The Official Arsenal - 14 x FA Cup winners thread - Vol 4
Discussion
Alfahorn said:
Arsene Wenger has unraveled all the good work he did. It's a massive job to repair the damage he has done.
I think this is long overdue, and I agree the squad is weaker than it was when he took over, but has he really ruined everything? I feel like he could have done a lot worse. We have a shout at a European trophy this year, which would make it four trophies in five years. A lot of clubs wouldn't mind that record at all. We don't have a 'right' to win anything or to be at the top all the time.
I'm still looking forward to having a new manager, as long as it's someone experienced.
leglessAlex said:
Alfahorn said:
Arsene Wenger has unraveled all the good work he did. It's a massive job to repair the damage he has done.
I'm not as harsh as Alfa, I can/will never forget all the fantastic things he has done for the club, but Wenger has ultimately tarnished his own legacy unfortunately.
I think if he had stepped down 5-6 years ago he could have been help in a similar esteem as Fergy, albeit without the same legacy. I doubt anyone will forget the impact he had on the league after he joined Arsenal, but at the same time everyone will know he stayed on too long and was on the decline when he left.
Raygun said:
Good riddance Wenger and fans of other teams spare us the patronising 'how we'll rue the day he leaves'
Not really a case of you'll rue the day he leaves - personally I think he'd got to the end of the road at Arsenal and it was a shame he didn't go after winning the FA Cup last year. However, the club is in a fundamentally good state financially, still has a few decent players and whoever comes in has a solid foundation on which to build. However, the good riddance, he's dragged our club down, etc, is just nonsense IMO. Only the Manchester clubs and Chelski have had more success on the pitch in the last 10 years and all have spent far more than Wenger was allowed for much of that time. My team (Leeds) was competitive with Arsenal in the late 90's and early 00's and I can tell you now I'd be delighted with the "failure" Arsenal have experienced for the last decade (as indeed would be the fans of most other clubs!). All a matter of perception I know but you haven't really had it that bad!
jammy-git said:
I think if he had stepped down 5-6 years ago he could have been help in a similar esteem as Fergy, albeit without the same legacy. I doubt anyone will forget the impact he had on the league after he joined Arsenal, but at the same time everyone will know he stayed on too long and was on the decline when he left.
I liken Arsene to Minder or Only Fools, he should have known when it was time to park the bus and get off.Alfahorn said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Alfahorn said:
Arsenal Football Club is a far worse state on the pitch than when he arrived at the club.
Not really, about level. Rioch finished 5th, this season you'll finish 6th. Rioch went out of the cup in R3, same as Wenger. Rioch lost in the league cup semi, Wenger lost in the final.Of course of the pitch you're in a much better state, new ground built and paid for, squillions in the bank.
So not exactly a squad to see him thru the years to come. Only Keown and Bergkamp were in the invicibles.
Listened to Ornstein on five live earlier. Apparently Joachim Low is not in the frame and had no impact at all on Ozil signing again.
Looks like some contact has been made with Enrique. And Ancelotti is clearly interested. One of those two would be a result in my opinion. Especially enrique.
Looks like some contact has been made with Enrique. And Ancelotti is clearly interested. One of those two would be a result in my opinion. Especially enrique.
JNW1 said:
Raygun said:
Good riddance Wenger and fans of other teams spare us the patronising 'how we'll rue the day he leaves'
Not really a case of you'll rue the day he leaves - personally I think he'd got to the end of the road at Arsenal and it was a shame he didn't go after winning the FA Cup last year. However, the club is in a fundamentally good state financially, still has a few decent players and whoever comes in has a solid foundation on which to build. However, the good riddance, he's dragged our club down, etc, is just nonsense IMO. Only the Manchester clubs and Chelski have had more success on the pitch in the last 10 years and all have spent far more than Wenger was allowed for much of that time. My team (Leeds) was competitive with Arsenal in the late 90's and early 00's and I can tell you now I'd be delighted with the "failure" Arsenal have experienced for the last decade (as indeed would be the fans of most other clubs!). All a matter of perception I know but you haven't really had it that bad!
The football team has been weak for a long time now, they can't compete, if Wenger won't admit it there's no hope. What's the point of having a state of the art stadium if the football being played on it is on a lower level? The predictability of every time we play a big team, Wenger comes out with excuses every time.
Also all those feeling sorry for him you'll be pleased to know he's getting next season's salary as well so don't worry about having a whip round for him.
jammy-git said:
I think if he had stepped down 5-6 years ago he could have been help in a similar esteem as Fergy, albeit without the same legacy. I doubt anyone will forget the impact he had on the league after he joined Arsenal, but at the same time everyone will know he stayed on too long and was on the decline when he left.
Don't forget he inherited the back four, Seaman and Bergkamp.jammy-git said:
Clearly the club has known for some months, if not when Wenger signed a new contract last year. Hence the new recruits in management positions.
Absolutely. Very few top level managers are managers now, a lot are coaches and work in tandem with others for player recruitment. Changing the structure was the first step to preparing for post-Wenger life. Arguably before now the club hierarchy were not prepared for the vacuum that would have followed Wenger being sacked last season (or before). Says a lot for how they allowed it to stagnate however.Raygun said:
jammy-git said:
I think if he had stepped down 5-6 years ago he could have been help in a similar esteem as Fergy, albeit without the same legacy. I doubt anyone will forget the impact he had on the league after he joined Arsenal, but at the same time everyone will know he stayed on too long and was on the decline when he left.
Don't forget he inherited the back four, Seaman and Bergkamp.Regardless of Wenger inheriting a solid back four, the invincibles were an incredible achievement and he largely put together that midfield and attacking force himself, and moulded the playing style.
jammy-git said:
So? Man City, Chelsea and Utd have all shown in recent years that the manager can make all the difference. You can have a title winning squad and finish 6th, or you can have a squad that can barely scrape the top four challenge for the title or win the Champions League.
Regardless of Wenger inheriting a solid back four, the invincibles were an incredible achievement and he largely put together that midfield and attacking force himself, and moulded the playing style.
As stated above, only Keown was left by the time of the invincibles in defence... So he built that back line himself. Regardless of Wenger inheriting a solid back four, the invincibles were an incredible achievement and he largely put together that midfield and attacking force himself, and moulded the playing style.
I still stand by the fact the last 5 years may have been rubbish in the league, but still more success in silverware than spurs under what is regarded as a great manager.
RacingPete said:
jammy-git said:
I still stand by the fact the last 5 years may have been rubbish in the league, but still more success in silverware than spurs under what is regarded as a great manager.
It will soon to be 7 years since Arsenal were humiliated by Manchester United 8-2 in August 2011, he hadn't bought anyone in the transfer window because "we don't need anyone" and when it came apparent that Arsenal did need someone he did a 'Christmas Eve 4pm Special' and bought two has-been Germans just before the transfer window closed. It was at this point I came to the conclusion he was paid a huge salary by the directors by getting Arsenal into the Champions League on the minimum outlay or the man was clueless at this point in his career. Yes we went on to qualify for the Champions League, generating lots of money for the Arsenal board, yes we went out as soon as we met a decent team, rinse and repeat up until last year when we didn't qualify for the Champions League. That was the last straw for the board but gave it a bit of time, then the half empty stadium and they decided to act.Spurs manager is in 2018 a far superior manager to Wenger is in 2018 and his wage bill is a lot less than Arsenal's.
Raygun said:
RacingPete said:
Superior based on what criteria?
Because winning trophies in the last 5 years is not a criteria he is more superior on. I am truly keen to understand what people want from a manager to judge him as good.
You seem obsessed with Spurs, I'm more concerned about Arsenal.Because winning trophies in the last 5 years is not a criteria he is more superior on. I am truly keen to understand what people want from a manager to judge him as good.
Isn't it all a bit subjective. Clearly Poch is the lesser successful manager when compared to Wenger, however you could argue he's built a better team in the time he's been at Spurs, compared to the current Arsenal squad whilst also finishing above Arsenal a similar amount of times to vice versa.
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