So... Black players union?
Discussion
essexplumber said:
RedTrident said:
Well being someone who has been referred to as both choc ice and coconut by other black people I considered it to be an insult questioning my authenticity as a black person.
As to it being racist, yes I agree but it sure isn't an anti white term as suggested. I've always considered to be comparable to being called a 'sell out'
But by being a "choc-ice" is the slur not hinting at you being too white? As if it were a bad thing to be white.As to it being racist, yes I agree but it sure isn't an anti white term as suggested. I've always considered to be comparable to being called a 'sell out'
That is racist, full stop. If I call a white person a "wigger" or "jafakan" for acting black am I not saying that being black is a bad thing?
The slur isn't that someone is too white, rather that they are forgetting their blackness. Yes its subtle but the emphasis is on the later and I've never witnessed it as a racist insult towards white people.
RedTrident said:
I'm not disputing its not racist. But at best its a stretch if you think that a black man being called a choc ice is racist towards a white person.
The slur isn't that someone is too white, rather that they are forgetting their blackness. Yes its subtle but the emphasis is on the later and I've never witnessed it as a racist insult towards white people.
Are you white? Please don't answer that if you'd rather not but I do find it offensive (as a white man) and I do honestly belive that "choc-ice" is equaly offensive to a white person as a black person. The slur isn't that someone is too white, rather that they are forgetting their blackness. Yes its subtle but the emphasis is on the later and I've never witnessed it as a racist insult towards white people.
After all is said and done race related insults don't have to just offend the person they're aimed at but I also belive that between freinds some racially active banter can be taken light heartedly (sp). If a black mate said something along the lines of "you effing white boys are all the same....." I wouldn't take that as an insult, if a black man said that to me and I didn't know hime well enough I would be offended.
What I am trying to say is that I am sure neither JT or RF or Suarez etc are real racists, I don't really think anyone with reasonable intelligence levels are reall, genuinely racist. But as JT's remarks were taken so seriously I can't see how RF's remarks were not. It smacks of double standards, just as a black players union would fly in the face of genuine attempts to eradicate racist elements in football and society in general. You cannot fight discrimination with tools that discriminate.
essexplumber said:
What I am trying to say is that I am sure neither JT or RF or Suarez etc are real racists, I don't really think anyone with reasonable intelligence levels are really, genuinely racist.
I'm not sure your comment about reasonable intelligence gets Terry off the hook. I think he's a very good footballer, but he wouldn't be my "phone a friend" on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire.I doubt Terry is a racist. He's played with too many black players who surely would have noticed and outed him if he were. In fact there is no law against being a racist. We don't have thought crime in this country. So long as you stay within the law, don't racially abuse people or incite racial hatred, you can believe in whatever vile nonsense you choose.
Wenger's made some good comments on this.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11670/8194...
Jobs should be given on merit. Why should someone be considered for a job if they are not in the top 3 applicants, but are a certain ethnicity so included anyway.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11670/8194...
Jobs should be given on merit. Why should someone be considered for a job if they are not in the top 3 applicants, but are a certain ethnicity so included anyway.
TheHeretic said:
It's racism in a different way, pro-black people for no other reason than that they're black. You shouldn't have to meet a quota.Race shouldn't matter, Paul Ince was sacked from Blackburn because he did a s
te job, in the same season, several white managers were sacked for the same reason. As AW says, jobs should be given on merit.
ArtVandelay said:
As AW says, jobs should be given on merit.
I agree entirely. Odd then how with such a high number of black players in the Prem & below, I can think of Chris Hughton & poor Terry Connor managing in the top echelon in the last year. For some reason, they're not coming through post retirement in anything like the numbers you would expect given the representation at playing level. Question is, what is the reason?Justin Cyder said:
I agree entirely. Odd then how with such a high number of black players in the Prem & below, I can think of Chris Hughton & poor Terry Connor managing in the top echelon in the last year. For some reason, they're not coming through post retirement in anything like the numbers you would expect given the representation at playing level. Question is, what is the reason?
Does it have to involve their colour?TheHeretic said:
Justin Cyder said:
I agree entirely. Odd then how with such a high number of black players in the Prem & below, I can think of Chris Hughton & poor Terry Connor managing in the top echelon in the last year. For some reason, they're not coming through post retirement in anything like the numbers you would expect given the representation at playing level. Question is, what is the reason?
Does it have to involve their colour?Positive discrimination they call it.
When you've had years of discrimiation in a certain profession, positive discrimination is a tool for trying to even things up in a hurry and convince those who were previously barred that the door is now open to them.
Hence women only shortlists for MP positions and other such examples.
In many cases, it can be a good thing. Only by positive discrimination can you encourage black people in any numbers to join the police.
Unfortunately, as a white heterosexual male, it can only work against me.
When you've had years of discrimiation in a certain profession, positive discrimination is a tool for trying to even things up in a hurry and convince those who were previously barred that the door is now open to them.
Hence women only shortlists for MP positions and other such examples.
In many cases, it can be a good thing. Only by positive discrimination can you encourage black people in any numbers to join the police.
Unfortunately, as a white heterosexual male, it can only work against me.
TheHeretic said:
Does it have to involve their colour?
No and I've said already I agree with the merit argument, but if you said black players represent 40 - 50% of players in the prem & black managers represent this season anyway, 5% I.e Chris Hughton, then it would be reasonable to suggest those black players are being discounted in some way at management level. Either that or it's a big old coincidence.
Justin Cyder said:
No and I've said already I agree with the merit argument, but if you said black players represent 40 - 50% of players in the prem & black managers represent this season anyway, 5% I.e Chris Hughton, then it would be reasonable to suggest those black players are being discounted in some way at management level.
Either that or it's a big old coincidence.
Players playing now don't matter. Playing when they would be at retirement age would count, surely, as the other poster said? Either that or it's a big old coincidence.
Maybe. It's possibly convoluted to try & work out the trajectory of black players over the past twenty years, but I don't recall many all white teams since I've been following the game from the late seventies.
I'm not looking for monsters in the shadows, just throwing out the notion that ex players have articulated publicly over the years that there can be more to racial discrimination in football than a fknut making like a monkey at Stamford Bridge.
I'm not looking for monsters in the shadows, just throwing out the notion that ex players have articulated publicly over the years that there can be more to racial discrimination in football than a f
knut making like a monkey at Stamford Bridge.Justin Cyder said:
TheHeretic said:
Does it have to involve their colour?
No and I've said already I agree with the merit argument, but if you said black players represent 40 - 50% of players in the prem & black managers represent this season anyway, 5% I.e Chris Hughton, then it would be reasonable to suggest those black players are being discounted in some way at management level. Either that or it's a big old coincidence.
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