Where does Evora fit into Lotus's future?

[jazzyjeff]

Sicob said:

2013 is the end. It doesn't fit in the line-up.

What 'line-up'? They are concepts, no more.

I hear the new Boxster/Cayman is out in 2013. I wouldn't buy one in the interim if I were you

JJ

[Sicob]

jazzyjeff said:

Sicob said:

2013 is the end. It doesn't fit in the line-up.

What 'line-up'? They are concepts, no more.

I hear the new Boxster/Cayman is out in 2013. I wouldn't buy one in the interim if I were you

JJ

Lotus announced the demise in an interview. Don't shoot the messenger!

I presume that if they go with their concepts then the Evora no longer fits!

[Scuffers]

some of this may be down to Toyota not making that engine after 2013, after all, they gave it's end of life notice before the Evora was launched (in much the same way they did with the 2ZZ in the Elise).

[S Works]

The Evora had to be launched as a test bed for VVA. It's essentially now a production development mule for the system, without which the new range would have been an unviable gamble (GLOL, can't believe I actually typed that!).

[Scuffers]

S Works said:

The Evora had to be launched as a test bed for VVA. It's essentially now a production development mule for the system, without which the new range would have been an unviable gamble (GLOL, can't believe I actually typed that!).

if that was the case, what do you call the work they did on the Aston then? pre-launch-test-bed?

[S Works]

Scuffers said:

S Works said:

The Evora had to be launched as a test bed for VVA. It's essentially now a production development mule for the system, without which the new range would have been an unviable gamble (GLOL, can't believe I actually typed that!).

if that was the case, what do you call the work they did on the Aston then? pre-launch-test-bed?

What I mean is, that getting the Evora out there proved that they (Lotus) could make it viable for those who'd buy into the brand at a higher price point, and then have a jumping off point which makes another step up possible, and likely. As far as I understand it, they helped Aston to create their own VVA equivalent - VH - and indeed worked with Jag too, no? Until Evora though they'd not produced anything in volume under VVA had they? Nor had they pushed the levels of interior fit and finish above Elise levels, and so on and so forth. I doubt any funding that they've secured for the future range is contingent on the Evora's success, but I'd be surprised if it didn't form part of the business case.

But then you may know better than me, in which case I'd be happy to be educated! The floor is yours...

[Scuffers]

that's a marketing statement, not a development mule then?

Aston's cost £££ (compared to Loti) and do very well running a VVA based chassis

[S Works]

Scuffers said:

that's a marketing statement, not a development mule then?

Aston's cost £££ (compared to Loti) and do very well running a VVA based chassis

It helps Lotus show potential investors that VVA can be deployed quickly and effectively, and in a product which can win plaudits from the people who count - the motoring press. It's one thing to come up with an idea, another to execute it successfully.

Getting an award winning car out in short order that attracts a segment of buyers who were previously not Lotus customers, or attracts the Elige segment to trade-up is a step-change in modern Lotus' ability to manufacture, and sell.

You yourself know that development costs are a huge outlay, and recovery of them takes a long time. Being able to test that architecture in a production application, rather than just with a limited testing application, for several years whilst they finalise the new line-up is surely going to help them learn a lot about what they'll need to develop. So in that respect I believe the Evora will help Lotus learn a lot about their concept, whilst developing a real product. Look at the reviews that the S is getting. Already they're evolving the car with the benefit of the run-out of the first set of NA cars and reaping the rewards.

Short answer, they've managed to do both with the Evora - marketing and engineering beta test which customers are contributing to the costs of. Whether that's intended or accidental, it's a good move.

Edited by S Works on Sunday 19th December 22:26

[Scuffers]

Not sure I understand the argument here?

Aston used Lotus/VVA for the DB9:



I think that was demonstration enough that the concept worked, after all, how many DB9's have been sold?


The Evora may well be a great car, and from what I have seen/driven, it's good, BUT, it's fatally flawed by somebody setting the wrong marketing goals.

look at the way the press all fauned over it, told us it was so much better than the Cayman etc etc, however, do you see a single one of them actually ponying up the money to buy one?

Sales have been shocking, Lotus will have lost a medium sized fortune on it by now, how is that a good thing?

I would suggest that this as much as anything else have been responsible for Dannyboy getting his foot in the door.

[Tuna]

Scuffers said:

Not sure I understand the argument here?

Aston used Lotus/VVA for the DB9:

It's not just the chassis though is it, it's all the rest that goes in a car with more trimmings than the Elise, the alterations in their own production line and the cost engineering that allows them to price the car well. Sure, Aston have taken a chassis from them, but Lotus have to show they can do the 'whole package' if they're going to make money from the technology beyond consultancy fees.

Scuffers said:

The Evora may well be a great car, and from what I have seen/driven, it's good, BUT, it's fatally flawed by somebody setting the wrong marketing goals.

It's still pretty early to call time on the Evora. The most optimistic sales numbers they were quoting were never going to flood the roads with them. The turn around in perception of the brand, and the out reach of the dealer network (and expansion in places like the US) were never going to happen over night.

The Evora was always going to be the warm up for the main act. OK, so originally it was just going to be the Esprit rather than five new cars, but unlike the Elise this was about changing the company far more than just launching yet another well respected car and hoping sales would keep things ticking over.

Scuffers said:

look at the way the press all fauned over it, told us it was so much better than the Cayman etc etc, however, do you see a single one of them actually ponying up the money to buy one?

Sales have been shocking, Lotus will have lost a medium sized fortune on it by now, how is that a good thing?

I would suggest that this as much as anything else have been responsible for Dannyboy getting his foot in the door.

'Dannyboy' is going to be a marmite figure, and may be held responsible if Lotus fail. However, I can't imagine for one moment that this single guy is dragging the company, it's parent company and a whole heap of well respected new hires around without them actually wanting to be in on the ride.

[Scuffers]

Tuna said:

Scuffers said:

Not sure I understand the argument here?

Aston used Lotus/VVA for the DB9:

It's not just the chassis though is it, it's all the rest that goes in a car with more trimmings than the Elise, the alterations in their own production line and the cost engineering that allows them to price the car well. Sure, Aston have taken a chassis from them, but Lotus have to show they can do the 'whole package' if they're going to make money from the technology beyond consultancy fees.

think Lotus still own the company that makes the chassis (for Aston) so a little more than "just the consultancy fees"

Tuna said:

Scuffers said:

The Evora may well be a great car, and from what I have seen/driven, it's good, BUT, it's fatally flawed by somebody setting the wrong marketing goals.

It's still pretty early to call time on the Evora. The most optimistic sales numbers they were quoting were never going to flood the roads with them. The turn around in perception of the brand, and the out reach of the dealer network (and expansion in places like the US) were never going to happen over night.

The Evora was always going to be the warm up for the main act. OK, so originally it was just going to be the Esprit rather than five new cars, but unlike the Elise this was about changing the company far more than just launching yet another well respected car and hoping sales would keep things ticking over.

that makes no sense?

Lotus had very limited funds to spend on developing the next car, the Esprit replacement is the obvious one, but my guess is that they considered the risks economically of it were worse than a 'cheaper' Evora.

At the time, they stated the next cars development budget depended on the Evora selling well, ie. the Evora had to sell/make money else nothing to pay for the new Esprit.

no way would they then make the Evora a demonstration/development car, that's just nonsensical.

Tuna said:

Scuffers said:

look at the way the press all fauned over it, told us it was so much better than the Cayman etc etc, however, do you see a single one of them actually ponying up the money to buy one?

Sales have been shocking, Lotus will have lost a medium sized fortune on it by now, how is that a good thing?

I would suggest that this as much as anything else have been responsible for Dannyboy getting his foot in the door.

'Dannyboy' is going to be a marmite figure, and may be held responsible if Lotus fail. However, I can't imagine for one moment that this single guy is dragging the company, it's parent company and a whole heap of well respected new hires around without them actually wanting to be in on the ride.

yes, he may well be a Marmite character, problem is where in his previous roles ever done this before?

Yes, he has brought in a load of people, some with good backgrounds, however, I am sure they are getting very well paid to come in.

Back to the subject, in 24 months time, do you think the Evora will have even come close to paying back it's own development costs? let alone make a profit?