The Official England Thread-The Team We All Support [Vol 2]

[ribiero]

Challo said:

56 eligible players? That cant be right. If it is just shows players do not really want to play for their country.

It's all here, Pearce goes on quite the rant.

http://talksport.com/football/kick-england-special...

[Brave Fart]

aeropilot said:

Except by all accounts he was only the FA's 2nd choice, after Wenger turned down the offer......

Um, Wenger isn't English..........Sam remains the best English candidate, in my view. Some critics on here will say "best of a poor bunch", yes perhaps. I just want us to perform reasonably well in tournaments, and think Sam Allardyce can achieve that modest ambition. We'll see.

[FN2TypeR]

Why would Wenger want to fail with England when he can stay at Arsenal and fail there instead?

[smn159]

ribiero said:

It falls apart at the same points :

Premier league's conflict of interest
Players afraid to perform in tournament football.
The best youth talent not turning out for their age groups. (Stuart Pearce/Calvin Harris have an excellent podcast on tw*tsport about this, 56 eligable players turned down U21's for a game once, madness)

Agreed, plus I'd add that English prem player have an expectation that they will be spoon fed / cosseted wherever they go - see countless examples of remote fortress tournament training camps / no contact with the locals. No experience of life outside of the football bubble and few leadership skills when things get tough.

The ambition of a typical England player I suspect is to come out a tournament without having been blamed for anything, rather than to actually win.

[uk66fastback]

smn159 said:

The ambition of a typical England player I suspect is to come out a tournament without having been blamed for anything, rather than to actually win.

Half of them really would rather be somewhere else than away, playing for their country. At least that is the impression they give off. Let players who want to be there, go and then the results are the results.

It ain't 'fashionable' to like Big Sam, but every other overpaid manager before him (both English - Hodgson and McClaren and foreign - Capello and Sven) have 'failed' in the last 20 years or so - so why not give him a chance?

I hope he finishes a few England careers (Joe Hart for one).

[aeropilot]

Brave Fart said:

aeropilot said:

Except by all accounts he was only the FA's 2nd choice, after Wenger turned down the offer......

Um, Wenger isn't English..........

Exactly

You said its the best appointment they could have made given the FA prefer an English manager.......and I was merely pointing out that they obviously don't 'prefer' an English manager, as their first choice was in fact Wenger.....

[bad company]

amare32 said:

I don't support England but this is disgraceful appointment. Some numpty with no big club experience gets the biggest football management job in the country.

Let's hope they'll lose EVERY match that this idiot is in charge. Farce.

I'm not a huge fan of SA but he has been successful at the clubs he managed. Why does he need to have managed what you regard as a 'big club'. Would you regard Leicester as a big enough club? They were fairly successful last season.

[Thankyou4calling]

Will we get a formal announcement today?

[Challo]

ribiero said:

Challo said:

56 eligible players? That cant be right. If it is just shows players do not really want to play for their country.

It's all here, Pearce goes on quite the rant.

http://talksport.com/football/kick-england-special...

Wow....just listened to that. What an eyeopener.

[Speed 3]

Challo said:

ribiero said:

Challo said:

56 eligible players? That cant be right. If it is just shows players do not really want to play for their country.

It's all here, Pearce goes on quite the rant.

http://talksport.com/football/kick-england-special...

Wow....just listened to that. What an eyeopener.

A lot of good observations. Pearce was always a bit limited as a manager but without doubt cares as passionately about England now as he did as a player. It must be quite surreal for him, working his way up from being a sparky & semi-pro to managing kids who have earned more at 19 than he did in a career. The point about the £320 boots / parental avarice is well made. It does make we wonder if we should just take the top slice of "perpetual golden generation" off, ignore them (unless they've served their time in U-18, U-20 and U-21) and just play with the likes of Drinkwater, Albrighton, Surman, Noble etc.

[anonymous-user]

Speed 3 said:

Challo said:

ribiero said:

Challo said:

56 eligible players? That cant be right. If it is just shows players do not really want to play for their country.

It's all here, Pearce goes on quite the rant.

http://talksport.com/football/kick-england-special...

Wow....just listened to that. What an eyeopener.

A lot of good observations. Pearce was always a bit limited as a manager but without doubt cares as passionately about England now as he did as a player. It must be quite surreal for him, working his way up from being a sparky & semi-pro to managing kids who have earned more at 19 than he did in a career. The point about the £320 boots / parental avarice is well made. It does make we wonder if we should just take the top slice of "perpetual golden generation" off, ignore them (unless they've served their time in U-18, U-20 and U-21) and just play with the likes of Drinkwater, Albrighton, Surman, Noble etc.

An eye opener indeed and some good points made above. There is no doubt that some major changes have to be made if we're ever to have a team led and filled with passion.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Speed 3 said:

It must be quite surreal for him, working his way up from being a sparky & semi-pro to managing kids who have earned more at 19 than he did in a career.

When he signed his first pro contract at Coventry, part of the deal allowed him to advertise as an electrician in the matchday programme at a reduced rate. He continued to work as a sparks for about 2 yrs whilst playing top flight football.

[The Hypno-Toad]

So England get the Big Fat Sam and Sunderland are trying get Peligrini? How in the wide, wide World Of Sports does that work?? And someone in the FA has apparently said its a good plan because they consulted Sir Alex? Of course he thinks it's a good plan, he's a jock!! And he's a jock who did his level best to make it as difficult as possible for his English players to play for England when he managed United!!

The appointment of the BFS is going to be an utter disaster. Pundits on Talkvandriver last night were saying that the players will respect him. No they won't!!! A lot of them have Premiership medals, FA Cup medals and Champions Leagues medals. It will be exactly the same as The Wally With The Brolly, they will look at him and think "What have you ever won?"

The Geordies hate him, the Hammers hate him and now all of England will hate him. The lack of ambition shown by the FA is just astounding because we will win jack st with him in charge. My best guess for this ridiculous decision is that he's just keeping the seat warm for Wenger, which would only just be a better decision. Pathetic

[castex]

It just might work.

[Challo]

The Hypno-Toad said:

So England get the Big Fat Sam and Sunderland are trying get Peligrini? How in the wide, wide World Of Sports does that work?? And someone in the FA has apparently said its a good plan because they consulted Sir Alex? Of course he thinks it's a good plan, he's a jock!! And he's a jock who did his level best to make it as difficult as possible for his English players to play for England when he managed United!!

The appointment of the BFS is going to be an utter disaster. Pundits on Talkvandriver last night were saying that the players will respect him. No they won't!!! A lot of them have Premiership medals, FA Cup medals and Champions Leagues medals. It will be exactly the same as The Wally With The Brolly, they will look at him and think "What have you ever won?"

The Geordies hate him, the Hammers hate him and now all of England will hate him. The lack of ambition shown by the FA is just astounding because we will win jack st with him in charge. My best guess for this ridiculous decision is that he's just keeping the seat warm for Wenger, which would only just be a better decision. Pathetic

If not BFS who would you appoint that is available or the FA could get?

[Speed 3]

The Hypno-Toad said:

The appointment of the BFS is going to be an utter disaster. Pundits on Talkvandriver last night were saying that the players will respect him. No they won't!!! A lot of them have Premiership medals, FA Cup medals and Champions Leagues medals. It will be exactly the same as The Wally With The Brolly, they will look at him and think "What have you ever won?"

....and that is exactly the point. If those players only have respect for shiny trinkets or willy waving then they're just magpies (no pun intended), not England players. He'll soon weedle them out. BTW you're wrong with "a lot", from the Euro2016 squad, only Hart, Cahill, Rooney, Smalling and Vardy fall into the PL winning category and only Rooney has a CL medal and he'll be retired soon.

The Hypno-Toad said:

The Geordies hate him, the Hammers hate him and now all of England will hate him.

Not so sure, Geordies are deluded (he was the best thing for them at the time), Hammers fans mostly appreciate what he did, just reverted to type and got lucky with Bilic for one season (see what happens next season). All of England don't currently hate him if you actually read this thread and think on balance its a decent appointment.

We got bored with him at Bolton about the same time as he got bored with us and started threatening the Board if we didn't go st or Bust for the Champions League (irony now is we ended up with the latter despite realistically not seeking the former).

I've met him a few times and don't like his public bluster or ego but I cannot deny he knows how to turn around an underperforming team at any level (International yet to be proven). If we were running a book on this I'd say he's more likely to have tournament success than most of his predecessors than be an "utter disaster".

Edited by Speed 3 on Thursday 21st July 21:04

[castex]

Speed 3 said:

Geordies are deluded (he was the best thing for them at the time)

Geordies are and were not deluded. Kthx.

[Speed 3]

castex said:

Speed 3 said:

Geordies are deluded (he was the best thing for them at the time)

Geordies are and were not deluded. Kthx.

Nothing personal

[audi321]

I think he's the right person for the job.

Trouble is, the players at his clubs listen to his aggression as he's literally their boss - he pays their wages (in effect). At international level they are less likely to put up with aggression as they will just walk away and back to their millionaire lifestyles, funded by their clubs. An aggressive stance won't work in this instance

[Murph7355]

audi321 said:

I think he's the right person for the job.

Trouble is, the players at his clubs listen to his aggression as he's literally their boss - he pays their wages (in effect). At international level they are less likely to put up with aggression as they will just walk away and back to their millionaire lifestyles, funded by their clubs. An aggressive stance won't work in this instance

I think people respond to firm direction (versus outright "aggression") and I suspect Allardyce is way more savvy than you infer.

But push comes to shove, one reason why I think Allardyce is a good shout is if some prima-donna doesn't toe the line or work hard, they'll be dropped sharpish. To many believed they were untouchable IMO (Hart, Rooney...and through the last tournament Sterling, Alli and Kane to name three more).