Why so little buzz
Discussion
RobM77 said:
I really don't like writing that, because the Lotus community is small and I think the whole car company is marvellous, but really, the styling should never have been signed off the way it is, it's too simple a thing to get wrong for a car that could have potentially made so much money for Lotus.
Your viewpoint, and one I can't agree with. It's fair to say that the Elise Mk 1 was pretty (and still is), but to write off the Evora as ugly is pretty harsh. As a larger car, it's using a language that's different from the little Elise and that does come as a surprise when you've got used to little Lotii. The M250 was also quite a surprise in the flesh - as another 'big brother' to the Elise it suffered from looking quite small and svelte in pictures, but much more in your face in person. For me the Evora works - it's definitely a Lotus, it looks far more muscular and 'solid' than its little sister and it has details that reward repeat viewing. Maybe not an all time classic, but certainly not ugly.In the grand scheme of things, it's surprising how some cars fit their wheels better as we get used to them. The Porsche and original Europa spring to mind - both have rather surpassed their original design and can't be seen with fresh eyes.
Tuna said:
RobM77 said:
I really don't like writing that, because the Lotus community is small and I think the whole car company is marvellous, but really, the styling should never have been signed off the way it is, it's too simple a thing to get wrong for a car that could have potentially made so much money for Lotus.
Your viewpoint, and one I can't agree with. It's fair to say that the Elise Mk 1 was pretty (and still is), but to write off the Evora as ugly is pretty harsh. As a larger car, it's using a language that's different from the little Elise and that does come as a surprise when you've got used to little Lotii. The M250 was also quite a surprise in the flesh - as another 'big brother' to the Elise it suffered from looking quite small and svelte in pictures, but much more in your face in person. For me the Evora works - it's definitely a Lotus, it looks far more muscular and 'solid' than its little sister and it has details that reward repeat viewing. Maybe not an all time classic, but certainly not ugly.In the grand scheme of things, it's surprising how some cars fit their wheels better as we get used to them. The Porsche and original Europa spring to mind - both have rather surpassed their original design and can't be seen with fresh eyes.
Beauty can only ever be subjective. I'm not a huge fan of the looks of the Elise Mk1, but I'd certainly buy one. I'm fairly resilient to styling generally, and have often bought cars that I've not really liked the look of much (any BMW for starters - and I've had four!). You're right, the Europa's not the best looking car ever, but I'd certainly own one, likewise the M250 that you mention. The Evora though I lump into a different box to the "not that great looking but I don't mind", and sadly for me it's in the "oh dear, could I really live with it?". Just personal though 
Find this interesting.....I like the Evora...I think....It's one of those cars that looks better in the flesh than in pics. But one thing has stuck me. When the car came out it had great reviews and it is without a shadow a great car..But the same cars are still for sale in the classifieds that went up for sale in the beginning....They just don't seem to shift. Is it the current climate...I would have to say no. My friend is a Porsche sales man and they are selling used 911's for the same sort of money daily...they can not get enough of them. All the current press favs seem to be selling well but not the Evora...
I really want this Lotus to do well as it's a cracking drive but you can not ignore the price which I now has been discussed a thousand times....Right or wrongly customers who spend 50k/60k on a car like to have their egos massaged with big BHP figures and that means 300bhp plus whether the car needs it or not. Also Lotus are now renowed for light weight track/road cars and they need to be looking hard on how to change the image to a more all round sports car maker and drag in the Porsche/BMW etc crowd...Maybe they need the new Esprit ASAP to inject a new level into the range and give the range the halo effect.
I have had 8 Lotus over the years and would really love the Evore to be number 9 but not at 50k plus....When these cars get closer to 40k on the 2nd hand market I think you will find that there will be a lot more owners on here and they will start to fly out of the show rooms.....Just my thoughts.
I really want this Lotus to do well as it's a cracking drive but you can not ignore the price which I now has been discussed a thousand times....Right or wrongly customers who spend 50k/60k on a car like to have their egos massaged with big BHP figures and that means 300bhp plus whether the car needs it or not. Also Lotus are now renowed for light weight track/road cars and they need to be looking hard on how to change the image to a more all round sports car maker and drag in the Porsche/BMW etc crowd...Maybe they need the new Esprit ASAP to inject a new level into the range and give the range the halo effect.
I have had 8 Lotus over the years and would really love the Evore to be number 9 but not at 50k plus....When these cars get closer to 40k on the 2nd hand market I think you will find that there will be a lot more owners on here and they will start to fly out of the show rooms.....Just my thoughts.
another sensible chap on the other thread has chosen evora over amv8 and R8. Difficult to get the trad porsche buyers into a lotus showroom. One of my colleagues who knows little about cars just bought a 911, cos that's what you do, right?
I believe sales in Europe are very strong. Too many of the current lotus owners find the price a psychological barrier to entry - but in itself I find that confusing - a well specced exige tips the scales at over 40k. An evora at 50 is hence bargain of the decade.
Indeed a topic done to death but ultimately I think the demographic and profile of the evora buyer is quite different to that of elise / exige. Getting the product in front of the correct audience is the challenge.
I think lotus will show the new model range inc esprit at the Paris motorshow later this year - plainly they are serious about targetting the 50k + sector given the numerous hires of late from ferrari and beyond.
I believe sales in Europe are very strong. Too many of the current lotus owners find the price a psychological barrier to entry - but in itself I find that confusing - a well specced exige tips the scales at over 40k. An evora at 50 is hence bargain of the decade.
Indeed a topic done to death but ultimately I think the demographic and profile of the evora buyer is quite different to that of elise / exige. Getting the product in front of the correct audience is the challenge.
I think lotus will show the new model range inc esprit at the Paris motorshow later this year - plainly they are serious about targetting the 50k + sector given the numerous hires of late from ferrari and beyond.
Yep agree...it's a different sector that Lotus have to work hard to break. I remember the days of Elan/Excel/Esprit which gave Lotus cars in a number of sectors and different customers. Then the fantastic Elise came along and the customer base changed. Now Lotus are begining to appeal to 'different' customers but getting them in the show rooms will not be easy.......Lets hope they succeed as it's more money in the bank for even more great Lotus cars.
I've picked up an Evora road test car from Norfolk HQ on Wednesday and I'll be rather sorry to see it go next Tuesday. It's one of few cars that has sparked some sort of aspiration to own one at some point in the past decade. But that's enough about me - some observations about the reactions to the car:
Everyone knows Lotus, but most of even the keener car enthusiasts here had not heard of the Evora yet.
Everyone to a man agrees that it's a very pretty car in the flesh and that it's got proper exotic flair. My dad especially seems to covet it when sat on his drive.
Also build, finish and interior appointment seem to attract unanimously positive comments - something of a first for the marque!
Over here the base Evora costs 78K euro - to give you an idea, a TVR Chimaera/Griffith 500 would have set you back about the same here ten years ago and nowadays a base R8 goes for twice the money.
As a baby exotic with proper 'supercar' architecture and X-factor it basically sits in no mans land pricewise even before you consider the practicality of having a mass-market drivetrain from Toyota (which should ensure lowish running costs if you are running one as your daily car - no 5,000 mile clutch replacement intervals here!) and 2+2(ish) accommodation. Only competition at this price is Boxster/Cayman/Z4 etc - neither of which feel remotely as special.
I think the biggest problem is awareness - it's the first entry of the brand in this market segment for a very long time and people just don't expect this sort of car from Lotus. As one of the engineers in the racing/tuning shop where we rolling road our test cars (who support lots of roadgoing and track Lotii among others) put it: 'Hey, they're also making nice cars now!'.
Everyone knows Lotus, but most of even the keener car enthusiasts here had not heard of the Evora yet.
Everyone to a man agrees that it's a very pretty car in the flesh and that it's got proper exotic flair. My dad especially seems to covet it when sat on his drive.
Also build, finish and interior appointment seem to attract unanimously positive comments - something of a first for the marque!
Over here the base Evora costs 78K euro - to give you an idea, a TVR Chimaera/Griffith 500 would have set you back about the same here ten years ago and nowadays a base R8 goes for twice the money.
As a baby exotic with proper 'supercar' architecture and X-factor it basically sits in no mans land pricewise even before you consider the practicality of having a mass-market drivetrain from Toyota (which should ensure lowish running costs if you are running one as your daily car - no 5,000 mile clutch replacement intervals here!) and 2+2(ish) accommodation. Only competition at this price is Boxster/Cayman/Z4 etc - neither of which feel remotely as special.
I think the biggest problem is awareness - it's the first entry of the brand in this market segment for a very long time and people just don't expect this sort of car from Lotus. As one of the engineers in the racing/tuning shop where we rolling road our test cars (who support lots of roadgoing and track Lotii among others) put it: 'Hey, they're also making nice cars now!'.
mota said:
The Car is crying out for more Power. 350 or better still 400 bhp and they would sell. I,m waiting and know others are too.
You driven one? I picked mine up on Saturday, and still obviously running it in, but its plenty quick enough for me. Everyone always wants more power though!
Rather surprisingly, the one we had made 300 PS on the rollers rather than the promised 280, with just about the widest and flattest torque curve I've seen. I'd say it goes well enough, the onl thing holding it back is the extremely tall standard gearing (which does keep cabin noise and fuel consumption down, tho'); 't should be a lot more responsive in the higher gears with the close-ratio option.
I'd say it goes well enough, the onl thing holding it back is the extremely tall standard gearing (which does keep cabin noise and fuel consumption down, tho'); 't should be a lot more responsive in the higher gears with the close-ratio option.900T-R said:
Rather surprisingly, the one we had made 300 PS on the rollers rather than the promised 280, with just about the widest and flattest torque curve I've seen. I'd say it goes well enough, the onl thing holding it back is the extremely tall standard gearing (which does keep cabin noise and fuel consumption down, tho'); 't should be a lot more responsive in the higher gears with the close-ratio option.
It must weigh more than 1350kg then. I'd say it goes well enough, the onl thing holding it back is the extremely tall standard gearing (which does keep cabin noise and fuel consumption down, tho'); 't should be a lot more responsive in the higher gears with the close-ratio option.NoelWatson said:
900T-R said:
Rather surprisingly, the one we had made 300 PS on the rollers rather than the promised 280, with just about the widest and flattest torque curve I've seen. I'd say it goes well enough, the onl thing holding it back is the extremely tall standard gearing (which does keep cabin noise and fuel consumption down, tho'); 't should be a lot more responsive in the higher gears with the close-ratio option.
It must weigh more than 1350kg then. I'd say it goes well enough, the onl thing holding it back is the extremely tall standard gearing (which does keep cabin noise and fuel consumption down, tho'); 't should be a lot more responsive in the higher gears with the close-ratio option.dom180 said:
NoelWatson said:
900T-R said:
Rather surprisingly, the one we had made 300 PS on the rollers rather than the promised 280, with just about the widest and flattest torque curve I've seen. I'd say it goes well enough, the onl thing holding it back is the extremely tall standard gearing (which does keep cabin noise and fuel consumption down, tho'); 't should be a lot more responsive in the higher gears with the close-ratio option.
It must weigh more than 1350kg then. I'd say it goes well enough, the onl thing holding it back is the extremely tall standard gearing (which does keep cabin noise and fuel consumption down, tho'); 't should be a lot more responsive in the higher gears with the close-ratio option.NoelWatson said:
dom180 said:
NoelWatson said:
900T-R said:
Rather surprisingly, the one we had made 300 PS on the rollers rather than the promised 280, with just about the widest and flattest torque curve I've seen. I'd say it goes well enough, the onl thing holding it back is the extremely tall standard gearing (which does keep cabin noise and fuel consumption down, tho'); 't should be a lot more responsive in the higher gears with the close-ratio option.
It must weigh more than 1350kg then. I'd say it goes well enough, the onl thing holding it back is the extremely tall standard gearing (which does keep cabin noise and fuel consumption down, tho'); 't should be a lot more responsive in the higher gears with the close-ratio option.For me in an increasingly regulated UK, the performance was fine though. If I drove a Macca F1 or R500 I'd loose my license in a week.
I have seen a few of these Evoras on the road and parked up and I think they look great, far more attractive than anything in the current Porsche stable and BMW stables (since the Carrera GT and E46 M3 respectively IMO).
Keep it up Lotus, however a tune up package (SC perhaps) raising power by 50-100hp would surely silence most of the critics.
Keep it up Lotus, however a tune up package (SC perhaps) raising power by 50-100hp would surely silence most of the critics.
To my mind they completely missed a trick, like it or not brand is very important these days.
Saying to the skirt in the office 5 drive a lotus does not cut the mustard, they should have moved the game forward, saying that as me and a mate were discussing last week; if you're a teacher and you wants a sports car its got to be a lotus.
Therefore they are probably very happy.
Saying to the skirt in the office 5 drive a lotus does not cut the mustard, they should have moved the game forward, saying that as me and a mate were discussing last week; if you're a teacher and you wants a sports car its got to be a lotus.
Therefore they are probably very happy.
Lotus's problem is they sort the handling then the brakes and when it comes to power it,s that will do. They have the ability to wipe the floor with the opposition at an affordable price but don,t follow through. If only they ask the customer what they want and by all means still make a less powerful version for those that don't want the high performance.
birdcage said:
if you're a teacher and you wants a sports car its got to be a lotus.
I've never met a teacher who can afford to buy and run a Lotus! Most Elise owners that I know are 25-35 year olds working in IT 
Your point remains true though - possibly some people don't want an image associated with geeks. The image of Porsches and BWMs is arguably worse though.Edited by RobM77 on Monday 12th July 10:15
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