The Official Arsenal Thread (Volume2)
Discussion
Cheib said:
bobo said:
you mistake the aims of running a (property) company with a significant cash surplus and running a football club.
to think wenger is irreplaceable for a football club is naive. to think wenger is irreplaceable for the 4th most valuable cvlub in the world is just plain stupidity ... but typical of the fearful hardcore 'in wenger we trust' brigade. what are you scared of? a manager that has the tactical acumen to deal with Norwich or Birmingham when it actually matters ...
a manager that knows you replace like for like when you sell players like cesc, nasri, rvp, th14, song especially when the club can afford to do it and doesnt just buy another french player this may come good in 3 seasons.
there is plenty of talent available at management level and there's plenty of money that our club can spend on both future transfers / wages.
the next guy has got it made.
the biggest challenge wont be winning, it will convincing the other clubs we arnt a feeder club anymore...
as for the board - wenger has had them in his pocket for longer than i can remember. its a great relationship, he gets them a dividend - they keep him in a job with no pressure to win. his influence over the board is 'unhealthy' at best. you cant blame one and not the other....
Firstly get your facts straight. There aren't any dividends paid.....to think wenger is irreplaceable for a football club is naive. to think wenger is irreplaceable for the 4th most valuable cvlub in the world is just plain stupidity ... but typical of the fearful hardcore 'in wenger we trust' brigade. what are you scared of? a manager that has the tactical acumen to deal with Norwich or Birmingham when it actually matters ...
a manager that knows you replace like for like when you sell players like cesc, nasri, rvp, th14, song especially when the club can afford to do it and doesnt just buy another french player this may come good in 3 seasons.
there is plenty of talent available at management level and there's plenty of money that our club can spend on both future transfers / wages.
the next guy has got it made.
the biggest challenge wont be winning, it will convincing the other clubs we arnt a feeder club anymore...
as for the board - wenger has had them in his pocket for longer than i can remember. its a great relationship, he gets them a dividend - they keep him in a job with no pressure to win. his influence over the board is 'unhealthy' at best. you cant blame one and not the other....
Cheib said:
If people want Wenger out I suggest they think of a manager that could keep us competitive given the same transfer spend. Now the baord on the other hand ? They are a disgrace. PHW would have been fired years ago if he was running a proper company.
Edited by bobo on Tuesday 23 October 12:14
What has happened is that the baord has sold it's shares at inflated prices as Kronke/Usmanov bought shares to try and gain control.
Secondly I'd have a proper look at the accounts. Arsenal are profitable because of player sales/trading...the property business has simply made up the shortfall in income because commercial revenues are below the competition and will be for another couple of years and beyond.
Being the "fourth most valuable club in the world" doesn't mean anything...it's about revenue. They're only the fourth most valuable because Wenger has kept them competitive whilst producing a net £50mil in player sales since they moved to The Emirates...and two billionaires have been fighting to buy up a tiny float of shares.
It's all here.....
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Ars...
Edited by Cheib on Wednesday 24th October 16:22
I think the danger is we get rid of someone who has kept us in a very profitable, healthy position, in a time where the club made massive strides forward as a business and replace him with a two season wonder. There has a lot of good work that has been carried out and I would like to see this continue. However, I do want the Board Of Directors issue sorted out.
i don't disagree with most of what you said although you discount the value of 'valuable'. the figures that comprise value go hand in hand with revenue. my point was .. which you have unwittingly reinforced ... the club is in no position to plead poverty which is what wenger has been doing for 5 seasons to the demise of the skill base of the team and reputation of the club. the sadness is, you can have this conversation with anyone else apart from a gooner.
the transfer value difference between rvp and giruod is minimal relative to their gulf in ability. looking at the 'figures' that you have indirectly put forward another 5 or 10m on top of the giroud fee would buy the finished article that can hit the ground running which wouldn't effect the 'bottom line'. i see our club is yet again suffering in two crucial departments (note - the yet again) defending and now finishing. simply put you reap what you sow. rvp lefty simply because his aspirations didnt match that of the club. we have heard that before. what precisely are the aspirations of the club?
no one has criticised wengers financial management of the club - yet you seem eager to defend it. the criticism has been the footballing performance of the club and how it has failed at simple hurdles time and time again.
perhaps you would like to discuss the actual points raised ?
the transfer value difference between rvp and giruod is minimal relative to their gulf in ability. looking at the 'figures' that you have indirectly put forward another 5 or 10m on top of the giroud fee would buy the finished article that can hit the ground running which wouldn't effect the 'bottom line'. i see our club is yet again suffering in two crucial departments (note - the yet again) defending and now finishing. simply put you reap what you sow. rvp lefty simply because his aspirations didnt match that of the club. we have heard that before. what precisely are the aspirations of the club?
no one has criticised wengers financial management of the club - yet you seem eager to defend it. the criticism has been the footballing performance of the club and how it has failed at simple hurdles time and time again.
perhaps you would like to discuss the actual points raised ?
Cheib said:
Firstly get your facts straight. There aren't any dividends paid.....
What has happened is that the baord has sold it's shares at inflated prices as Kronke/Usmanov bought shares to try and gain control.
Secondly I'd have a proper look at the accounts. Arsenal are profitable because of player sales/trading...the property business has simply made up the shortfall in income because commercial revenues are below the competition and will be for another couple of years and beyond.
Being the "fourth most valuable club in the world" doesn't mean anything...it's about revenue. They're only the fourth most valuable because Wenger has kept them competitive whilst producing a net £50mil in player sales since they moved to The Emirates...and two billionaires have been fighting to buy up a tiny float of shares.
It's all here.....
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Ars...
What has happened is that the baord has sold it's shares at inflated prices as Kronke/Usmanov bought shares to try and gain control.
Secondly I'd have a proper look at the accounts. Arsenal are profitable because of player sales/trading...the property business has simply made up the shortfall in income because commercial revenues are below the competition and will be for another couple of years and beyond.
Being the "fourth most valuable club in the world" doesn't mean anything...it's about revenue. They're only the fourth most valuable because Wenger has kept them competitive whilst producing a net £50mil in player sales since they moved to The Emirates...and two billionaires have been fighting to buy up a tiny float of shares.
It's all here.....
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Ars...
Edited by Cheib on Wednesday 24th October 16:22[/footnote]
[footnote]Edited by bobo on Wednesday 24th October 19:35bobo said:
i don't disagree with most of what you said although you discount the value of 'valuable'. the figures that comprise value go hand in hand with revenue. my point was .. which you have unwittingly reinforced ... the club is in no position to plead poverty which is what wenger has been doing for 5 seasons to the demise of the skill base of the team and reputation of the club. the sadness is, you can have this conversation with anyone else apart from a gooner.
the transfer value difference between rvp and giruod is minimal relative to their gulf in ability. looking at the 'figures' that you have indirectly put forward another 5 or 10m on top of the giroud fee would buy the finished article that can hit the ground running which wouldn't effect the 'bottom line'. i see our club is yet again suffering in two crucial departments (note - the yet again) defending and now finishing. simply put you reap what you sow. rvp lefty simply because his aspirations didnt match that of the club. we have heard that before. what precisely are the aspirations of the club?
no one has criticised wengers financial management of the club - yet you seem eager to defend it. the criticism has been the footballing performance of the club and how it has failed at simple hurdles time and time again.
perhaps you would like to discuss the actual points raised ?
I agree the club isn't in a position to plead poverty...the wage bill dwarfs anyone except the obvious three or four clubs in the PL. And that wage bill hasn't been used efficiently which is seemingly down to Wenger....they've paid far too many average players too much cash. Wenger liked a flat wage structure which meant there was a relatively small gap between the stars and the also ran's. the transfer value difference between rvp and giruod is minimal relative to their gulf in ability. looking at the 'figures' that you have indirectly put forward another 5 or 10m on top of the giroud fee would buy the finished article that can hit the ground running which wouldn't effect the 'bottom line'. i see our club is yet again suffering in two crucial departments (note - the yet again) defending and now finishing. simply put you reap what you sow. rvp lefty simply because his aspirations didnt match that of the club. we have heard that before. what precisely are the aspirations of the club?
no one has criticised wengers financial management of the club - yet you seem eager to defend it. the criticism has been the footballing performance of the club and how it has failed at simple hurdles time and time again.
perhaps you would like to discuss the actual points raised ?
Cheib said:
Firstly get your facts straight. There aren't any dividends paid.....
What has happened is that the baord has sold it's shares at inflated prices as Kronke/Usmanov bought shares to try and gain control.
Secondly I'd have a proper look at the accounts. Arsenal are profitable because of player sales/trading...the property business has simply made up the shortfall in income because commercial revenues are below the competition and will be for another couple of years and beyond.
Being the "fourth most valuable club in the world" doesn't mean anything...it's about revenue. They're only the fourth most valuable because Wenger has kept them competitive whilst producing a net £50mil in player sales since they moved to The Emirates...and two billionaires have been fighting to buy up a tiny float of shares.
It's all here.....
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Ars...
What has happened is that the baord has sold it's shares at inflated prices as Kronke/Usmanov bought shares to try and gain control.
Secondly I'd have a proper look at the accounts. Arsenal are profitable because of player sales/trading...the property business has simply made up the shortfall in income because commercial revenues are below the competition and will be for another couple of years and beyond.
Being the "fourth most valuable club in the world" doesn't mean anything...it's about revenue. They're only the fourth most valuable because Wenger has kept them competitive whilst producing a net £50mil in player sales since they moved to The Emirates...and two billionaires have been fighting to buy up a tiny float of shares.
It's all here.....
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Ars...
Edited by Cheib on Wednesday 24th October 16:22[/footnote]
[footnote]Edited by bobo on Wednesday 24th October 19:35You're right as well about the difference in up front transfer costs of RVP and Giroud though I think the fact is that RVP just wasn't going to stay come what may. Trouble is that £10mil difference doesn't tell the whole story....RVP is supposed to be on £200k a week....so over four years that's £40mil and then he will be worth say £5mil. So he'll have cost Man U £60mil .
Giroud on the other hand will hopefully still be worth what Arsenal paid for him and is probably on £60k a week.....so over four years his salary is £12mil and lets say he's worth £5mil less than Arsenal paid for him at the end of his contract...so a total of £17mil. So RVP is actually going to cost £43mil more on my back of a fag packet calc.
Arsenal definitely have a lot of cash BUT if they weren't to qualify for Champions League qualification that's £20 to £30mil a year......so it's a rainy day fund. Having said that legally a decent % of that cash has to be made available to Wenger...it's in the terms of the bonds that were used to finance the stadium.
The football performance has been sub par by Arsenal's standards over the previous ten years.....trouble is success is hugely linked to budget and Arsenal are a distant fourth. The reason for that is the board thought they could say competitive whilst building the stadium but they reckoned without Chelsea and Man City who just changed the face of football financially. Unfortunately the board sold their shareholding to Kronke who is clearly not interested in investing any money and because the board f
ked the sale so badly we have a hung shareholder structure with no outright owner and two billionaires who quite clearly don't get on. 
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