure what activity you're referring to, but as regards to cycling, that is easily attainable. I have done 100's of 1 minute intervals, with about 1.5 - 2 mins rest in between, and still kept the intensity going through each effort. Heart rate, 3 or 4 beats per minute below absolute maximum each time.If you don't puke, you aren't trying hard enough
I m talking about running but it applies to any activity really, working truely anerobically you have 6-8s of absolutely maximal intensity. With a bit of a lower intensity and crossing into your lactic energy system you can manage approx 40s.
But obviously its all relative to the intensity and how much of your aerobic system you are using.
But after a 400m race which is say 45-50s of intensity for a good runner you will need at least 30mins recovery to get anywhere near a decent recovery.
Also just to add you are talking about hr but that isn't really relevant to sprinting or sprint training as your muscles are working in the absence of oxygen and so your heart and lungs can't supply the amount required hence you rely on your muscular stores. The fact that your heart rate is so high but is maintainble just shows that you are working aerobically - at a very high level naturally - but still aerobically.
But obviously its all relative to the intensity and how much of your aerobic system you are using.
But after a 400m race which is say 45-50s of intensity for a good runner you will need at least 30mins recovery to get anywhere near a decent recovery.
Also just to add you are talking about hr but that isn't really relevant to sprinting or sprint training as your muscles are working in the absence of oxygen and so your heart and lungs can't supply the amount required hence you rely on your muscular stores. The fact that your heart rate is so high but is maintainble just shows that you are working aerobically - at a very high level naturally - but still aerobically.
Edited by bales on Saturday 26th March 15:08
Ordinary_Chap said:
goldblum said:
mcelliott said:
goldblum said:
If you want 25 mins of HIIT probably 133 - 155 ish is easily enough!
Genuine question. Can you explain how, using the heart rate band you have quoted, constitutes HIIT?So I lowered both HR value to the zone below so the OP could run for longer with more weightloss reward.So yes...not really HIIT anymore,but as it's
all relative..
145 - 172 will result in a raised metabolism after the run but at the loss of more cals burnt (in the fat burning zone) by a run at a lower HR zone.
goldblum said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
goldblum said:
mcelliott said:
goldblum said:
If you want 25 mins of HIIT probably 133 - 155 ish is easily enough!
Genuine question. Can you explain how, using the heart rate band you have quoted, constitutes HIIT?So I lowered both HR value to the zone below so the OP could run for longer with more weightloss reward.So yes...not really HIIT anymore,but as it's
all relative..
145 - 172 will result in a raised metabolism after the run but at the loss of more cals burnt (in the fat burning zone) by a run at a lower HR zone.
When I did that form of HIIT the fat literally jumped off me and I know plenty of BB folk who do the same also with great results.
I do understand where you're coming from though and there is a bunch of research that does support that view but then there is plenty to the contrary too!
Ordinary_Chap said:
goldblum said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
goldblum said:
mcelliott said:
goldblum said:
If you want 25 mins of HIIT probably 133 - 155 ish is easily enough!
Genuine question. Can you explain how, using the heart rate band you have quoted, constitutes HIIT?So I lowered both HR value to the zone below so the OP could run for longer with more weightloss reward.So yes...not really HIIT anymore,but as it's
all relative..
145 - 172 will result in a raised metabolism after the run but at the loss of more cals burnt (in the fat burning zone) by a run at a lower HR zone.
When I did that form of HIIT the fat literally jumped off me and I know plenty of BB folk who do the same also with great results.
I do understand where you're coming from though and there is a bunch of research that does support that view but then there is plenty to the contrary too!
Ordinarybloke - is your experience mainly with more BB type guys, are you more like this?
I cant help but think the approach for HIIT to work on someone with a large muscle mass would be significantly different to say a mid distance runner? I certainly wouldn't give the same muscle building advice to someone with a more 'ectomorph' (runner) bias frame as I would a 'mesomorph' bias frame.
what I'm trying to say is, maybe the application of HIIT would need to be tailored to suit the type of body which is why maybe your opinions vary?
I will of course experiment with everything that has been said to see what works best for me but the more info & differing opinions the better
Read an article about HIIT last night, it used middle distance runners as an example saying you could visually see the difference in runners physiques between the ones that used HIIT and those that used more conventional methods (ie run longer and harder), mainly in their mid section and body fat composition, with HIIT users being the leaner. Dont know if thats true & cant say I've ever looked but it made me think...
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