Evora - first 200 models

[Gooby]

bogie said:

anyone know how much the project cost?

£40million

Put that into context, Elise cost £5million.

Average cost of a jap car development is in excess of £100million.

This is serious to Lotus, if Evora doesnt succeed then bye bye Lotus

[LivinLaVidaLotus]

If they make £5k off of each car, then that's 8000 cars to cover the £40m development cost. That's not really a lot of cars in the grand scheme of things, as mentioned previously with Porsche selling 10k cars per month - and I'm sure with option packs and paints etc. they'll make £5k off of most of the Evora sold, if not more. Not only that, I'm sure a great deal of that £40m will be expensed to engineering for development of VVA, so not directly attributable to the Evora itself.

[Scuffers]

LivinLaVidaLotus said:

I'm sure a great deal of that £40m will be expensed to engineering for development of VVA,

I would suggest Aston have already paid a large chunk of that.........

[Gooby]

Not sure about that - VVA has been a seperate project for many years and when I questioned Tony Shute about it, it has been used in other cars.

[peter450]

Scuffers said:

lonefurrow said:

Scuffers said:

dom180 said:

I don't know about heritage - Lotus used to have a fairly successful GP team if I recall - remind me how many F1 constructor championships has Porsche won?

and how many Le-Mans titles have Lotus won?
or GT titles?


(Porsche have only ever been in F1 as an engine supplier under the name TAG, won 2 world championships with them in the back of a Mclaren.)

Er, Dan Gurney won at Rouen in '62 in a factory Porsche 804 (F1), although only after Jim Clark retired his Lotus! Also, in the '80s, it was 2 constructors titles and 3 drivers' (Lauda/Prost/Prost) in '84, '85 and '86.

I stand corrected (although I was on about 2 constructors titles)

forgot about the 804 (bit before my time!), but you are right, and (at the time) a very striking car to look at.

Edited by Scuffers on Monday 18th May 13:58

The problem with the history bit, is lotus may have a great motorsport heritage that can be counted up there with the best of them, but this somehow has not translated into ferrari or Porsche levels of love, Aston and Lambo have a less impressive racing herritage than lotus yet are considerably more desirable

History is all well and good, but it's like an optional extra, and won't carry a bad car, or make the marque really desirable, Lotus have done well of late, the elise has been well recieved and is a return to form, but what they need are seriously good supercars and GT's without that, the brand will never attain the status of porsche, let alone ferrari or any other exotic

Lotus at the moment have a better reputation and the cars are seen as desirable, they need to keep building on that, which is why the Esprit is so crucial to there future, in the high end market, the Evora is a good first step and in the current climate was a wise choice to fastrack over the esprit, but the esprit is very important to lotus in terms of were it's future brand goes

Edited by peter450 on Monday 18th May 18:24

[dom180]

Scuffers said:

lonefurrow said:

Scuffers said:

dom180 said:

I don't know about heritage - Lotus used to have a fairly successful GP team if I recall - remind me how many F1 constructor championships has Porsche won?

and how many Le-Mans titles have Lotus won?
or GT titles?


(Porsche have only ever been in F1 as an engine supplier under the name TAG, won 2 world championships with them in the back of a Mclaren.)

Er, Dan Gurney won at Rouen in '62 in a factory Porsche 804 (F1), although only after Jim Clark retired his Lotus! Also, in the '80s, it was 2 constructors titles and 3 drivers' (Lauda/Prost/Prost) in '84, '85 and '86.

I stand corrected (although I was on about 2 constructors titles)

forgot about the 804 (bit before my time!), but you are right, and (at the time) a very striking car to look at.

Edited by Scuffers on Monday 18th May 13:58

Actually you know it is stretching things to say that the 84 and 85 championships were down to Porsche engines - the design for the engine was specified by John Bernard/TAG to a precise brief - the engines weren't badged as Porsche and Bernard was heavily involved in an iterative design phase with Porsche so as to maximise the integration of the engine/chassis to provide the most aerodynamic advantages.

[andy_s]

Twit said:

I had a letter from Lotus this morning trying to sell me one of the first 200 Evora's in launch spec with the plaque etc. I thought they had all been sold? Apperently not it seems... Did anyone else get one?

It may be that the first 200 have the spec and colour already done, someone spending £50-60K would probably want to spec colour etc to their own wants and be happy to hang on for later in the year rather than getting one in a colour / spec pack they aren't 100% happy with?

[Twit]

You can say the colour etc you want but the first 200 are fully spec'd in terms of packs etc. Basically they are prespec'd cars except fot colour and trim etc, from what I can see.

2 main problems - car looks shocking and is just too expensive!

[bordseye]

peter450 said:

The problem with the history bit, is lotus may have a great motorsport heritage that can be counted up there with the best of them, but this somehow has not translated into ferrari or Porsche levels of love, Aston and Lambo have a less impressive racing herritage than lotus yet are considerably more desirable

Simple reason for that. Lotus got into car manufacture at the bottom end of the market as kit car makers, and their only effort to move a bit upmarket was arguably a failure - the Esprit family. Ferrari and Aston never produced a cheap car and arguably neither did Porker though they arent up there with Fezza either.

Lotus are still not known as a quality car maker which is why they will fail trying to charge quality car prices.

Ita an exagerration but would you pay the same money for a Casio as you would for a Rolex, however good the former watch was?

P.S. And Aston had better watch out - its easy to move downmarket as Rover proved.

Edited by bordseye on Monday 18th May 19:29

[Phil-CH]

bordseye said:

Ita an exagerration but would you pay the same money for a Casio as you would for a Rolex, however good the former watch was?

But the thing is - Casio can succeed in a market that Rolex simply couldn't (or isn't interested to): The electronic gizzmos market. As such, Lotus could succeed in a market they are known for - raw, uncompromised track focused sports cars. However you are right - I don't think they'll succeed in the 'Rolex' market either.

[bordseye]

Phil-CH said:

, Lotus could succeed in a market they are known for - raw, uncompromised track focused sports cars.

Agree 100%

[peter450]

Thats a tiny market, they need to broaden there horizons, Chapman new this, which is why lotus are not still selling 7's

[Scuffers]

peter450 said:

Thats a tiny market, they need to broaden there horizons, Chapman new this, which is why lotus are not still selling 7's

True enough, however, then jumping into the most competitive sector of the market is probably going to end in tears....

I still think what's needed is a new Esprit that can compete on *all* counts with Gallardo/430 etc HEAD ON, with a ~£125K price tag

[TIPPER]

Scuffers said:

peter450 said:

Thats a tiny market, they need to broaden there horizons, Chapman new this, which is why lotus are not still selling 7's

True enough, however, then jumping into the most competitive sector of the market is probably going to end in tears....

I still think what's needed is a new Esprit that can compete on *all* counts with Gallardo/430 etc HEAD ON, with a ~£125K price tag

Fair comment but lets face it they've hardly the experience at Hethel to put a car together that can compete in that market. They've got to build up to it. I'm now convinced the Europa gave the trim guys some practise with leather etc and producing a better cockpit environment. Certain sins can be forgiven at the price point. Move up to £60k and then the quality has to step up and go to £125k and regardless of what's underneath (unless you're thinking of an expenwsive track toy) and quality has to take another leap. You can just go from Elises/Exiges to £125k super car levels of buyer expectation in one step.
Lets not get too carried away in condeming a car that none of us have yet driven and l;ets also remember the original target for the Elise when it was introduced. At the moment there isn't a directly competing product to the Evora (£60kish loaded 2+2). The Elise more or less invented the usable track day car (far more usable than Lotus originally intended) and Lotus never expected to have the hit that the Elise has been.
Lets give the Evora a chance. I applaud Lotus: you're not going to pinch sales from Porsche etc by building a copy of what they do.

[bogie]

Scuffers said:

peter450 said:

Thats a tiny market, they need to broaden there horizons, Chapman new this, which is why lotus are not still selling 7's

True enough, however, then jumping into the most competitive sector of the market is probably going to end in tears....

I still think what's needed is a new Esprit that can compete on *all* counts with Gallardo/430 etc HEAD ON, with a ~£125K price tag

Thats exactly what Kimberley said when he took over again, so lets hope thats what they are working on

[Gooby]

bogie said:

Scuffers said:

peter450 said:

Thats a tiny market, they need to broaden there horizons, Chapman new this, which is why lotus are not still selling 7's

True enough, however, then jumping into the most competitive sector of the market is probably going to end in tears....

I still think what's needed is a new Esprit that can compete on *all* counts with Gallardo/430 etc HEAD ON, with a ~£125K price tag

Thats exactly what Kimberley said when he took over again, so lets hope thats what they are working on

The Lotus aim is to have a full range of cars that are sellable in every market

[bogie]

so when are they going to do the 4 x 4 and the estate ?

[braddo]

Hmm, a Lotus along the lines of a Bowler Wildcat - I'd like to see that!

I'm very hopeful for the Evora. I think there's enough of a hankering in the market for a Porsche alternative that they shouldn't struggle to sell a couple of thousand units a year.

Surely the weak pound will help a bit in Europe/US too.

[Stu_00]

Europeans do see Lotus as a premium brand, so with the weak pound they should sell a fair number in europe and I guess maybe the US (Not sure what the plans are the US market .....)

braddo said:

Hmm, a Lotus along the lines of a Bowler Wildcat - I'd like to see that!

I'm very hopeful for the Evora. I think there's enough of a hankering in the market for a Porsche alternative that they shouldn't struggle to sell a couple of thousand units a year.

Surely the weak pound will help a bit in Europe/US too.

[Gooby]

braddo said:

Hmm, a Lotus along the lines of a Bowler Wildcat - I'd like to see that!

I'm very hopeful for the Evora. I think there's enough of a hankering in the market for a Porsche alternative that they shouldn't struggle to sell a couple of thousand units a year.

Surely the weak pound will help a bit in Europe/US too.

They did "show car" a 4 door family car a couple of years ago...