The Official Arsenal - 14 x FA Cup winners thread - Vol 4
Discussion
Black can man said:
Are these stories true about Henrikh Mkhitaryan not being allowed into Azerbaijan for the Europa final ?
What kind of organisation gives countries like this prestige events ?
What a f
king money grabbing shambles Uefa is .
I cant believe in this day and age theyre being allowed to get away with this. Can you imagine the media histeria and shaming that would go on if he wasnt being allowed to go because of his skin colour or if he was gay? UEFA are corrupt to the core.What kind of organisation gives countries like this prestige events ?
What a f
king money grabbing shambles Uefa is .I know it’s a popular narrative to suggest that the likes of UEFA and FIFA are completely corrupt and will do anything to swindle the proud, upstanding, English game of any opportunity it gets...but sometimes that’s just a little stupidity perpetuated by some zealous Daily Express hack.
1) the decision was made in mid 2017
2) UEFAs mission statement is to “promote, protect and develop” European football at all levels and as far and wide as possible
3) if the venues were restricted to just the countries that seem to be providing finalists over the last decade and a half, then you’d be left with just Spain, England, Italy and Germany
Football in Europe isn’t just about Engerrrland. And nor should it be. After all keeping finals as the preserve of the big four league states would only be hoarding the money in a narrow area, against the ideals of European football, and additionally it’s good to get out and about.
Yes Baku is a pain to get to, and President Aliyev isn’t one to play about, but pandering to already rich clubs of the Premier League isn’t something that should be perpetuated either.
Just deal with it!
1) the decision was made in mid 2017
2) UEFAs mission statement is to “promote, protect and develop” European football at all levels and as far and wide as possible
3) if the venues were restricted to just the countries that seem to be providing finalists over the last decade and a half, then you’d be left with just Spain, England, Italy and Germany
Football in Europe isn’t just about Engerrrland. And nor should it be. After all keeping finals as the preserve of the big four league states would only be hoarding the money in a narrow area, against the ideals of European football, and additionally it’s good to get out and about.
Yes Baku is a pain to get to, and President Aliyev isn’t one to play about, but pandering to already rich clubs of the Premier League isn’t something that should be perpetuated either.
Just deal with it!
tigerkoi said:
I know it’s a popular narrative to suggest that the likes of UEFA and FIFA are completely corrupt and will do anything to swindle the proud, upstanding, English game of any opportunity it gets...but sometimes that’s just a little stupidity perpetuated by some zealous Daily Express hack.
1) the decision was made in mid 2017
2) UEFAs mission statement is to “promote, protect and develop” European football at all levels and as far and wide as possible
3) if the venues were restricted to just the countries that seem to be providing finalists over the last decade and a half, then you’d be left with just Spain, England, Italy and Germany
Football in Europe isn’t just about Engerrrland. And nor should it be. After all keeping finals as the preserve of the big four league states would only be hoarding the money in a narrow area, against the ideals of European football, and additionally it’s good to get out and about.
Yes Baku is a pain to get to, and President Aliyev isn’t one to play about, but pandering to already rich clubs of the Premier League isn’t something that should be perpetuated either.
Just deal with it!
But you didn't mention the reason people are angry, they are not letting in a first team player from one of the finalist teams because of his nationality. That's a f1) the decision was made in mid 2017
2) UEFAs mission statement is to “promote, protect and develop” European football at all levels and as far and wide as possible
3) if the venues were restricted to just the countries that seem to be providing finalists over the last decade and a half, then you’d be left with just Spain, England, Italy and Germany
Football in Europe isn’t just about Engerrrland. And nor should it be. After all keeping finals as the preserve of the big four league states would only be hoarding the money in a narrow area, against the ideals of European football, and additionally it’s good to get out and about.
Yes Baku is a pain to get to, and President Aliyev isn’t one to play about, but pandering to already rich clubs of the Premier League isn’t something that should be perpetuated either.
Just deal with it!
king disgrace. As someone above said, if it was due to his skin colour there would (rightly) be uproar. The ticket allocation is a load of crap too. 10% of the stadiums capacity for each team?? That's just insane.
tigerkoi said:
I know it’s a popular narrative to suggest that the likes of UEFA and FIFA are completely corrupt and will do anything to swindle the proud, upstanding, English game of any opportunity it gets...but sometimes that’s just a little stupidity perpetuated by some zealous Daily Express hack.
1) the decision was made in mid 2017
2) UEFAs mission statement is to “promote, protect and develop” European football at all levels and as far and wide as possible
3) if the venues were restricted to just the countries that seem to be providing finalists over the last decade and a half, then you’d be left with just Spain, England, Italy and Germany
Football in Europe isn’t just about Engerrrland. And nor should it be. After all keeping finals as the preserve of the big four league states would only be hoarding the money in a narrow area, against the ideals of European football, and additionally it’s good to get out and about.
Yes Baku is a pain to get to, and President Aliyev isn’t one to play about, but pandering to already rich clubs of the Premier League isn’t something that should be perpetuated either.
Just deal with it!
Hey look over there, it’s the point you’re missing.1) the decision was made in mid 2017
2) UEFAs mission statement is to “promote, protect and develop” European football at all levels and as far and wide as possible
3) if the venues were restricted to just the countries that seem to be providing finalists over the last decade and a half, then you’d be left with just Spain, England, Italy and Germany
Football in Europe isn’t just about Engerrrland. And nor should it be. After all keeping finals as the preserve of the big four league states would only be hoarding the money in a narrow area, against the ideals of European football, and additionally it’s good to get out and about.
Yes Baku is a pain to get to, and President Aliyev isn’t one to play about, but pandering to already rich clubs of the Premier League isn’t something that should be perpetuated either.
Just deal with it!
I don’t think anyone would disagree that events like this should be spread around Europe, it is after all a European competition
But to not allow a player to travel because of nationality? That’s insane and that an organisation like UEFA allow it is appalling.
Can you imagine if the final was in London and we said no Argentines could travel here to play? Or no Spanish players could?
And that’s before considering the travel arrangements or ticket issues...
leglessAlex said:
tigerkoi said:
I know it’s a popular narrative to suggest that the likes of UEFA and FIFA are completely corrupt and will do anything to swindle the proud, upstanding, English game of any opportunity it gets...but sometimes that’s just a little stupidity perpetuated by some zealous Daily Express hack.
1) the decision was made in mid 2017
2) UEFAs mission statement is to “promote, protect and develop” European football at all levels and as far and wide as possible
3) if the venues were restricted to just the countries that seem to be providing finalists over the last decade and a half, then you’d be left with just Spain, England, Italy and Germany
Football in Europe isn’t just about Engerrrland. And nor should it be. After all keeping finals as the preserve of the big four league states would only be hoarding the money in a narrow area, against the ideals of European football, and additionally it’s good to get out and about.
Yes Baku is a pain to get to, and President Aliyev isn’t one to play about, but pandering to already rich clubs of the Premier League isn’t something that should be perpetuated either.
Just deal with it!
But you didn't mention the reason people are angry, they are not letting in a first team player from one of the finalist teams because of his nationality. That's a f1) the decision was made in mid 2017
2) UEFAs mission statement is to “promote, protect and develop” European football at all levels and as far and wide as possible
3) if the venues were restricted to just the countries that seem to be providing finalists over the last decade and a half, then you’d be left with just Spain, England, Italy and Germany
Football in Europe isn’t just about Engerrrland. And nor should it be. After all keeping finals as the preserve of the big four league states would only be hoarding the money in a narrow area, against the ideals of European football, and additionally it’s good to get out and about.
Yes Baku is a pain to get to, and President Aliyev isn’t one to play about, but pandering to already rich clubs of the Premier League isn’t something that should be perpetuated either.
Just deal with it!
king disgrace. As someone above said, if it was due to his skin colour there would (rightly) be uproar. The ticket allocation is a load of crap too. 10% of the stadiums capacity for each team?? That's just insane.
In the nicest possible way I don’t think loads of people are sitting around a Swiss based organisation analysing all the teams that will participate in one of the 20+ competitions it runs and find that of ALL the permutations there’d be a finalist team with a player from one of the most obscure countries on earth, where the final would be played in a country that specific player would be considered persona non grata.
Seriously.
Banks have that sort of computational firepower in their dark pool operations but UEFA don’t have actuaries and quants sitting around doing that sort of analysis. Anyway, they’re about promoting the game, not running some international crèche.
It’s not Mkhitaryan’s fault he’s literally the only Armenian footballer of note (ever) and just a quirk of life that he’s playing for a club that somehow got to a final of a competition most of its fans couldn’t have given a fig about until they recently looked at just how barren the trophy run has been lately.
tigerkoi said:
UEFA is made up of interests for 55 nations.
In the nicest possible way I don’t think loads of people are sitting around a Swiss based organisation analysing all the teams that will participate in one of the 20+ competitions it runs and find that of ALL the permutations there’d be a finalist team with a player from one of the most obscure countries on earth, where the final would be played in a country that specific player would be considered persona non grata.
Seriously.
Banks have that sort of computational firepower in their dark pool operations but UEFA don’t have actuaries and quants sitting around doing that sort of analysis. Anyway, they’re about promoting the game, not running some international crèche.
It’s not Mkhitaryan’s fault he’s literally the only Armenian footballer of note (ever) and just a quirk of life that he’s playing for a club that somehow got to a final of a competition most of its fans couldn’t have given a fig about until they recently looked at just how barren the trophy run has been lately.
But if they are indeed about promoting the game, is it not in their interest to make sure players are not forcibly omitted?In the nicest possible way I don’t think loads of people are sitting around a Swiss based organisation analysing all the teams that will participate in one of the 20+ competitions it runs and find that of ALL the permutations there’d be a finalist team with a player from one of the most obscure countries on earth, where the final would be played in a country that specific player would be considered persona non grata.
Seriously.
Banks have that sort of computational firepower in their dark pool operations but UEFA don’t have actuaries and quants sitting around doing that sort of analysis. Anyway, they’re about promoting the game, not running some international crèche.
It’s not Mkhitaryan’s fault he’s literally the only Armenian footballer of note (ever) and just a quirk of life that he’s playing for a club that somehow got to a final of a competition most of its fans couldn’t have given a fig about until they recently looked at just how barren the trophy run has been lately.
I appreciate that they are attempting to spread the money from football around, and I don't disagree with them attempting to do so, but I believe that the issues surrounding the number of tickets and Mhki not being able to play indicates that UEFA have made a very, very poor decision.
leglessAlex said:
tigerkoi said:
UEFA is made up of interests for 55 nations.
In the nicest possible way I don’t think loads of people are sitting around a Swiss based organisation analysing all the teams that will participate in one of the 20+ competitions it runs and find that of ALL the permutations there’d be a finalist team with a player from one of the most obscure countries on earth, where the final would be played in a country that specific player would be considered persona non grata.
Seriously.
Banks have that sort of computational firepower in their dark pool operations but UEFA don’t have actuaries and quants sitting around doing that sort of analysis. Anyway, they’re about promoting the game, not running some international crèche.
It’s not Mkhitaryan’s fault he’s literally the only Armenian footballer of note (ever) and just a quirk of life that he’s playing for a club that somehow got to a final of a competition most of its fans couldn’t have given a fig about until they recently looked at just how barren the trophy run has been lately.
But if they are indeed about promoting the game, is it not in their interest to make sure players are not forcibly omitted?In the nicest possible way I don’t think loads of people are sitting around a Swiss based organisation analysing all the teams that will participate in one of the 20+ competitions it runs and find that of ALL the permutations there’d be a finalist team with a player from one of the most obscure countries on earth, where the final would be played in a country that specific player would be considered persona non grata.
Seriously.
Banks have that sort of computational firepower in their dark pool operations but UEFA don’t have actuaries and quants sitting around doing that sort of analysis. Anyway, they’re about promoting the game, not running some international crèche.
It’s not Mkhitaryan’s fault he’s literally the only Armenian footballer of note (ever) and just a quirk of life that he’s playing for a club that somehow got to a final of a competition most of its fans couldn’t have given a fig about until they recently looked at just how barren the trophy run has been lately.
I appreciate that they are attempting to spread the money from football around, and I don't disagree with them attempting to do so, but I believe that the issues surrounding the number of tickets and Mhki not being able to play indicates that UEFA have made a very, very poor decision.
I don’t necessarily agree with how the wider world sometimes works - realpolitik is just that, however - but we in the West certainly can’t go around espousing what’s right or wrong anymore.
If anything, the Mkhitaryan affair is a positive one to have. UEFA for certain have a tough hot potato, but isn’t it good that it highlights that not all nations do get along and that on something like this, can’t something be done to let the poor guy play?
Anyway, there’s nothing to be said that back channels haven’t or aren’t being exhausted to see if Azerbaijan will relent - but to put this all on UEFA is a bit weak. The world isn’t perfect.
As for the ticket situation, flip the argument on its head: were often told that the Premier League and the top clubs have fans all around the world. Why should it be that only fans in the clubs home country get to see their players in an international tournament? Notwithstanding that the clubs stand to benefit selling more shirts and merchandise to an international crowd, as well as the view that hardly many U.K. fans would trek out to Baku in the first place.
I’ve got properties in London. Does that mean my season tickets are more my preserve than they should be of someone who lives in Walsall? Clubs like Arsenal are international property these days - that’s the fiscal, harsh, reality of it.
tigerkoi said:
I know it’s a popular narrative to suggest that the likes of UEFA and FIFA are completely corrupt and will do anything to swindle the proud, upstanding, English game of any opportunity it gets...but sometimes that’s just a little stupidity perpetuated by some zealous Daily Express hack.
1) the decision was made in mid 2017
2) UEFAs mission statement is to “promote, protect and develop” European football at all levels and as far and wide as possible
3) if the venues were restricted to just the countries that seem to be providing finalists over the last decade and a half, then you’d be left with just Spain, England, Italy and Germany
Football in Europe isn’t just about Engerrrland. And nor should it be. After all keeping finals as the preserve of the big four league states would only be hoarding the money in a narrow area, against the ideals of European football, and additionally it’s good to get out and about.
Yes Baku is a pain to get to, and President Aliyev isn’t one to play about, but pandering to already rich clubs of the Premier League isn’t something that should be perpetuated either.
Just deal with it!
It's a fair point - if you hadn't built a strawman to attack.1) the decision was made in mid 2017
2) UEFAs mission statement is to “promote, protect and develop” European football at all levels and as far and wide as possible
3) if the venues were restricted to just the countries that seem to be providing finalists over the last decade and a half, then you’d be left with just Spain, England, Italy and Germany
Football in Europe isn’t just about Engerrrland. And nor should it be. After all keeping finals as the preserve of the big four league states would only be hoarding the money in a narrow area, against the ideals of European football, and additionally it’s good to get out and about.
Yes Baku is a pain to get to, and President Aliyev isn’t one to play about, but pandering to already rich clubs of the Premier League isn’t something that should be perpetuated either.
Just deal with it!
Nobody is saying it should be in England but there are nearer countries that could have been chosen outside of the big 4 countries once the finalists were known ie Portugal, Belgium, Holland or even at a push the Scandiwegian countries.
The game is firstly about the fans thereafter 'spreading of the gospel'. This is about as far away from the fans of both clubs as you can get in Europe and the transport links are atrocious. By all means hold the events in far flung places but only if the fans providing the clubs and UEFA with an income can get there in reasonable time and at reasonable cost - hiking through the Caucasus Mountains (not really but it makes the point) to see your team play in a cup final is not reasonable.
To be fair, I have serious reservations as to why Azerbaijan is in UEFA as officially and geographically it's in Asia - but then Israel isn't in Europe it's in the Middle East and they somehow manage to be part of UEFA so hey-ho.
LoonyTunes said:
The game is firstly about the fans
Wrong.The game is firstly about making money, or rather more likely about lining the pockets of UEFA officials.
LoonyTunes said:
This is about as far away from the fans of both clubs as you can get in Europe and the transport links are atrocious.
This location was about as far away from the fans of any of the teams that were likely to get to the final.tigerkoi said:
UEFA is made up of interests for 55 nations.
In the nicest possible way I don’t think loads of people are sitting around a Swiss based organisation analysing all the teams that will participate in one of the 20+ competitions it runs and find that of ALL the permutations there’d be a finalist team with a player from one of the most obscure countries on earth, where the final would be played in a country that specific player would be considered persona non grata.
No, but anyone with double digit brain cells in UEFA could right a simple contractual condition: In the nicest possible way I don’t think loads of people are sitting around a Swiss based organisation analysing all the teams that will participate in one of the 20+ competitions it runs and find that of ALL the permutations there’d be a finalist team with a player from one of the most obscure countries on earth, where the final would be played in a country that specific player would be considered persona non grata.
you can only host the final if you permit all players, coaching staff and officials free entry/exit and ensure their safety, regardless of race, colour, sexuality or nationality
Edited by Adam B on Friday 17th May 10:58
Adam B said:
tigerkoi said:
UEFA is made up of interests for 55 nations.
In the nicest possible way I don’t think loads of people are sitting around a Swiss based organisation analysing all the teams that will participate in one of the 20+ competitions it runs and find that of ALL the permutations there’d be a finalist team with a player from one of the most obscure countries on earth, where the final would be played in a country that specific player would be considered persona non grata.
No, but anyone with double digit brain cells in UEFA could right a simple contractual condition: In the nicest possible way I don’t think loads of people are sitting around a Swiss based organisation analysing all the teams that will participate in one of the 20+ competitions it runs and find that of ALL the permutations there’d be a finalist team with a player from one of the most obscure countries on earth, where the final would be played in a country that specific player would be considered persona non grata.
you can only host the final if you permit all players, coaching staff and officials free entry/exit and ensure their safety, regardless of race, colour, sexuality or nationality
Edited by Adam B on Friday 17th May 10:58
Look, UEFA want to promote the game using “goodwill and trust” first and foremost, and like I say in another post, they’re not about running an international crèche and poking their noses in international affairs. Writing a clause like you suggest will only inject them into some or others countries politics and where does that end?
Additionally - like I say - why do people think UEFA aren’t using back channels to see if the Azerbaijanis aren’t able to relent in this case? Rather than brandishing iron legal positions around their 55 constituent associations maybe some soft power is better exercised at times like this. I can imagine there are some things the pompous English FA would be pretty cheesed off about if told what to do by UEFA every five minutes.
UEFA aren’t there to tell how a country should behave via their individual FAs forcing action upwards within their own countries. A) that would be untenable pressure on what’s just a sporting organisation and B) who sets the moral high ground? The rich countries of the west? Pffffttt...
So it’s back to goodwill and trust you lean.
jflower said:
Glassman said:
Carl_Manchester said:
A Good destination for him, i wish him the best.
Shall we crowdfund the flight ?
If I win the Euromillions tonight I'll even help with the transfer fee. Shall we crowdfund the flight ?
cbmotorsport said:
Glassman said:
Breaking transfer news...
Milan interested in Mustafi.
Is Gazidis trying to commit career suicide? Signing him once is a mistake, twice is criminal. Milan interested in Mustafi.
How about this for another giggle...guess who’s sister works for UEFA?
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