The Official Arsenal - 14 x FA Cup winners thread - Vol 4
Discussion
cbmotorsport said:
aeropilot said:
cbmotorsport said:
Mislintat officially announced as leaving.
Seems an enormous cock up once again. One of the best scouts in world football, who's already proved himself as a fine asset to us via bargain buys like Torreira, Guendouzi and Leno.
It seems it might have been a choice between him or Emery going, as the rumour is that they haven't been able to establish any sort of appropiate working relationship......Seems an enormous cock up once again. One of the best scouts in world football, who's already proved himself as a fine asset to us via bargain buys like Torreira, Guendouzi and Leno.
cbmotorsport said:
aeropilot said:
cbmotorsport said:
Mislintat officially announced as leaving.
Seems an enormous cock up once again. One of the best scouts in world football, who's already proved himself as a fine asset to us via bargain buys like Torreira, Guendouzi and Leno.
It seems it might have been a choice between him or Emery going, as the rumour is that they haven't been able to establish any sort of appropiate working relationship......Seems an enormous cock up once again. One of the best scouts in world football, who's already proved himself as a fine asset to us via bargain buys like Torreira, Guendouzi and Leno.
Reality is Emery and Raul probably need results quicker to hold on to their jobs so they’ve knifed up Sven. So instead of going for solid long term foundations we’ve gone for the quick fix. FFS!!!!
Cheib said:
Podcast I listened to said it was Raul that’s made the power grab. He and Emery want more proven talents and Sven like finding the hidden gems that will take two or three years to c9me through to full PL level....like Guendouzzi.
Reality is Emery and Raul probably need results quicker to hold on to their jobs so they’ve knifed up Sven. So instead of going for solid long term foundations we’ve gone for the quick fix. FFS!!!!
That’s not absolute fact though. It’s just one person’s opinion. Reality is Emery and Raul probably need results quicker to hold on to their jobs so they’ve knifed up Sven. So instead of going for solid long term foundations we’ve gone for the quick fix. FFS!!!!
macushla said:
Cheib said:
Podcast I listened to said it was Raul that’s made the power grab. He and Emery want more proven talents and Sven like finding the hidden gems that will take two or three years to c9me through to full PL level....like Guendouzzi.
Reality is Emery and Raul probably need results quicker to hold on to their jobs so they’ve knifed up Sven. So instead of going for solid long term foundations we’ve gone for the quick fix. FFS!!!!
That’s not absolute fact though. It’s just one person’s opinion. Reality is Emery and Raul probably need results quicker to hold on to their jobs so they’ve knifed up Sven. So instead of going for solid long term foundations we’ve gone for the quick fix. FFS!!!!
aeropilot said:
Does fit though......especially as we knew Sven was a long termer in his outlook.
There’s always likely to be a power struggle after such a long time with one manager in place. I’m less concerned about the upheaval in the short term and would like to see what Emery can do over a few years. There have been some really good signs and some shocking ones, but I remember the horror start we had with George Graham and that didn’t turn out too bad, albeit we weren’t exactly entertained. macushla said:
Cheib said:
Podcast I listened to said it was Raul that’s made the power grab. He and Emery want more proven talents and Sven like finding the hidden gems that will take two or three years to c9me through to full PL level....like Guendouzzi.
Reality is Emery and Raul probably need results quicker to hold on to their jobs so they’ve knifed up Sven. So instead of going for solid long term foundations we’ve gone for the quick fix. FFS!!!!
That’s not absolute fact though. It’s just one person’s opinion. Reality is Emery and Raul probably need results quicker to hold on to their jobs so they’ve knifed up Sven. So instead of going for solid long term foundations we’ve gone for the quick fix. FFS!!!!
Glassman said:
It looks like management isn't really for Thierry Henry.
Fabulous player / complete ingenue at the organisational, management side of the game.To me it seemed obvious when he was playing studio critic for Sky: vast salary, but listen to what he actually was saying and it was noodle-brain stuff. £4m per season seemed to be buying bugger all insight but because it was delivered in a soothing Parisian accent he might as well have been tutoring a class on expressionist paintings for all anyone cared.
Too many freshly ex-players just want to stand on the sidelines, with snappy suit and fancy watch, and just preen on the sidelines.
Football is full of this parochialism crap though. Maybe a reason why so few Utd or Arsenal players from the last twenty odd years have had much success in management, is simply they were mainly constituents of winning teams. I mean Gabala FC? That’s really about Tony Adams management level. Nothing more. Sol “...but I’m Sol Campbell” Campbell - enough said. Ryan Giggs. Jesus. Paul Ince, the Guv’nor, stuttering his malapropisms around a changing room to bemused faces. Mark Hughes & Steve Bruce the most super adept purveyors of utter mediocrity but always beguiled as to how they’re never selected for the really top jobs...it just goes on and on.
As players they never really had to live in the footballing backwaters. Always competing for a cup or challenging in leagues. Hardly any experience in motivating a dressing room full of players who would never be in their ballpark ability-wise, never mind coming up with a tactical plan that their limited resources could actually enact.
Isn’t it more the case that the best players have never made the best managers and the best managers were rarely good players.
Goes back to Bobby Moore amd Charlton, both exceptional players, both superbly s
te managers. Current PL top dog managers (and their predecessors), none were great players, some played at a reasonable level, but weren’t the stars of their average teams.
Goes back to Bobby Moore amd Charlton, both exceptional players, both superbly s
te managers. Current PL top dog managers (and their predecessors), none were great players, some played at a reasonable level, but weren’t the stars of their average teams. macushla said:
Isn’t it more the case that the best players have never made the best managers and the best managers were rarely good players.
Goes back to Bobby Moore amd Charlton, both exceptional players, both superbly ste managers. Current PL top dog managers (and their predecessors), none were great players, some played at a reasonable level, but weren’t the stars of their average teams.
I don’t think so. I think it’s more a case of basic brainpower.Goes back to Bobby Moore amd Charlton, both exceptional players, both superbly s
te managers. Current PL top dog managers (and their predecessors), none were great players, some played at a reasonable level, but weren’t the stars of their average teams. Most average British footballers are just plain thick, right? At least with foreign players, often those who’ve encountered different cultures in their playing days, learning new languages for a start, they get to exercise more brain cells than just posing with their G-wagens on instamedia or grunting to FIFA ‘19.
Countless examples of genuinely excellent players who’ve also got the medals when in the managerial hot seat: Beckenbauer. No one can doubt his ability. He also had enough about him to shut Matthaus’ mouth up just long enough, and coerce a pretty feisty bunch of pros into a WC winning unit. Guardiola obviously. Cesare Maldini. Cruyff. Bernd Schuster. Zidane...list goes on.
In the cliquey world of British football though....list thins out. I wonder why? Guys like David Platt really seek to broaden their football education, off to Bari, Juventus, Sampdoria, wherever, then when their career is all said and done, all that nascent management capability - if harnessed properly - is tossed aside as people like Big Fat Sam grind out multi million quid paycheques for agricultural rubbish.
Now I’m not saying David Platt, as a mere example, will have ever turned out to be a top manager. We don’t know. But what we do know is we barely grow or nurture any form of capability in this area. So if you grow a subculture of footballers who get seasick when they even think of joining a foreign football club, let alone all the personal growth that might bring, then entrust in people like Marco Silva to manage your club on a fat cheque, when let’s face it, he looks like he’s lost blind without a cane, what do you expect?
I know the likes of Dan Ashworth think you can take any average mild mannered ex pro with the footballing personality of a Vectra driving rep salesman and turn them into a manager but it doesn’t quite work like that. All those PowerPoint presentations and sitting through “Leading Through Change” BS-type seminars at Bisham Abbey, do not a football manager make.
The premier league is beautiful example of the best and worst of globalisation. Just no one knows if an isolationist approach to running British football for the last 25 years would have produced any better results at highlighting at least one useful British manager...
Simply, there are oads of excellent players who’ve also done well at management. The British game is an outlier however in looking for examples - and that’s more an IQ issue. I mean I loved Bryan Robson as a player, Captain Marvel, as much as anyone. But put him and Jorge Valdano in the same room together. It’d be a one way conversation when it comes to hearing anything new and inspiring about the game of football.
Good discussion, but I’m still not convinced. I probably oversimplified, as it’s late and didn’t want to write War and Peace. There are some talented foreign managers who were platers, but let’s be honest, most of us would fancy winning trophies with the players and money that Pep’s had throughout his career. Two horse race in Spain, one horse race in Germany and several billion quid plus by far the best squad in England.
We’ve imported a lot of foreign managers since Villa broke the British stranglehold with Venglos. A few have been successful, most haven’t. None of the superstar players have really delivered as managers no matter their country of origin, or life experience. I’m still firmly of the view that top players struggle to transition to top managers. The reason is one you’ve stated and it’s that they struggle to understand that there are players with far less skill or ability than them.
We’ve imported a lot of foreign managers since Villa broke the British stranglehold with Venglos. A few have been successful, most haven’t. None of the superstar players have really delivered as managers no matter their country of origin, or life experience. I’m still firmly of the view that top players struggle to transition to top managers. The reason is one you’ve stated and it’s that they struggle to understand that there are players with far less skill or ability than them.
tigerkoi said:
Glassman said:
It looks like management isn't really for Thierry Henry.
Fabulous player / complete ingenue at the organisational, management side of the game.To me it seemed obvious when he was playing studio critic for Sky: vast salary, but listen to what he actually was saying and it was noodle-brain stuff. £4m per season seemed to be buying bugger all insight but because it was delivered in a soothing Parisian accent he might as well have been tutoring a class on expressionist paintings for all anyone cared.
Too many freshly ex-players just want to stand on the sidelines, with snappy suit and fancy watch, and just preen on the sidelines.
Football is full of this parochialism crap though. Maybe a reason why so few Utd or Arsenal players from the last twenty odd years have had much success in management, is simply they were mainly constituents of winning teams. I mean Gabala FC? That’s really about Tony Adams management level. Nothing more. Sol “...but I’m Sol Campbell” Campbell - enough said. Ryan Giggs. Jesus. Paul Ince, the Guv’nor, stuttering his malapropisms around a changing room to bemused faces. Mark Hughes & Steve Bruce the most super adept purveyors of utter mediocrity but always beguiled as to how they’re never selected for the really top jobs...it just goes on and on.
As players they never really had to live in the footballing backwaters. Always competing for a cup or challenging in leagues. Hardly any experience in motivating a dressing room full of players who would never be in their ballpark ability-wise, never mind coming up with a tactical plan that their limited resources could actually enact.
I suppose, the only one to sort of buck that trend in recent years (albeit not that well at club level) has been Southgate.
Will be interesting to see how Gerrard and Lampard's managerial careers get on over the next few years.
Cupramax said:
Been impressed by what I’ve seen of Lampard
Also, when he did a bit of TV punditry before taking the Derby job, I was equally impressed with his intelligent and technical remarks which seemed at an elevated level above the usual recently ex-footballer pundits that are employed these days.
I have a feeling he's going to be the one to watch in the coming years.
How are we all feeling for tonight? I would have been very doom and gloom about it before the Chelsea match, but maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised. I know that a few on here aren't really fans of the smaller Cups like the League and FA Cup, but I think they're still very valuable things for a winning mentality and squad morale.
Hoping for a win tonight, but I don't think we'll stop them scoring. 3-1 or 3-2 to the Arsenal.
Hoping for a win tonight, but I don't think we'll stop them scoring. 3-1 or 3-2 to the Arsenal.
I see we’re taking flak about killing the FA Cup. It’s a bit harsh to give us grief about the kickoff date and time, but how have we got away with reducing the ticket allocation? I thought one of the key parts of the FA Cup was the extra away support at the ground making it a bit more lively.
macushla said:
I see we’re taking flak about killing the FA Cup. It’s a bit harsh to give us grief about the kickoff date and time, but how have we got away with reducing the ticket allocation? I thought one of the key parts of the FA Cup was the extra away support at the ground making it a bit more lively.
I think in some big rivalry games the allocation is reduced somewhat for away fans, similar happened against Spurs a few years ago at the Emirates. They'll be particularly cautious tonight because it's a late kick off, so there's plenty of time for alcohol to be consumed meaning potential for trouble amongst fans before/after the game.
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