Why are England light years behind Spain, Germany etc?
Discussion
Two things....firstly the midfield players aren't good enough....Milner is a classic Premier League player....loads of energy....gets up and down the pitch but just hasn't got the technique or pace to worry players at the highest level and he can't hassle players like you do in the Premier League because you'll end up in the book. Secondly I think Hodgson picked a team to get to the QF's and didn't gamble once they were there....I think he thought he'd done his job by getting to the QF's...personally I think he should have picked Walcott against Italy....his technique isn't up to it but he's got pace to scare anyone which creates mroe space in midfield because the opposition can't press as much....yes he's not got much to offer tracking back but frankly if you're the coach of Italy Milner isn't going to get more than five minutes thought.
The player who can potentially transform England and is the best England midfield player of a generation is Wilshere. Yes I am an Arsenal fan but his ability to retain possesion and make those seemigly simple passes is something England haven't had for longer than I can remember.
Here's him last season playing against the best midfield in the world as an 18 yr old....and didn't look out of place at all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5NpD3bRZvs
The player who can potentially transform England and is the best England midfield player of a generation is Wilshere. Yes I am an Arsenal fan but his ability to retain possesion and make those seemigly simple passes is something England haven't had for longer than I can remember.
Here's him last season playing against the best midfield in the world as an 18 yr old....and didn't look out of place at all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5NpD3bRZvs
dickymint said:
croyde said:
dickymint said:
Simple solution. Set up a team in the Championship called England! Pay them the going rate, manage it financially like any other club. They play together as a team week in week out and win the next World Cup - sorted.
I like that 
glassspares said:
dickymint said:
croyde said:
dickymint said:
Simple solution. Set up a team in the Championship called England! Pay them the going rate, manage it financially like any other club. They play together as a team week in week out and win the next World Cup - sorted.
I like that dickymint said:
glassspares said:
dickymint said:
croyde said:
dickymint said:
Simple solution. Set up a team in the Championship called England! Pay them the going rate, manage it financially like any other club. They play together as a team week in week out and win the next World Cup - sorted.
I like that I also don't think the current (or last generation of) English players have enough basic intelligence. Plus, the England jersey seems to bring fear and inhibition to the wearer. And their s
tness seems to coincide with that frigging band coming on the scene.
I'm sure plenty will disagree but if Ireland (whose individual players are way less gifted then England's) were to play England next week, I don't think England would win. There is something distinctly lacking in their character - maybe the will/determination/fight/pride/bottle/joy?
tness seems to coincide with that frigging band coming on the scene. I'm sure plenty will disagree but if Ireland (whose individual players are way less gifted then England's) were to play England next week, I don't think England would win. There is something distinctly lacking in their character - maybe the will/determination/fight/pride/bottle/joy?
Daniel Taylor nailed it:-
"...The problem essentially, though, is an old one and it is that England do not have enough players who consider giving away the ball as a sin. Paul Scholes, the nearest England have to Pirlo, retired from international football eight years ago. Michael Carrick is probably second in line, albeit a fair way further back and he too jacked it in. Other nations would build their entire team around these players; England left them deciding they did not want anything more to do with it."
The media have far too much power when it comes to the England team and wouldnt allow a manager to clear out all the dross like Milner, Barry and the past it players like Gerrard and Terry and bring in a whole bunch of young players who play the game the right way, who would invariably lose a few games to start with but would eventually grow together.
Hart, Wilshere, Walker, Adam Johnson, Smalling, and Welbeck should be the initial basis for such a team, with the team built around playmakers in the middle like Wilshere. Let them go out and play football without the pressure of the media who half of them have no clue about football in the first place.
"...The problem essentially, though, is an old one and it is that England do not have enough players who consider giving away the ball as a sin. Paul Scholes, the nearest England have to Pirlo, retired from international football eight years ago. Michael Carrick is probably second in line, albeit a fair way further back and he too jacked it in. Other nations would build their entire team around these players; England left them deciding they did not want anything more to do with it."
The media have far too much power when it comes to the England team and wouldnt allow a manager to clear out all the dross like Milner, Barry and the past it players like Gerrard and Terry and bring in a whole bunch of young players who play the game the right way, who would invariably lose a few games to start with but would eventually grow together.
Hart, Wilshere, Walker, Adam Johnson, Smalling, and Welbeck should be the initial basis for such a team, with the team built around playmakers in the middle like Wilshere. Let them go out and play football without the pressure of the media who half of them have no clue about football in the first place.
Its amazing that so many people are putting this down to tactical training and the finer nuances of football isms.
Personally I think it is simply because our current crop of players are a big steaming pile of st.
Individually the worst team we have had in my lifetime.
ALmost none of our players are anything more than average in our domestic league and I think they did exceptionally well to reach the quarter finals with what we had available.
Personally I think it is simply because our current crop of players are a big steaming pile of s
t.Individually the worst team we have had in my lifetime.
ALmost none of our players are anything more than average in our domestic league and I think they did exceptionally well to reach the quarter finals with what we had available.
dickymint said:
Simple solution. Set up a team in the Championship called England! Pay them the going rate, manage it financially like any other club. They play together as a team week in week out and win the next World Cup - sorted.
Good idea.Where would they play their home games?
Wembley I suppose.
NormalWisdom said:
Because from the age of "very young" kids are actively encouraged to "participate" - "compete" is a dirty word. We live in a namby-pamby age run by clueless do-gooder wimps.
No. The problem is the opposite; at school age results rule, therefore it's all about big strong lads who can run and kick a long way as they play on full size pitches.The "technique" argument is a red herring. Look at the first 10 minutes against Italy... they CAN do it; they just choose not to. It's a matter of patience. It's as if they think if they don't score within 20 seconds of gaining possession they will be taken out by a sniper.
And England fans deserve it. How many times when playing at Wembley do England get whistled if they even so much as consider as passing the ball backwards?
Dan Taylor is spot on - any other nation would have built the team around Scholes; instead he was shunted around to fit Gerrard and Lampard - prime examples of the lack of patience that cripples the England team.
And also tactics. 95% of the nation can see that 4-4-2 doesn't work at international level. In fact I think the only three who think it can are Schteve, Sven and Roy.
And England fans deserve it. How many times when playing at Wembley do England get whistled if they even so much as consider as passing the ball backwards?
Dan Taylor is spot on - any other nation would have built the team around Scholes; instead he was shunted around to fit Gerrard and Lampard - prime examples of the lack of patience that cripples the England team.
And also tactics. 95% of the nation can see that 4-4-2 doesn't work at international level. In fact I think the only three who think it can are Schteve, Sven and Roy.
McClure said:
The "technique" argument is a red herring. Look at the first 10 minutes against Italy... they CAN do it; they just choose not to. It's a matter of patience. It's as if they think if they don't score within 20 seconds of gaining possession they will be taken out by a sniper.
And England fans deserve it. How many times when playing at Wembley do England get whistled if they even so much as consider as passing the ball backwards?
Dan Taylor is spot on - any other nation would have built the team around Scholes; instead he was shunted around to fit Gerrard and Lampard - prime examples of the lack of patience that cripples the England team.
And also tactics. 95% of the nation can see that 4-4-2 doesn't work at international level. In fact I think the only three who think it can are Schteve, Sven and Roy.
Or perhaps the players say they can't play any other way (wasn't it tried before and the players rebelled against 4-5-1?).And England fans deserve it. How many times when playing at Wembley do England get whistled if they even so much as consider as passing the ball backwards?
Dan Taylor is spot on - any other nation would have built the team around Scholes; instead he was shunted around to fit Gerrard and Lampard - prime examples of the lack of patience that cripples the England team.
And also tactics. 95% of the nation can see that 4-4-2 doesn't work at international level. In fact I think the only three who think it can are Schteve, Sven and Roy.
mike62 said:
McClure said:
The "technique" argument is a red herring. Look at the first 10 minutes against Italy... they CAN do it; they just choose not to. It's a matter of patience. It's as if they think if they don't score within 20 seconds of gaining possession they will be taken out by a sniper.
And England fans deserve it. How many times when playing at Wembley do England get whistled if they even so much as consider as passing the ball backwards?
Dan Taylor is spot on - any other nation would have built the team around Scholes; instead he was shunted around to fit Gerrard and Lampard - prime examples of the lack of patience that cripples the England team.
And also tactics. 95% of the nation can see that 4-4-2 doesn't work at international level. In fact I think the only three who think it can are Schteve, Sven and Roy.
Or perhaps the players say they can't play any other way (wasn't it tried before and the players rebelled against 4-5-1?).And England fans deserve it. How many times when playing at Wembley do England get whistled if they even so much as consider as passing the ball backwards?
Dan Taylor is spot on - any other nation would have built the team around Scholes; instead he was shunted around to fit Gerrard and Lampard - prime examples of the lack of patience that cripples the England team.
And also tactics. 95% of the nation can see that 4-4-2 doesn't work at international level. In fact I think the only three who think it can are Schteve, Sven and Roy.
I think it´s the mental side as well as the fitness which needs working on
The jiffle king said:
Our players might be able to hold the ball for 10 minutes, but they do not have the mental strength to do this for 90 minutes. They are not used to being pressured on the ball and giving short passes as they do not do this week in week out.
I think it´s the mental side as well as the fitness which needs working on
I think it´s the mental side as well as the fitness which needs working on
I know very little about football but England appear not to have the skill level of the likes of the Spanish.
The England game is very predictable keeper kicks the ball as far as he can usually to the other side followed by a long period of defending.
About ten years ago I was in Spain on the costa del sol, our apartment overlooked a training ground,
The skill level on display was amazing, the ball control from the kids aged from about seven to ten was impressive to watch,
at the same time in the UK we were putting people off playing ball games,my house fronts onto a small grass/tarmac area, one day there was a knock on the door and a guy introduced himself and asking if I would sign a petition to ban ball games on the area, I refused saying that the would have to play on the road or walk half a mile to a playing field, my children ar all grown up but still think it was a safe are for the kids to play, but nimbism won the day, the sign went up,the signs started to multiple, ever grass area appeared to have one, areas where in the past you would see kids having a kick around,not anymore, we have to ask how a country like Sweden with a small population can produce a good side and we fail with a lot more people.
While I agree that we are behind Spain and Germany in terms of technique, I personally don't think that our players are quite as bad as people are making out. Sure, Spain are exceptional at the moment and the Germans have some great players and play in a way that really suits them. But I don't really think the Italians are great at the moment.
The thing that really frustrates me, though, is that England so very, very rarely look like a TEAM. We've all seen teams that have no star players, just ones of average ability and these players, by working for each other and playing to the strengths that they do have, become a team that is greater than the sum of its parts.
Somehow, England (almost) always conspire to be the opposite - i.e. a group of disjointed individuals who, as a team represent much less than the sum of their parts could be.
I sort of agree with the point about Scholes, but being a Liverpool fan, I would have built the team around Gerrard and I feel his entire England career has been wasted by him being shuffled around to accommodate Scholes, Lampard and Beckham, but you're right - one of these guys should have been picked and had a team built around him, even if it meant leaving out one or more of the others.
I really think this is part of the problem - as a nation, we seem to have a need to have the best eleven players on the field, rather than the best team.
It seems to me that almost every England manager follows this trend and continues to pick players who don't combine well with each other. Here's hoping Roy grows a pair and can see past picking the best four midfielders we have and will pick the best combination - even if it means the future equivalent of picking Gareth Barry ahead of Lampard or Gerrard.
(Or (Sir) Geoff Hurst ahead of Jimmy Greaves
)
The thing that really frustrates me, though, is that England so very, very rarely look like a TEAM. We've all seen teams that have no star players, just ones of average ability and these players, by working for each other and playing to the strengths that they do have, become a team that is greater than the sum of its parts.
Somehow, England (almost) always conspire to be the opposite - i.e. a group of disjointed individuals who, as a team represent much less than the sum of their parts could be.
I sort of agree with the point about Scholes, but being a Liverpool fan, I would have built the team around Gerrard and I feel his entire England career has been wasted by him being shuffled around to accommodate Scholes, Lampard and Beckham, but you're right - one of these guys should have been picked and had a team built around him, even if it meant leaving out one or more of the others.
I really think this is part of the problem - as a nation, we seem to have a need to have the best eleven players on the field, rather than the best team.
It seems to me that almost every England manager follows this trend and continues to pick players who don't combine well with each other. Here's hoping Roy grows a pair and can see past picking the best four midfielders we have and will pick the best combination - even if it means the future equivalent of picking Gareth Barry ahead of Lampard or Gerrard.
(Or (Sir) Geoff Hurst ahead of Jimmy Greaves
)Too many foreign players in the Premier League, too much money going out in salaries meaning no money for the youth teams....
Where are the Gascoignes, Linekers, Shearers, Charltons, Hursts, Greaves etc? They don't get a chance due to the influx of players from abroad.
How many teams these days have youth policies? Not that many I would have thought. Until we get back to nurturing talent from the grass roots we will always lag way behind the rest of the world.
Which is a shame & which should be rectified before English football as we know it dies an unpleasant death.
Where are the Gascoignes, Linekers, Shearers, Charltons, Hursts, Greaves etc? They don't get a chance due to the influx of players from abroad.
How many teams these days have youth policies? Not that many I would have thought. Until we get back to nurturing talent from the grass roots we will always lag way behind the rest of the world.
Which is a shame & which should be rectified before English football as we know it dies an unpleasant death.
croyde said:
Probably mentioned before but many of the top English teams are mainly populated with foreigners which is why England did so well against Germany a few weeks back, sorry I mean Chelsea against Bayern.
The german team has almost as many nationalities in it as the England cricket team. Spain are a different matter though. I remember the perenially under-achieving team of the 90's, and even early 2000's they were still nowhere near the team they are now. It wasnt until the 2008 Euro when they finally clicked and started playing like they do now. Added to the change of play, the emergence of some bloody fantastic players out of the youth teams of Barca, Real and a few others it all clicked in for them.
I think it will need a big change from the FA and English clubs before we can match them again.
England will never win a major trophy unless they are lucky or grow some balls and actually PLAY to win.dickymint said:
Let's get something straight here. England have won fk all since 1966 and were lucky to win then!!
No they weren't. I've watched the whole 90 minutes of that match on various occassions when they've re-run the colour version of it on the TV and apart from the last 5 minutes when Germany HAD to attack at 2-1 down England were the superior team for the remaining 85 minutes.k all since 1966 and were lucky to win then!!Yes, the goal was controversial but even if it had not stood England were in the supremacy.
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