Cristiano Ronaldo
Discussion
Zoon said:
Davos123 said:
It's still Messi.
Well according to the stats it isn't.Ronaldo has been better in the Champions League - that's it.
Messi is probably having his best ever season, he's getting a goal a game and an assist every other. He's utterly incredible, really hope we end up with a Barca Vs Juve final. The two best players of all time going at it.
aeropilot said:
That to me is the factor that sets him above Messi. For me there will always be the question mark over Messi because of his clear reluctance to leave Barca and prove its him rather than the club.
Never understood this - Maldini goes in pretty much everyone's ATG back 4, along with Baresi for many - both never left Milan - Scholes, Zanetti - even people like Baggio who never left their respective league - It doesn't make them any less of a player. Messi has scored more goals against the top 4 in the PL than Ronaldo and he's never played in it - I'm sure he'd do fine playing against Kurt Zouma.Not saying your opinion is wrong, I just don't get the idea that being a one club man or one league man makes you a lesser player?
JLC25 said:
aeropilot said:
That to me is the factor that sets him above Messi. For me there will always be the question mark over Messi because of his clear reluctance to leave Barca and prove its him rather than the club.
Never understood this - Maldini goes in pretty much everyone's ATG back 4, along with Baresi for many - both never left Milan - Scholes, Zanetti - even people like Baggio who never left their respective league - It doesn't make them any less of a player. Messi has scored more goals against the top 4 in the PL than Ronaldo and he's never played in it - I'm sure he'd do fine playing against Kurt Zouma.Not saying your opinion is wrong, I just don't get the idea that being a one club man or one league man makes you a lesser player?
Also spanish league is alot less physical and more attacking.
Slow said:
Its more the fact he has a awesome team around him all the time.
He does - But Ronaldo has played with Juventus who have won 8+ Scudettos on the run, a Man United team in their prime with the greatest manager ever, and a Real Madrid side with Modric, Bale, Ramos, Kroos etc - It's not like Maradona dragging Napoli to a title is it?I have no idea how you can watch someone like Messi and think "He wouldn't play well in another team". or another league. The mans a complete freak.
JLC25 said:
I have no idea how you can watch someone like Messi and think "He wouldn't play well in another team". or another league. The mans a complete freak.
It's not that he couldn't, more that he hasn't.The best (for me anyway) always want to push again, try something else, something new, pit themselves against others. Messi hasn't done that.
And btw Ronaldo dragged a bang average Portugal team to a Euro championship.
Has anyone who says "it's not physical" about the Spanish league ever watched how teams mark Messi? They try every bit as hard to smash him as they would in England, they just can't get near him. Messi not playing in other leagues doesn't stop us knowing he'd tear them all to pieces, he's ruined all the top teams in Europe on multiple occasions.
Zoon said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Shame he's so arrogant, vain and if the rumours are to be believed a bit rapey.
He certainly knows how to kick a ball but he's one of the most dislikable people in sport, and that's saying something.
There's a video doing the rounds of him stopping to have his photo taken with a group of disabled supporters after the rest of his team walked straight past them. It's also worth looking for the video of him visiting a childrens hospital, gives you a bit more of an idea what he's really like.He certainly knows how to kick a ball but he's one of the most dislikable people in sport, and that's saying something.
Doesn't mean that everytime he lifts his shirt up when he's celebrating I don't think prick.
JLC25 said:
Messi has scored more goals against the top 4 in the PL than Ronaldo and he's never played in it - I'm sure he'd do fine playing against Kurt Zouma.
Depends on who the top 4 currently as, but yes, that's an astonishing fact. Messi has stored plenty of goals vs. the English teams in the CL, ridiculous really!Davos123 said:
Has anyone who says "it's not physical" about the Spanish league ever watched how teams mark Messi? They try every bit as hard to smash him as they would in England, they just can't get near him. Messi not playing in other leagues doesn't stop us knowing he'd tear them all to pieces, he's ruined all the top teams in Europe on multiple occasions.
He's a lazy b
d Messi, just stands around most of the time then scores a goal or two, or three. 
Besides, Ronnie's just as comfortable on his left as his right also is arguably the best attacking header of a ball the game has seen. Messi can't hold a candle to Ronnie's weak foot and heading ability.
They both score freekicks and penalties. Albeit I do think Messi is the better free kick taker, just.
anniesdad said:
Besides, Ronnie's just as comfortable on his left as his right also is arguably the best attacking header of a ball the game has seen. Messi can't hold a candle to Ronnie's weak foot and heading ability.
I think there's two ways of judging great goal scorers.When it comes down to the amount of goals - Lionel has and should retire with the better records - 91 in a year, Most in the Classico etc.
However - when it comes to scoring any type of goal, your man Ronaldo is the best - His physical attributes are outrageous as well as his determination.
The debate of Ronaldo vs Messi may very well come down to a persons personal preference of the type of football they prefer.
Messi has undoubtedly got very silky skills and can go past any one player in the world but football isn't necessarily played that way and for me Ronaldo edges it just as a better all-round player. Whilst the Maldini-never-moved-either argument is good, the point falls down when you consider the teams he played in were ever always the best or better teams - you can't really say that for Messi and Barcelona.
I would argue that on more occasions than Messi has, Ronaldo has taken his own teams by the scruff of the neck and across the line to win; put simply, Messi plays incredibly well Barcelona play well (which is a lot), but Ronaldo has more often had to play well and win a game when the team around him is occasionally pretty mediocre.
Can anyone name a game when Barcelona have played quite poorly yet Messi has won the game seemingly single-handedly for them?
They are both remarkably good players and it's always been fascinating to have them play in the exact same era and same league even; Pele, Cruyff, Beckenbauer et al almost only ever faced each other at World Cups and Best only ever showed true greatness in his Manchester shirt - and almost all separated by a few years, so having Ronaldo and Messi so close together in time and space is really quite remarkable.
Lets all agree to disagree - they are both the outstanding players of the present era and last ten years, the like of which we might not see again. Nearly everyone will prefer one over the other and that perhaps says more about our own understanding, preference and style of football than it does theirs.
Messi has undoubtedly got very silky skills and can go past any one player in the world but football isn't necessarily played that way and for me Ronaldo edges it just as a better all-round player. Whilst the Maldini-never-moved-either argument is good, the point falls down when you consider the teams he played in were ever always the best or better teams - you can't really say that for Messi and Barcelona.
I would argue that on more occasions than Messi has, Ronaldo has taken his own teams by the scruff of the neck and across the line to win; put simply, Messi plays incredibly well Barcelona play well (which is a lot), but Ronaldo has more often had to play well and win a game when the team around him is occasionally pretty mediocre.
Can anyone name a game when Barcelona have played quite poorly yet Messi has won the game seemingly single-handedly for them?
They are both remarkably good players and it's always been fascinating to have them play in the exact same era and same league even; Pele, Cruyff, Beckenbauer et al almost only ever faced each other at World Cups and Best only ever showed true greatness in his Manchester shirt - and almost all separated by a few years, so having Ronaldo and Messi so close together in time and space is really quite remarkable.
Lets all agree to disagree - they are both the outstanding players of the present era and last ten years, the like of which we might not see again. Nearly everyone will prefer one over the other and that perhaps says more about our own understanding, preference and style of football than it does theirs.
JLC25 said:
Slow said:
Its more the fact he has a awesome team around him all the time.
He does - But Ronaldo has played with Juventus who have won 8+ Scudettos on the run, a Man United team in their prime with the greatest manager ever, and a Real Madrid side with Modric, Bale, Ramos, Kroos etc - It's not like Maradona dragging Napoli to a title is it?I have no idea how you can watch someone like Messi and think "He wouldn't play well in another team". or another league. The mans a complete freak.
Neuer
Rijkaard. Baresi. Roberto Carlos.
Zidane. Redondo. Matthaus.
Maradona. Ronaldo OG. Romario. Ronaldo CR7.
Subs: Robson, Kaka, Shevchenko,
I think this team has goals from every position; a keeper/sweeper working well with Italy’s finest ever defender. Rijkaard can play anywhere and reads the game so well, Roberto Carlos keeps the left flank clean and thunders in shots every ten minutes.
Deep-lying. Redondo maintains shape in the middle, is the glue, and can alternate with Matthaus to drop deep. Matthaus in ‘90 shape, so huge amounts of box-to-box energy which edges out Robson. ZZ just supplies bullets.
Romario, the ultimate poacher. Ronaldo OG probably the fastest guy ever to wander through multiple players from impossible situations: lots of opportunity to see that buck toothed smile. Maradona and Ronaldo CR7 pick themselves.
Kaka can sub in any of the front four. Prime Shevchenko (‘03-06) can take over from Ronaldo OG. Robson can come on to stabilise the middle if Redondo or someone picks up a yellow. Boban, can do it all.
Too young to see them play but for old people my concessions would be: Breitner (a triple threat apparently), Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Puskas.
Rijkaard. Baresi. Roberto Carlos.
Zidane. Redondo. Matthaus.
Maradona. Ronaldo OG. Romario. Ronaldo CR7.
Subs: Robson, Kaka, Shevchenko,
I think this team has goals from every position; a keeper/sweeper working well with Italy’s finest ever defender. Rijkaard can play anywhere and reads the game so well, Roberto Carlos keeps the left flank clean and thunders in shots every ten minutes.
Deep-lying. Redondo maintains shape in the middle, is the glue, and can alternate with Matthaus to drop deep. Matthaus in ‘90 shape, so huge amounts of box-to-box energy which edges out Robson. ZZ just supplies bullets.
Romario, the ultimate poacher. Ronaldo OG probably the fastest guy ever to wander through multiple players from impossible situations: lots of opportunity to see that buck toothed smile. Maradona and Ronaldo CR7 pick themselves.
Kaka can sub in any of the front four. Prime Shevchenko (‘03-06) can take over from Ronaldo OG. Robson can come on to stabilise the middle if Redondo or someone picks up a yellow. Boban, can do it all.
Too young to see them play but for old people my concessions would be: Breitner (a triple threat apparently), Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Puskas.
McGee_22 said:
.
I would argue that on more occasions than Messi has, Ronaldo has taken his own teams by the scruff of the neck and across the line to win; put simply, Messi plays incredibly well Barcelona play well (which is a lot), but Ronaldo has more often had to play well and win a game when the team around him is occasionally pretty mediocre.
Can anyone name a game when Barcelona have played quite poorly yet Messi has won the game seemingly single-handedly for them?
This entire season has been Messi near single-handedly dragging Barca along with him whilst other attackers have underperformed. He's putting in his best ever season potentially whilst in the worst team he's played in I would argue that on more occasions than Messi has, Ronaldo has taken his own teams by the scruff of the neck and across the line to win; put simply, Messi plays incredibly well Barcelona play well (which is a lot), but Ronaldo has more often had to play well and win a game when the team around him is occasionally pretty mediocre.
Can anyone name a game when Barcelona have played quite poorly yet Messi has won the game seemingly single-handedly for them?
Driver101 said:
Cheeky penalty by Messi tonight.
May I direct you to the appropriate thread? https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
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