Cristiano Ronaldo

[McGee_22]

Zen_Master said:

There are so many arguments because people have the biases and preferences which is all well any good. Most people would say that Messi is objectively better in terms of statistics and also general ability. What is Ronaldo better than Messi at in terms footballing ability? Heading the ball and penalties?
Messi is just as good and in my opinion the better goal scorer than Ronaldo yet he’s also a phenomenal playmaker, something Ronaldo isn’t.

Ronaldo has many more records than Messi? According to wiki Messi has around 160 records and Ronaldo around 110.

Club goals they’re just about even despite the fact Ronaldo has been playing for longer (although to be fair has moved around more).

Ronaldo just about beats him in international goals but then again he does get the benefit of playing part time plumbers occasionally.

Messi has higher goals per game ratio in Champions league.

Messi has far more assists it’s not even worth comparing.

Oh and in terms of individual awards:

Ballon d’Or - 5 for Ronaldo 6 for Messi
best FIFA Men’s Player - 2 for Ronaldo 1 for Messi
European Golden shoe - 4 for Ronaldo 6 for Messi
World Cup golden Ball - 0 for Ronaldo 1 for Messi
UEFA player of the year - 4 for Ronaldo 3 for Messi
FIFAPro World XI - 14 times each
Player of the Year (league) - 4 for Ronaldo 6 for Messi.

So yeah statistically they’re pretty close with Messi just having the edge. But how anyone can watch the 2 of them play and think it’s close is beyond me.

Ronaldo is like Gerd Müller, a great prolific goal scorer.

Messi is like a combination Gerd Müller in the sense he is a great politic goal scorer, Maradona (dribbling) and Cruyff (passing).. Only thing that lets Messi down is his lack of leadership ability.

I only had to glance at one of your statements to make you look silly...

International goals, source, wikipedia.

Ronaldo. Total, 106. 87 competitive, 19 friendly.
Messi. Total, 73. 39 competitive, 34 friendly.

You said said:

Ronaldo just about beats him in international goals but then again he does get the benefit of playing part time plumbers occasionally.

Yep, I think you have a real grasp of the facts...

[Zen_Master]

McGee_22 said:

Yep, I think you have a real grasp of the facts...

Oh dear, you actually think you did something didn’t you? Why you have decided to include friendlies I have no idea. You have conveniently decided to leave out the number of caps though. If you hadn’t you’d see Ronaldo’s goal per game ratio internationally is 0.6 whereas Messi’s in 0.5. As I said “just about” beats him. I see you didn’t even try to counter the point about playing part timers though which I think adds an important dynamic to the figures.

Never mind the fact that out of the whole post that’s the only aspect you thought had a chance of arguing against and yet you still failed miserably.

Would you like to try again?

[mko9]

McGee_22 said:

Yep, I think you have a real grasp of the facts...

Well done, you have disputed 1 of 12 statistics put forward

[McGee_22]

Zen_Master said:

Oh dear, you actually think you did something didn’t you? Why you have decided to include friendlies I have no idea. You have conveniently decided to leave out the number of caps though. If you hadn’t you’d see Ronaldo’s goal per game ratio internationally is 0.6 whereas Messi’s in 0.5. As I said “just about” beats him. I see you didn’t even try to counter the point about playing part timers though which I think adds an important dynamic to the figures.

Never mind the fact that out of the whole post that’s the only aspect you thought had a chance of arguing against and yet you still failed miserably.

Would you like to try again?

It appears you just have to keep posting to make yourself look silly

International competitive goals, source, wikipedia.

Ronaldo. Total 87 competitive.
Messi. Total 39 competitive.

You said:

Ronaldo just about beats him in international goals but then again he does get the benefit of playing part time plumbers occasionally.

[Zen_Master]

McGee_22 said:

Zen_Master said:

Oh dear, you actually think you did something didn’t you? Why you have decided to include friendlies I have no idea. You have conveniently decided to leave out the number of caps though. If you hadn’t you’d see Ronaldo’s goal per game ratio internationally is 0.6 whereas Messi’s in 0.5. As I said “just about” beats him. I see you didn’t even try to counter the point about playing part timers though which I think adds an important dynamic to the figures.

Never mind the fact that out of the whole post that’s the only aspect you thought had a chance of arguing against and yet you still failed miserably.

Would you like to try again?

It appears you just have to keep posting to make yourself look silly

International competitive goals, source, wikipedia.

Ronaldo. Total 87 competitive.
Messi. Total 39 competitive.

You said:

Ronaldo just about beats him in international goals but then again he does get the benefit of playing part time plumbers occasionally.

Fair play, I did get mixed up a bit I’ll admit! Still stand by my point that the overall standard of Copa America is higher than that of the Euros.

Also, 39 competitive goals isn’t too bad for a midfielder don’t you think?

[hyphen]

Zen_Master said:

Ballon d’Or - 5 for Ronaldo 6 for Messi
best FIFA Men’s Player - 2 for Ronaldo 1 for Messi
European Golden shoe - 4 for Ronaldo 6 for Messi
World Cup golden Ball - 0 for Ronaldo 1 for Messi
UEFA player of the year - 4 for Ronaldo 3 for Messi
FIFAPro World XI - 14 times each
Player of the Year (league) - 4 for Ronaldo 6 for Messi.

Messi hasn't left Barcelona, Ronaldo has excelled in multiple teams and leagues. Argentina is a better quality team than Portugal.

If Messi had played in different teams and leagues then would be a better comparison.

[ColdoRS]

hyphen said:

Zen_Master said:

Ballon d’Or - 5 for Ronaldo 6 for Messi
best FIFA Men’s Player - 2 for Ronaldo 1 for Messi
European Golden shoe - 4 for Ronaldo 6 for Messi
World Cup golden Ball - 0 for Ronaldo 1 for Messi
UEFA player of the year - 4 for Ronaldo 3 for Messi
FIFAPro World XI - 14 times each
Player of the Year (league) - 4 for Ronaldo 6 for Messi.

Messi hasn't left Barca, Ronaldo has excelled in multiple teams and leagues. Argentina is a better quality team than Portugal.

If Messi had played in different teams and leagues then would be a better comparison.

This is it for me. Ronaldo has proven his ability to do it at many teams in many leagues.
Messi has been scared to leave Barca. His style of play and success is largely determined by the style of football Barca play, hence him flopping internationally. Ronaldo could go to Norwich and score 30 a season.

Until Messi moves leagues and dominates like Ronaldo has been able to, I don’t buy any claims that he’s better than Ronaldo.

[Ruskie]

Some bad takes in this thread by the way!

[McGee_22]

Zen_Master said:

Fair play, I did get mixed up a bit I’ll admit! Still stand by my point that the overall standard of Copa America is higher than that of the Euros.

Also, 39 competitive goals isn’t too bad for a midfielder don’t you think?

Well done for fessing up

By any measurement 87 is not 'just about beating' 39 - it's easily more than double and stands on its own as an amazing figure in modern times. 39 for a midfielder in the modern game? Again pretty staggering but you have to agree he is more of an attacking fielder rather than a stoic 'they shall not pass' holding midfielder.

IMHO I don't think you can objectively separate Ronaldo and Messi - their facts, stats and records are simply staggering for the modern generation but people will always have their subjective opinions on who is better.

Messi has perhaps the highest individual skill level since Ronaldinho and Zidane and has always some incredibly good players immediately around him who play the same way he does, and following that argument through you have to say the Messi Barcelona has to rank as one of the greatest teams ever assembled. The skill level displayed by Messi's Barcelona is simply wonderful to watch and has been proven by the trophies they have all won together

Ronaldo had turned his natural attributes and athleticism into almost a peak of perfection as an attacking, fast, predatory striker. He has pedalled his wares across three different club teams and won the highest awards with all three of them, often dragging a team up with his sheer will to win and determination to be the best he can personally be.

I don't think Ronaldo could play the way Messi does but I do think he could have scored just as many goals and won lots of awards and trophies in that Barcelona team without Messi.

Now ask yourself whether Messi could have scored as many goals and won just as many awards and trophies in the Man Utd, Real and Juventus teams as Ronaldo did? If you genuinely think the answer is yes you are kidding yourself.

Messi's Barcelona is one of the greatest teams with Messi up their as one of the greatest players of all time. Ronaldo stands on his own through three teams as one of greatest players of all time. We have been so lucky to watch their almost chalk and cheese ways to play football to its highest level.

Now who would you pick for your own five a side team?

Me, I'd take...







































Zidane

[monty999]

ColdoRS said:

This is it for me. Ronaldo has proven his ability to do it at many teams in many leagues.
Messi has been scared to leave Barca. His style of play and success is largely determined by the style of football Barca play, hence him flopping internationally. Ronaldo could go to Norwich and score 30 a season.

Until Messi moves leagues and dominates like Ronaldo has been able to, I don’t buy any claims that he’s better than Ronaldo.

Both very, very good players I think all will agree. But Ronaldo or Messi playing for Norwich (or other similar teams) and scoring for fun as they have done at their premier, top teams is obviously not going to happen unfortunately so we will never know. Messi has done well for easily one of the top two sides in Spain and Ronaldo, although he has done well in different teams, they have all been top sides already winning things quite easily, Juventus had already won their league several years running (bit like going to Scotland and winning the league with Celtic racking up goals and trophy stats). Now, IMO, Maradona's achievement in dragging Napoli to the Italian title would trump both of their successes.

[Slow]

monty999 said:

ColdoRS said:

This is it for me. Ronaldo has proven his ability to do it at many teams in many leagues.
Messi has been scared to leave Barca. His style of play and success is largely determined by the style of football Barca play, hence him flopping internationally. Ronaldo could go to Norwich and score 30 a season.

Until Messi moves leagues and dominates like Ronaldo has been able to, I don’t buy any claims that he’s better than Ronaldo.

Both very, very good players I think all will agree. But Ronaldo or Messi playing for Norwich (or other similar teams) and scoring for fun as they have done at their premier, top teams is obviously not going to happen unfortunately so we will never know. Messi has done well for easily one of the top two sides in Spain and Ronaldo, although he has done well in different teams, they have all been top sides already winning things quite easily, Juventus had already won their league several years running (bit like going to Scotland and winning the league with Celtic racking up goals and trophy stats). Now, IMO, Maradona's achievement in dragging Napoli to the Italian title would trump both of their successes.

So lukaku is the best striker ever? Or do inter not count. Maybe vardy dragging them to the title? Seems a odd requirement.

[Chris Stott]

ColdoRS said:

This is it for me. Ronaldo has proven his ability to do it at many teams in many leagues.
Messi has been scared to leave Barca. His style of play and success is largely determined by the style of football Barca play, hence him flopping internationally. Ronaldo could go to Norwich and score 30 a season.

Until Messi moves leagues and dominates like Ronaldo has been able to, I don’t buy any claims that he’s better than Ronaldo.

This is a crock IMO.

Yes, Ronaldo won the English, Spanish and Italian league, but he won them with the best team in each of the respective leagues at the time - not with Norwich, Malaga or Napoli.

Perhaps Madrid weren’t always the best team during his time in Spain (Barcelona seemed to have the better of Madrid a lot of the time), but it wasn’t like there were 3 or 4 teams flighting for the title.

[hyphen]

Chris Stott said:

This is a crock IMO.

Yes, Ronaldo won the English, Spanish and Italian league, but he won them with the best team in each of the respective leagues at the time - not with Norwich, Malaga or Napoli...

Exactly.

He went to some of the best teams in the world, who had 3-5 other strikers plus attacking midfielders who could have seen him dropped to the bench (a la Bale and many others) and he has stepped up and delivered consistently.

And he works hard to ensure he doesn't get injured neither.

Messi is undoubtedly brilliant, and the more exciting player being a better dribbler and so on, but he has found a pond to be a big fish in, and he has settled there.

Nothing wrong with that, but it's always better from a neutrals point of view to judge when it is established that a player excels anywhere.

Ronaldo could have moved to China or USA and earned a lot more and not risked his legacy, but he went to Italy.

Edited by hyphen on Friday 25th June 22:22

[Blackpuddin]

This Top Trumps stuff is fine when you're talking about cars but a boring and irrelevant waste of time when you're talking about footballers. There'll never be a definitive answer as to who is GOAT. Let's just accept that they're both amazing players.

[Si1295]

McGee_22 said:

Well done for fessing up

By any measurement 87 is not 'just about beating' 39 - it's easily more than double and stands on its own as an amazing figure in modern times. 39 for a midfielder in the modern game? Again pretty staggering but you have to agree he is more of an attacking fielder rather than a stoic 'they shall not pass' holding midfielder.

IMHO I don't think you can objectively separate Ronaldo and Messi - their facts, stats and records are simply staggering for the modern generation but people will always have their subjective opinions on who is better.

Messi has perhaps the highest individual skill level since Ronaldinho and Zidane and has always some incredibly good players immediately around him who play the same way he does, and following that argument through you have to say the Messi Barcelona has to rank as one of the greatest teams ever assembled. The skill level displayed by Messi's Barcelona is simply wonderful to watch and has been proven by the trophies they have all won together

Ronaldo had turned his natural attributes and athleticism into almost a peak of perfection as an attacking, fast, predatory striker. He has pedalled his wares across three different club teams and won the highest awards with all three of them, often dragging a team up with his sheer will to win and determination to be the best he can personally be.

I don't think Ronaldo could play the way Messi does but I do think he could have scored just as many goals and won lots of awards and trophies in that Barcelona team without Messi.

Now ask yourself whether Messi could have scored as many goals and won just as many awards and trophies in the Man Utd, Real and Juventus teams as Ronaldo did? If you genuinely think the answer is yes you are kidding yourself.

Messi's Barcelona is one of the greatest teams with Messi up their as one of the greatest players of all time. Ronaldo stands on his own through three teams as one of greatest players of all time. We have been so lucky to watch their almost chalk and cheese ways to play football to its highest level.

Now who would you pick for your own five a side team?

Me, I'd take...







































Zidane

The above has always been my take on them, the tl:dr version being:

Messi is the more talented and naturally gifted, Ronaldo worked and continues to work hard to be the best.

And

If you were to take one of them to improve a team it would be Ronaldo.

P.s My 5-a-side pick would be Rooney

[ColdoRS]

Chris Stott said:

ColdoRS said:

This is it for me. Ronaldo has proven his ability to do it at many teams in many leagues.
Messi has been scared to leave Barca. His style of play and success is largely determined by the style of football Barca play, hence him flopping internationally. Ronaldo could go to Norwich and score 30 a season.

Until Messi moves leagues and dominates like Ronaldo has been able to, I don’t buy any claims that he’s better than Ronaldo.

This is a crock IMO.

Yes, Ronaldo won the English, Spanish and Italian league, but he won them with the best team in each of the respective leagues at the time - not with Norwich, Malaga or Napoli. .

It’s not new information, but Ronaldo won the Euros with Portugal (not the best team!) and the nations league more recently.. Messi has done nothing internationally, not even the Copa America, a lesser competition than the European championships. Playing alongside Aguero, Higuain, Tevez, Di Maria, Dybala…..

Whilst I agree Ronaldo has played for the top teams, I can’t accept this as an argument as he moved to a Juve team who had players who could have kept a 30 something attacker on the bench - he didn’t have to risk it but imo it had only further solidified his position as the best.

[Zen_Master]

ColdoRS said:

It’s not new information, but Ronaldo won the Euros with Portugal (not the best team!) and the nations league more recently.. Messi has done nothing internationally, not even the Copa America, a lesser competition than the European championships. Playing alongside Aguero, Higuain, Tevez, Di Maria, Dybala…..

Whilst I agree Ronaldo has played for the top teams, I can’t accept this as an argument as he moved to a Juve team who had players who could have kept a 30 something attacker on the bench - he didn’t have to risk it but imo it had only further solidified his position as the best.

Aguero, Higuain, Tevez etc could all play at the same time could they? No mention of the trash midfield and defence then. Portugal have a far better squad than Argentina and have had for a few years now.

Juve signed Ronaldo because they could and because they thought it would help them win the CL. Clearly didn’t work out that way.

[Zen_Master]

The argument that Messi wouldn’t survive in any other system or team has always been a ridiculous one. In reality if he were to move it would be to another top team like City and he would be dominating even more than he has with Barca

[hyphen]

Zen_Master said:

The argument that Messi wouldn’t survive in any other system or team has always been a ridiculous one. In reality if he were to move it would be to another top team like City and he would be dominating even more than he has with Barca

His Barcelona contract runs out in days. So perhaps he will move.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57620897

[Thankyou4calling]

He won’t!

He’d be lost in the premier league.

It’d be embarrassing