The Official England Thread-The Team We All Support [Vol 2]
Discussion
Mikeyjae said:
The Pundits said it right, apart from Germany in a Friendly when we played pretty good its all been very poor.
I get the whole its difficult to break teams down who put 11 behind the ball but this has just been bloody awful and it has been since the start of this qualification campaign. Gareth is not the man to take England forward he has had a poor group and barely ground out results, England should be winning these games comfortably with the exception of the Slovakia and Scotland games.
There was only 1 man who should have got the England job and that was Roberto Martinez as that man does not know how to defend or be cautious in his style of play no matter what team he was managing. Only then would we see how good England are going forward. Atleast we couldn't moan about being cautious or boring.
Oh wait, he is destroying teams with Belgium.
Martinez with Belgium: P13 W9 D3 L1I get the whole its difficult to break teams down who put 11 behind the ball but this has just been bloody awful and it has been since the start of this qualification campaign. Gareth is not the man to take England forward he has had a poor group and barely ground out results, England should be winning these games comfortably with the exception of the Slovakia and Scotland games.
There was only 1 man who should have got the England job and that was Roberto Martinez as that man does not know how to defend or be cautious in his style of play no matter what team he was managing. Only then would we see how good England are going forward. Atleast we couldn't moan about being cautious or boring.
Oh wait, he is destroying teams with Belgium.
Southgate with England: P12 W7 D3 L2
Ascayman said:
Ali scored over twenty goals last season from midfield at 20 years of age. To suggest he's overated is ridiculous.
This is part of the problem, we build players up to knock them down.
He is a good player, but he's not done enough to get the credit some people give to him.This is part of the problem, we build players up to knock them down.
Everyone is too desperate for the next superstar. A good spell means there is huge pressure put on younger players. It's not that people are desperate to knock them down, too many don't progress to a higher level like expected.
Nobody seems to give a toss anymore.
At least players like Terry, Ferdinand, Beckham, Gerrard & Rooney actually looked like they cared, even if nothing ultimately was won.
The current bunch of also-rans seem at best ambivalent about playing for country, most of them give the impression it's a chore.
At least players like Terry, Ferdinand, Beckham, Gerrard & Rooney actually looked like they cared, even if nothing ultimately was won.
The current bunch of also-rans seem at best ambivalent about playing for country, most of them give the impression it's a chore.
zygalski said:
The current bunch of also-rans seem at best ambivalent about playing for country, most of them give the impression it's a chore.
Well if the attitude of England fans in general reflects the attitude in here then I don't blame them. As Southgate himself put it - the current crop of players are burdened with the failures of previous England teams through no fault of their own. It's almost like they go out on to the pitch so scared of failing that they don't play to their full potential. Last night is a case in point. The youngest England squad ever assembled, 7 changes from the team that won on Thursday, 2 players getting their debut, experimenting with a new formation, they win 1-0 away from home but with quite a few mistakes and learnings to take away, and they get hammered on here and elsewhere for not playing like Brazil and scoring a bazillion goals. There's never been so much cause for optimism around the national team - almost all of the old guard is gone, we have a fresh crop of telented young players to start bedding in, the youth side coming through behind them has just won the world cup, there is a lot of potential to realise, and we could build a seriously formidable England side over the next decade. But fans and the media need to realise these sorts of projects take time, planning and stability of management structure. Changing the manager every five minutes and heaping expectation on kids that they must win 4-0 every time they pull on an England shirt is just setting them up to fail.
ORD said:
Not me. I think international football should be put out of its misery.
No more friendlies. No more qualifiers. Just have the Word Cup and (maybe) the Euros. We all know which teams will qualify, so let's not waste everyone's time.
Teams like Argentina, Holland and Portugal you mean?No more friendlies. No more qualifiers. Just have the Word Cup and (maybe) the Euros. We all know which teams will qualify, so let's not waste everyone's time.
48k said:
Well if the attitude of England fans in general reflects the attitude in here then I don't blame them. As Southgate himself put it - the current crop of players are burdened with the failures of previous England teams through no fault of their own. It's almost like they go out on to the pitch so scared of failing that they don't play to their full potential. Last night is a case in point. The youngest England squad ever assembled, 7 changes from the team that won on Thursday, 2 players getting their debut, experimenting with a new formation, they win 1-0 away from home but with quite a few mistakes and learnings to take away, and they get hammered on here and elsewhere for not playing like Brazil and scoring a bazillion goals.
There's never been so much cause for optimism around the national team - almost all of the old guard is gone, we have a fresh crop of telented young players to start bedding in, the youth side coming through behind them has just won the world cup, there is a lot of potential to realise, and we could build a seriously formidable England side over the next decade. But fans and the media need to realise these sorts of projects take time, planning and stability of management structure. Changing the manager every five minutes and heaping expectation on kids that they must win 4-0 every time they pull on an England shirt is just setting them up to fail.
Football is a product, it has to deliver entertainment and excitement, just like any other optional activity, watching England isn't cheap and supporters are not being given a product they can believe in. There's never been so much cause for optimism around the national team - almost all of the old guard is gone, we have a fresh crop of telented young players to start bedding in, the youth side coming through behind them has just won the world cup, there is a lot of potential to realise, and we could build a seriously formidable England side over the next decade. But fans and the media need to realise these sorts of projects take time, planning and stability of management structure. Changing the manager every five minutes and heaping expectation on kids that they must win 4-0 every time they pull on an England shirt is just setting them up to fail.
Yes we want a superstar, someone who can do things no other player can do, or a team that play "the English way" with some pace, attacking verve and energy. What we have now is a limp version of ball retention and knocking it around. It is dull to watch.
And yes a country with three full divisions of professional players and the money in the game, we should indeed be knocking over Lithuania 4 or 5 nil. That we had so many forced changes/ debutants and a change of system completely shows that we aren't playing near our potential.
I like Barry, he at least is honest about where we are, but I don't think he is carrying the players on the same Journey... When I look at English Rugby and compared to English Football, there is not the same unified purpose, pride or dedeication coming across. Though I recognise that is to do with how players are released by clubs to play at the highest level.
Football has not prioritised Internationals as the highest level of the sport. So it looks anachronistic.
Ascayman said:
ORD said:
Not me. I think international football should be put out of its misery.
No more friendlies. No more qualifiers. Just have the Word Cup and (maybe) the Euros. We all know which teams will qualify, so let's not waste everyone's time.
Teams like Argentina, Holland and Portugal you mean?No more friendlies. No more qualifiers. Just have the Word Cup and (maybe) the Euros. We all know which teams will qualify, so let's not waste everyone's time.
Ascayman said:
ORD said:
Not me. I think international football should be put out of its misery.
No more friendlies. No more qualifiers. Just have the Word Cup and (maybe) the Euros. We all know which teams will qualify, so let's not waste everyone's time.
Teams like Argentina, Holland and Portugal you mean?No more friendlies. No more qualifiers. Just have the Word Cup and (maybe) the Euros. We all know which teams will qualify, so let's not waste everyone's time.
Maybe have a smaller teams WC, too - the winner and runner of that then qualify for the proper WC and the two worst teams in the proper WC go into the smaller teams WC.
Anything but the current and utterly stupid system!
48k said:
Well if the attitude of England fans in general reflects the attitude in here then I don't blame them. As Southgate himself put it - the current crop of players are burdened with the failures of previous England teams through no fault of their own. It's almost like they go out on to the pitch so scared of failing that they don't play to their full potential...
Sad thing is, I think the current squad is just about playing to their potential, not that I can stomach watching more than the odd 5 minutes here & there & then find out we won 1-0 in qualifying against Moldovania.TEKNOPUG said:
England will always qualify going forwards. Because they always get seeded. Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions. And because they qualified they always get seeded.Which means they get given piss-poor teams in their group. Which means they qualify. Which means UEFA/FIFA can sell the TV rights to the UK for millions.....
So basically - we're Arsenal ?juice said:
So basically - we're Arsenal ?
Yes.The problem is as far as UEFA/FIFA are concerned, ALL the money is at the tournaments. So they want to ensure that all the rich countries and all big-draw teams qualify, so as to maximise their revenue through TV/Sponsorhip. They don't give a stuff about the qualifiers.
Imagine the CL if they got rid of the pre-qualifying tournaments and you had groups of 6 rather than 4. How much interest (viewing figure/attendances/sponsorship) would there be if Chelsea had to play 10 games against teams from Scotland, Slovenia, Slovakia, Malta & Lithuania? Or if Bayern Munich had to play 10 matches against clubs from Northern Ireland, Norway, Czech Republic, Azerbaijan and San Marino? Even allowing for multiple teams from the top countries, it would still be the top 2 qualifying. People wouldn't watch. CL recognised this and have pre-qualifying and groups of 4. FIFA don't appear to give a stuff, presumably because they aren't get much of a cut from the qualifying TV deals?
So fans don't have an interest as qualifying is a foregone conclusion against poor teams and quality of football drops as the games aren't competitive; players don't need to put in any effort, apply themselves or raise their game. The best thing that could happen to England is for them not to be seeded and put in a group with 2 proper teams. But then they may not qualify....and think of all the money UEFA/FIFA would lose....
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