The Official England Thread-The Team We All Support [Vol 2]
Discussion
Quite a good 'Sliding Doors' article in The Independent which shows the alternative headlines they had prepared so that they could file their stories immediately.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/world...
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/world...
For the first time in ages, England actually have a bloody team. Not a gaggle of safe big names who turn up together but an actual freaking team.
Sweden is well within the realms of possibility. Semi final of either Russia or Croatia.
Don't think its coming home but a World Cup Final is within grasp!!!!
// Thought I'd have a few safe "no red card" bets . Even though it was only a tenner. Certainly looked to be down the drain the way COL were behaving.
Sweden is well within the realms of possibility. Semi final of either Russia or Croatia.
Don't think its coming home but a World Cup Final is within grasp!!!!
// Thought I'd have a few safe "no red card" bets . Even though it was only a tenner. Certainly looked to be down the drain the way COL were behaving.
Blackpuddin said:
A bit of Barnes Tube action
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFU6Hs3noIM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFU6Hs3noIM
most excellent.TwigtheWonderkid said:
Jordan210 said:
Im amazed at the amount of Colombia fans thinking they got cheated by the ref.
Must have been watching a different game to everyone else.
They were just watching the same game but coming at it from a totally different football culture. Bending the rules to breaking point is seen as completely normal in Colombian football, indeed to be expected and admired. Headbutting an opponent off the ball and out of sight of the officials is nothing to be ashamed of, in fact it's a badge of honour. If that's been your football upbringing since you could walk, to suddenly find VAR takes a dim view on it must come as a bit of a shock. Must have been watching a different game to everyone else.
Scuffing up the pen spot before the kick is taken, actually even I'm secretly quite impressed with that. If Kane had missed the pen, that defender would have been a national hero.
It will be the same if and when we meet Brazil.
warch said:
HRL said:
Not sure why Driver101 is appearing to stick up for the Colombians. Their behaviour was disgusting throughout the match.
Yes a couple of England players succumbed to the near constant fouling and acting but I think the team showed remarkable restraint all things considered.
I completely agree, they lost their heads after Columbia equalised and for the first fifteen minutes of extra time, but were remarkably calm otherwise, especially during the penalty shootout. Colombia were absolutely despicable, no respect for the other team shown whatsoever. I'm amazed none of their players got two yellows.Yes a couple of England players succumbed to the near constant fouling and acting but I think the team showed remarkable restraint all things considered.
I suspect Driver101 is either a) Colombian, b) an ABE supporter or c) someone who spunked all his money up the wall backing Colombia to go through.
Blackpuddin said:
A bit of Barnes Tube action
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFU6Hs3noIM
From nearly two years ago! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFU6Hs3noIM
Driver101 said:
HRL said:
Not sure why Driver101 is appearing to stick up for the Colombians. Their behaviour was disgusting throughout the match.
Yes a couple of England players succumbed to the near constant fouling and acting but I think the team showed remarkable restraint all things considered.
I'm not defending Colombia at all. Their behaviour was awful at times last night. I'm merely responded to a post about why the Colombians might have felt cheated. They had big calls go against them which have been ignored. Yes a couple of England players succumbed to the near constant fouling and acting but I think the team showed remarkable restraint all things considered.
Their conduct was awful last night and it shouldn't be tolerated getting on the ref's back and grappling. When then concentrated on playing football they were the better team.
And the England player tapping the Colombian on the head with his boot, could have been a red - probably a yellow would have been fair though - he only tapped him after all. I think the commentary team completely brushed over every 'gamesmanship' incident from England players and exaggerated the Colombian incidents. That throw in was a mistake too - play to the whistle and the ref blew his whistle to start the game and Young threw it in.....so yes, Colombia have every bit as much for complaint as England do - both were at their tricks big style, right from the start and the 2 diving incidents from the England players - how people can see those incidents and say they weren't dives I'll never know. The same people who slated Neymar for his falling backwards penalty incident lol....at least Neymar was actually touched in that one!
This is what happens when the commentary team are all England fans though - they aren't exactly neutral observers which is why people are thinking it was Colombia who were the worst, or it was Colombia who started it....that's not the game I watched - both were as bad as each other when you take out the biased commentary and just watch the game.
To be fair, if you start haranguing the ref, he is unlikely to give you the rub of the green. Colombia deliberately set out to intimidate England in every way they could, little shoves, knocks etc (witness the coach elbowing Sterling as he left the pitch). Trying to break up the pitch under the penalty spot was another blatant rules infringement.
England had to respond in kind up to a point and fair play to the ref, he allowed them to do so. Colombia set their stall out and England gave as good as they got.
England had to respond in kind up to a point and fair play to the ref, he allowed them to do so. Colombia set their stall out and England gave as good as they got.
warch said:
To be fair, if you start haranguing the ref, he is unlikely to give you the rub of the green. Colombia deliberately set out to intimidate England in every way they could, little shoves, knocks etc (witness the coach elbowing Sterling as he left the pitch). Trying to break up the pitch under the penalty spot was another blatant rules infringement.
England had to respond in kind up to a point and fair play to the ref, he allowed them to do so. Colombia set their stall out and England gave as good as they got.
I agree with that, and the penalty spot one is a new low for football - don't think I've ever heard of that! I think if you watched the match again, you would see England pushing and shoving right from the start though. The England penalty for example - Kane pushed the Colombian first and when the Colombian tried to get back in front of Kane - he gave away a penalty. Clear foul - but Kane pushed 1st, which is why I think the Colombians were so aggrieved.England had to respond in kind up to a point and fair play to the ref, he allowed them to do so. Colombia set their stall out and England gave as good as they got.
soupdragon1 said:
Driver101 said:
HRL said:
Not sure why Driver101 is appearing to stick up for the Colombians. Their behaviour was disgusting throughout the match.
Yes a couple of England players succumbed to the near constant fouling and acting but I think the team showed remarkable restraint all things considered.
I'm not defending Colombia at all. Their behaviour was awful at times last night. I'm merely responded to a post about why the Colombians might have felt cheated. They had big calls go against them which have been ignored. Yes a couple of England players succumbed to the near constant fouling and acting but I think the team showed remarkable restraint all things considered.
Their conduct was awful last night and it shouldn't be tolerated getting on the ref's back and grappling. When then concentrated on playing football they were the better team.
And the England player tapping the Colombian on the head with his boot, could have been a red - probably a yellow would have been fair though - he only tapped him after all. I think the commentary team completely brushed over every 'gamesmanship' incident from England players and exaggerated the Colombian incidents. That throw in was a mistake too - play to the whistle and the ref blew his whistle to start the game and Young threw it in.....so yes, Colombia have every bit as much for complaint as England do - both were at their tricks big style, right from the start and the 2 diving incidents from the England players - how people can see those incidents and say they weren't dives I'll never know. The same people who slated Neymar for his falling backwards penalty incident lol....at least Neymar was actually touched in that one!
This is what happens when the commentary team are all England fans though - they aren't exactly neutral observers which is why people are thinking it was Colombia who were the worst, or it was Colombia who started it....that's not the game I watched - both were as bad as each other when you take out the biased commentary and just watch the game.
I feel I can watch a game and give a fair opinion. Last night the coverage was OTT. They underplayed, or completely ignored, everything England done and overplayed everything Colombia did bad.
The group hounding of a ref always looks especially bad. The ref didn't help himself with so many weak calls and a failure to take action.
It would have been Lingard's second yellow for his dive.
It was Maguire that put the boot into the Colombian's head. Could have been a red. Even if it was only a yellow he should have seen another yellow for his dive. Hoddle excused Maguire for his dive as he apologised right after it. He only apologised as he realised how bad his dive was and should have been booked.
Henderson's headbutt was similar to the first half incident. One was deemed a definite red card and caused uproar whilst the other was excused.
Young went over the ball with his studs too. Alli left his studs showing for a clearance too. Something he's criticised for often in the league.
There is no justifiable reason for the ref to stop play once Young had started play.
They weren't mentioned during the play last night and the match reports also fail to touch on most of England's contribution to the uglier side of the match.
Driver101 said:
soupdragon1 said:
Driver101 said:
HRL said:
Not sure why Driver101 is appearing to stick up for the Colombians. Their behaviour was disgusting throughout the match.
Yes a couple of England players succumbed to the near constant fouling and acting but I think the team showed remarkable restraint all things considered.
I'm not defending Colombia at all. Their behaviour was awful at times last night. I'm merely responded to a post about why the Colombians might have felt cheated. They had big calls go against them which have been ignored. Yes a couple of England players succumbed to the near constant fouling and acting but I think the team showed remarkable restraint all things considered.
Their conduct was awful last night and it shouldn't be tolerated getting on the ref's back and grappling. When then concentrated on playing football they were the better team.
And the England player tapping the Colombian on the head with his boot, could have been a red - probably a yellow would have been fair though - he only tapped him after all. I think the commentary team completely brushed over every 'gamesmanship' incident from England players and exaggerated the Colombian incidents. That throw in was a mistake too - play to the whistle and the ref blew his whistle to start the game and Young threw it in.....so yes, Colombia have every bit as much for complaint as England do - both were at their tricks big style, right from the start and the 2 diving incidents from the England players - how people can see those incidents and say they weren't dives I'll never know. The same people who slated Neymar for his falling backwards penalty incident lol....at least Neymar was actually touched in that one!
This is what happens when the commentary team are all England fans though - they aren't exactly neutral observers which is why people are thinking it was Colombia who were the worst, or it was Colombia who started it....that's not the game I watched - both were as bad as each other when you take out the biased commentary and just watch the game.
I feel I can watch a game and give a fair opinion. Last night the coverage was OTT. They underplayed, or completely ignored, everything England done and overplayed everything Colombia did bad.
The group hounding of a ref always looks especially bad. The ref didn't help himself with so many weak calls and a failure to take action.
It would have been Lingard's second yellow for his dive.
It was Maguire that put the boot into the Colombian's head. Could have been a red. Even if it was only a yellow he should have seen another yellow for his dive. Hoddle excused Maguire for his dive as he apologised right after it. He only apologised as he realised how bad his dive was and should have been booked.
Henderson's headbutt was similar to the first half incident. One was deemed a definite red card and caused uproar whilst the other was excused.
Young went over the ball with his studs too. Alli left his studs showing for a clearance too. Something he's criticised for often in the league.
There is no justifiable reason for the ref to stop play once Young had started play.
They weren't mentioned during the play last night and the match reports also fail to touch on most of England's contribution to the uglier side of the match.
In terms of red cards - I'm of the opinion that the punishment should fit the crime. Technically, the Henderson and Maguire incidents could have been interpreted as a red card for either team but in my own opinion, because they aren't really 'violent conduct' I think a yellow is a fair punishment.
You won't get seriously hurt if someone bumps your chin with their head, or runs their boot across your head. A full on head butt or a full on kick to the head is violent conduct and should be a red card but for those 'lesser' offences last night - I think yellow is fine. All this chat of 'any contact on a players head/face should be a red' isn't really a good ruling to have IMO. There's a big difference between a light hit to the head and a full blown hit to the head.
I did notice a fair amount of (if you'll pardon the expression) 'going down easily' from the boys in red, although I think they rather tailored their approach to match that of Colombia.
Colombia didn't help themselves though, surrounding the ref at every opportunity, arguing the toss about every infringement and slamming the ball down after every free kick decision. It was a clash of two different footballing cultures. I can't stand the way some (largely Central or South American) players carry on, some people would call it passionate, I tend to see it as unsportsmanlike.
Colombia didn't help themselves though, surrounding the ref at every opportunity, arguing the toss about every infringement and slamming the ball down after every free kick decision. It was a clash of two different footballing cultures. I can't stand the way some (largely Central or South American) players carry on, some people would call it passionate, I tend to see it as unsportsmanlike.
alli was a passenger and offered nothing to the game and neither oddly did lingard although he took a hefty whack early doors.
lets face it both us and sweden have now punched above our weight let it continue - for us obviously.
other qtr in our half tough to call....a good croatia team against a rising host nation that you should never back against...
glory beckons!
the other half of the draw - wow. a possible uruguay brazil semi.....now that would be worth a look
lets face it both us and sweden have now punched above our weight let it continue - for us obviously.
other qtr in our half tough to call....a good croatia team against a rising host nation that you should never back against...
glory beckons!
the other half of the draw - wow. a possible uruguay brazil semi.....now that would be worth a look
soupdragon1 said:
Both teams were at it from the off - only that the Colombians weren't very good at disguising it. Every time there was a set play, England players were pushing and shoving everywhere knowing full well that if they get caught, they give away a free kick but if Colombia get caught, its a penalty. Just crafty gamesmanship from England.
have you ever played the game? or are you Scottish?Whilst your general point (BBC commentary may be slightly pro-England) is true but obvious, if you cannot tell the difference between the pushing and shoving that every single player in the box does for every single corner, and the Colombian rugby tackling and then practically jumping on Kane's back, maybe football is not for you?
did Southgate shove their player as he left the field? would an England player have scuffed up the penalty spot? They were dirty as hell and we played against that intelligently rather than naively playing the game with 100% honesty and honour when no one else does. If someone butts your chest and chin you go down holding your chin/face, but resist 500 rolls a la Neymar
Edited by Adam B on Wednesday 4th July 16:12
I watched the game at home in the USA with the American commentary team. That consisted of ex women's international Aly Wagner (execrable, calls midfield players "mids" and states the obvious continuously) and Scotsman Derek Rae. This team have done every England game so far. Rae is ok and they are both impartial. Both criticized the American referee with Wagner being particularly critical of his lack of control.
For the last two world cups the American broadcasters have used veteran British commentators, FOX are mainly using Americans. Which is a mistake.
We do get Ian Wright in the studio which is fun but unfortunately that is counterbalanced by the fact that we also get Kelly Smith.
For the last two world cups the American broadcasters have used veteran British commentators, FOX are mainly using Americans. Which is a mistake.
We do get Ian Wright in the studio which is fun but unfortunately that is counterbalanced by the fact that we also get Kelly Smith.
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