The Official England Thread-The Team We All Support [Vol 2]

[Black can man]

bad company said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

No they weren't. We were 2-0 up and cruising. Would have been 3-0 up but Mullery didn't tap it over the line as he didn't want to take the goal off Astle. Then it bobbled at the last second and went wide!

Then Ramsey took off Charlton to save him for the semi we would never reach. Pure arrogance, due to our history.

That match was painful and it’s been painful ever since.

Most of us will have to ask our parents about this one.

[Black can man]

smn159 said:

GloverMart said:

This is doing the rounds on Twitter tonight, getting people in the mood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLcJ057il1c

Excellent

[Durzel]

Adam B said:

our history of being utter st seems to weigh heavily on the 11 standing on the pitch, such that history continues to repeat itself.

I can't remember a Euros or WC where the expectation is less mind you.

You make a good point. There has been very little fanfare about the WC this time around (this is a good thing). No kissing Beckham's foot or any other crap like that, or even much negativity. It's just sortof crept up on everyone.

That said - the only people who think that England are intimidating based on the fact that we won once back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth is setting themselves up for disappointment.

England's standing in football is not worth much consideration. Better that the players simply do their best and wherever we get to is celebrated.

[ORD]

I really don’t understand the suggestion that it would be a success for England to reach the QF. That would mean winning one potentially difficult game. One game. That’s still dreadful.

I’ll congratulate the lads if they get to the SF, but anything less than that is just slightly less embarrassing failure than usual.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

bad company said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

No they weren't. We were 2-0 up and cruising. Would have been 3-0 up but Mullery didn't tap it over the line as he didn't want to take the goal off Astle. Then it bobbled at the last second and went wide!

Then Ramsey took off Charlton to save him for the semi we would never reach. Pure arrogance, due to our history.

That match was painful and it’s been painful ever since.

Yes, I was getting annoyed writing about it. We would have beaten Italy easily in the semi. We'd lost 1-0 to Brazil in the group stages but it was a really close game. The final would have been another tight match, that could have gone either way. Us and Brazil were easily the two best teams in the world, and that should have been the final. Would have been the final if Ramsay hadn't been so arrogant.

[Zoon]

[redacted]

[Durzel]

ORD said:

I really don’t understand the suggestion that it would be a success for England to reach the QF. That would mean winning one potentially difficult game. One game. That’s still dreadful.

I’ll congratulate the lads if they get to the SF, but anything less than that is just slightly less embarrassing failure than usual.

That point of view assumes we're worthy of reaching the SFs though. There's loads of teams, a lot of partisan fans will be thinking the same thing. They can't all make the SFs, obviously.

England hasn't been a credible or consistent threat on the world stage for many, many years despite delusions of grandeur and "80 years of hurt".

[aeropilot]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

bad company said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

No they weren't. We were 2-0 up and cruising. Would have been 3-0 up but Mullery didn't tap it over the line as he didn't want to take the goal off Astle. Then it bobbled at the last second and went wide!

Then Ramsey took off Charlton to save him for the semi we would never reach. Pure arrogance, due to our history.

That match was painful and it’s been painful ever since.

Yes, I was getting annoyed writing about it. We would have beaten Italy easily in the semi. We'd lost 1-0 to Brazil in the group stages but it was a really close game. The final would have been another tight match, that could have gone either way. Us and Brazil were easily the two best teams in the world, and that should have been the final. Would have been the final if Ramsay hadn't been so arrogant.

And then of course, made even more painful having to wait another 12 years before reaching another WC
By then I'd never really recovered the same amount of enthusiasm for England Internationals and having developed interests in other sports.
Still have my 1970 World Cup squad album in my old LP box.........

[TwigtheWonderkid]

aeropilot said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

bad company said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

No they weren't. We were 2-0 up and cruising. Would have been 3-0 up but Mullery didn't tap it over the line as he didn't want to take the goal off Astle. Then it bobbled at the last second and went wide!

Then Ramsey took off Charlton to save him for the semi we would never reach. Pure arrogance, due to our history.

That match was painful and it’s been painful ever since.

Yes, I was getting annoyed writing about it. We would have beaten Italy easily in the semi. We'd lost 1-0 to Brazil in the group stages but it was a really close game. The final would have been another tight match, that could have gone either way. Us and Brazil were easily the two best teams in the world, and that should have been the final. Would have been the final if Ramsay hadn't been so arrogant.

And then of course, made even more painful having to wait another 12 years before reaching another WC
By then I'd never really recovered the same amount of enthusiasm for England Internationals and having developed interests in other sports.
Still have my 1970 World Cup squad album in my old LP box.........

Just occurred to me, as the 70 QF is seared into my brain forever, that it was 48 years ago today. Christ, I feel old. I was 7, and I remember it like it was yesterday. Except I can't actually remember what I did yesterday!!!

[ORD]

[redacted]

[ORD]

Italy and Holland are irrelevant - they aren't there.

Of the sides that are there, only 4 are considerably better than England - Germany, Brazil, Spain and France. Then you have sides like Belgium, Portugal and Argentina, that are no better than England or at least not much better.

In that light, just winning one knockout match is failure. Just less stinking than usual.

I take your point, though, that going out to the winner is not a real failure. It's damn unlucky to go out to them at an early stage.

[TEKNOPUG]

[redacted]

[aeropilot]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Just occurred to me, as the 70 QF is seared into my brain forever, that it was 48 years ago today. Christ, I feel old. I was 7, and I remember it like it was yesterday. Except I can't actually remember what I did yesterday!!!

Snap ...... to all points of that post

[RemyMartin81D]

This is the first world cup in my entire life where I'll be watching England hoping every game they lose at a minimum and at best get tonked.

Very odd and a feeling I genuinely don't like. Ideally I shouldn't watch and just read the results in passing but rather darkly I want to see them unceremoniously dumped out the tournament à la Brazil 2014

[ORD]

[redacted]

[so called]

aeropilot said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Just occurred to me, as the 70 QF is seared into my brain forever, that it was 48 years ago today. Christ, I feel old. I was 7, and I remember it like it was yesterday. Except I can't actually remember what I did yesterday!!!

Snap ...... to all points of that post

Plus 5 more years for me.

[LoonyTunes]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

No they weren't. We were 2-0 up and cruising. Would have been 3-0 up but Mullery didn't tap it over the line as he didn't want to take the goal off Astle. Then it bobbled at the last second and went wide!

Then Ramsey took off Charlton to save him for the semi we would never reach. Pure arrogance, due to our history.

I was 12 at the time and remember it clearly. Having gone 2-0 down Germany halved the deficit from a Beckenbauer shot that Bonetti should have saved and they then swarmed all over us eventually winning 3-2. Charlton was fatigued having run his socks off and was having less and less impact as the game progressed. If he'd stayed on he wouldn't have been fit enough to play the full 90 minutes of a Semi. Yes, we had a good first half, but once Germany scored it was obvious who was going to ultimately win as we were wilting in the heat.

I also take issue with you thinking we'd have beaten Italy in the Semi. They were the masters of 'Catenaccio' at that time as they demonstrated in the semi-final win over West Germany. It took the greatest international team I've ever seen with the greatest players I've ever seen to overcome them in what was an epic final.

[JuniorD]

LoonyTunes said:

Or, as every player I've ever played with does, just ignore history and play to your best on the day against the men in front of you.

I think we're just making excuses for what were basically inferior England teams. Inferior tactics or just plain bad luck (ie Maradonna's hand of god).

Spain were rubbish for over 50 years but when they had a good enough team, tactics and manager they won it - when we're good enough we'll win it too. Might not be in my life time though

In addition to the team, tactics and manager, some jolly good doping may have been of assistance in Spains period of dominance 2006-2010

http://www.sudinfo.be/gps?path=sports/foot_interna...

[TwigtheWonderkid]

LoonyTunes said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

No they weren't. We were 2-0 up and cruising. Would have been 3-0 up but Mullery didn't tap it over the line as he didn't want to take the goal off Astle. Then it bobbled at the last second and went wide!

Then Ramsey took off Charlton to save him for the semi we would never reach. Pure arrogance, due to our history.

I was 12 at the time and remember it clearly. Having gone 2-0 down Germany halved the deficit from a Beckenbauer shot that Bonetti should have saved and they then swarmed all over us eventually winning 3-2. Charlton was fatigued having run his socks off and was having less and less impact as the game progressed. If he'd stayed on he wouldn't have been fit enough to play the full 90 minutes of a Semi. Yes, we had a good first half, but once Germany scored it was obvious who was going to ultimately win as we were wilting in the heat.

I also take issue with you thinking we'd have beaten Italy in the Semi. They were the masters of 'Catenaccio' at that time as they demonstrated in the semi-final win over West Germany. It took the greatest international team I've ever seen with the greatest players I've ever seen to overcome them in what was an epic final.

Their first goal was basically the first time Beckenbauer had got free. He was too busy tracking Charlton. We he went off, it freed him up to run the rest of the game.

Italy conceded 3 in the semi and 4 in the final, so "masters of the catenaccio" is being very generous. It was an easily picked padlock. They were nothing special.

[LoonyTunes]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

LoonyTunes said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

No they weren't. We were 2-0 up and cruising. Would have been 3-0 up but Mullery didn't tap it over the line as he didn't want to take the goal off Astle. Then it bobbled at the last second and went wide!

Then Ramsey took off Charlton to save him for the semi we would never reach. Pure arrogance, due to our history.

I was 12 at the time and remember it clearly. Having gone 2-0 down Germany halved the deficit from a Beckenbauer shot that Bonetti should have saved and they then swarmed all over us eventually winning 3-2. Charlton was fatigued having run his socks off and was having less and less impact as the game progressed. If he'd stayed on he wouldn't have been fit enough to play the full 90 minutes of a Semi. Yes, we had a good first half, but once Germany scored it was obvious who was going to ultimately win as we were wilting in the heat.

I also take issue with you thinking we'd have beaten Italy in the Semi. They were the masters of 'Catenaccio' at that time as they demonstrated in the semi-final win over West Germany. It took the greatest international team I've ever seen with the greatest players I've ever seen to overcome them in what was an epic final.

Their first goal was basically the first time Beckenbauer had got free. He was too busy tracking Charlton. We he went off, it freed him up to run the rest of the game.

Italy conceded 3 in the semi and 4 in the final, so "masters of the catenaccio" is being very generous. It was an easily picked padlock. They were nothing special.

"Nothing special"......they were quite easily the 2nd best team in the world at that point. They had both Riva and Rivera in their side, superstars of the day. In the Semi Final they sat back and every time Germany scored they came out of their shell and quickly replied only to pop back and allow Germany to come onto them - it was a masterclass in the dark art of catenaccio. It took Brazil at their best-ever to overcome it and boy did they.